logo
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

2 Pages12>
Options
View
Go to last post Go to first unread
Offline EI  
#1 Posted : Thursday, December 6, 2007 7:56:32 AM(UTC)
EI
Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 98

I was driving home last night and I was listening in on an 'OPEN MIKE' on a biblically based show. A Pastor takes calls from the public and I found several of his comments interesting to say the least.

1. He actually said that people's souls would be destroyed! That it seem that the teaching of either Heaven or Hell has been wrong and that it seems that through scripturek, people that follow false doctrines that have crept up into some churches will have thier souls destroyed. this is very interesting to hear from a 'mainstream' pastor. He openly admitted that some doctrines have been wrong and that 'THE LORD'(well, I guess you cant expect Rome to be built in a day :) ) has been revealing things as the day of 'reckoning' approaches. Which brings me to his other comment that i found interesting...

2. He said BLUNTLY that their is a timeline in the 'BIBLE'. This was intriguing again, coming from a mainstream pastor, HOWEVER, he stated that this timeline has revealed that the rapture will occur on MAY 21 2011 and that the world as we know it will come to an end on OCTOBER 21 2011. Unfortunately he did not offer any scriptural reasons, proofs of why he felt that this is what the timeline says and has been revealed to the churches in which he affiliates himself with. I would like to delve back into scripture, YY, and see why he may be saying these two dates that he adamantly disseminated to the masses. His months correspond with Sivan, Feast of Weeks, but he is saying that the Rapture will occur in this month. The other corresponds with Tishra. I wonder what calendar he is using to come to his conclusion?

3. This will really get you wondering. HE said that that the tribulation started in 1988?? Yes, that is what he said and that is what he is telling countless 'Christians' who are listening to his show.



NOW, it is not about whether he is WRONG. I dont want to get into that discussion yet. however, the bigger question is what is he reading and could be interpreting to lead him and the churches that he represents to come to this conclusion? Are there any thoughts ????
Offline rs  
#2 Posted : Thursday, December 6, 2007 8:37:22 AM(UTC)
rs
Joined: 7/31/2007(UTC)
Posts: 35
Location: Dove Canyon, CA

I think the Mayans have a similar date for the end of the world and their calendar ends at that time. They base their date on some type of astronomical convergance.


Offline Tiffany  
#3 Posted : Thursday, December 6, 2007 10:09:31 AM(UTC)
Tiffany
Joined: 6/7/2007(UTC)
Posts: 185
Woman

I saw a guy at Walmart preaching the same thing about 2011, so when I asked him about it he wanted to show all of this scriptural proof for it, and I think it was based in some sort of Jehovah's Witness teaching. But I could be wrong, but I have heard of it before.
Offline coleridge  
#4 Posted : Thursday, December 6, 2007 12:33:21 PM(UTC)
coleridge
Joined: 12/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 74
Location: birmingham, al

rs... the mayan calendar is all about 2012... the end of the world. i saw some program about it on the history channel or something
let YHWH be true, and every man a liar
Offline kp  
#5 Posted : Thursday, December 6, 2007 12:39:18 PM(UTC)
kp
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

Oh, good grief. (1) Yes, the Bible clearly teaches that SOME souls will be destroyed (a fact blatantly ignored by mainstream christianity), but that's not a universal across-the-board phenomenon: there will be other souls enjoying eternal bliss, and still others experiencing everlasting torment. Yada and I have both written extensively on this.

(2) There is a timeline implied in the Bible, and that timeline includes a plethora of evidence that demonstrates that the rapture will most definitely occur on the Feast of Trumpets, which on earth occurs in the fall. (I don't know when it falls on his planet.)

(3) The Tribulation began in 1988? It's only going to last 2,520 days, fella. Seven "times" of 360 days each. Ending at the Feast of Tabernacles. 2033, unless I'm wrong about some very fundamental principles.

I think what we have here is one more guy "crying wolf." Near the beginning of my Appendix on Chronology in Future History, I include a long list of previous wrong guesses, all summed up with the observation, "You weren't listening to what God actually said, were you, boys and girls?" By the time the big day actually does roll around, the world will be completely unready for it. WOLF! By the way, I heard on a TV show that Nostradamus named 2012, and as we all know, ol' Nos is never wrong, only misunderstood. lol.

kp
Offline gammafighter  
#6 Posted : Thursday, December 6, 2007 6:05:56 PM(UTC)
gammafighter
Joined: 11/6/2007(UTC)
Posts: 114
Man
Location: Hilo, Hawaii

Yea, mayans said December 23, 2012.
Too bad. I guess Tammuz won't see his birthday that year :(
User is suspended until 4/7/2030 11:52:02 PM(UTC) YahWarrior  
#7 Posted : Saturday, December 8, 2007 10:49:05 AM(UTC)
YahWarrior
Joined: 12/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 40
Man
Location: Florida

I think that the calculated date and time for the Mayan End of Days is Wed 12/21/12 @ 6:12am. The Mayans were star gazers and used the sun, moon, and the stars to calculate this time, so they were woshippers of the host of heaven. Although Yah has set the stars as a cosmic clock the Mayans are far from being inspired with Set Apart wisdom to interpret that clock correctly. Whilst their wisdom might be acurate in some things this wisdom is not from above, but is natural, earthly, and demonic. When one considers the 'blood cult' the Mayans were steeped in, we know the source of their inspiration. Alexander Hislop in the Two Babylons shows that the Mayan influence was without a doubt from a Babylonian source, therefore their inspiration is Nimrudic and from the fallen angels who no doubt taught Nimrod and Semiramis, who are earthly representatives of Baal and Astarte, two of the fallen angels, whose fallen angelic names as reported by Enoch were Semyaza, and most likely Tamiel. It is my belief that Nimrod and Semiramis were vessels for the fallen, and these princes of evil lived in them. Like Hitler who was notorious for mass persuasiveness with a demonic power, no doubt both Nimrod and Semiramis also had this power to persuade.

Quote:
“And they were in all two hundred; who descended in the days of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it.” Enoch 6:6


Yah Bless!

YahWarrior
Harry
Offline Heretic Steve  
#8 Posted : Monday, December 10, 2007 10:09:59 AM(UTC)
Heretic Steve
Joined: 9/26/2007(UTC)
Posts: 258
Location: ohio

Hahahahahaha, "Well, there they go again". Don't ya just love ol' Guv Ron's one liners, (yes I paraphrased a tad). Oct. 21, 2011? This guy talked to a publisher yet? Kinda reminds me of Hal "buy my books" Lindsey. According to the "Holy Spirit", at least that's what Hal said, it was going to be all over but the shoutin' in 1988. He made that assertion in his book "The Late Great Planet Earth" which he wrote back in the early-mid '70's. Sold 20 million copies right off the bat and still sells 10,000 copies a year, which just goes to show that there is indeed one born every minute. According to the NYT's best seller list, he was the biggest seller of books in the decade of the '70's. I've never seen his explanation for this rather blatant, to say the least, inaccuracy. Sure would be interesting to know how he spinned that whopper when nothing occurred.
So far as the Mayan calendar goes, they apparently had their troubles with predicting the future too. I understand that their prophetic gurus had made numerous "end of the world" predictions. I guess in a sense their world did end when the spanish showed up. However, the Mayan prophets somehow managed to miss that date.
If not us, who? If not now, when?
Offline bitnet  
#9 Posted : Friday, January 4, 2008 3:37:48 AM(UTC)
bitnet
Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,120

Speaking of Mayans, something else related to Central America -- anyone watched the movie Apocalypto? Watch it and get shocked by the bloodlust. Perhaps cultures like these are the reason Yahweh sends in others to destroy them. Makes me wonder what happened in the land of the Khmers as well. Both cultures were incredible stone builders and conquerors with insatiable appetites for their neighbours' possessions.

But coming back to the prophesying pastor, one of the first methods to discern whether he speaks the truth is to see whether he actually keeps the Sabbaths. If they claim to be the Creator's prophet and minister but do not, there is hardly any reason to see why they should have the truth. Having said that, it does not preclude the possibility that a passionate, serious student of Scripture prepared to be corrected could come across a verse or chapter that could be an epiphany that could lead on to more nuggets. What they do next with that information normally determines whether they walk in The Way. More often than not, they get into the Babylonian system and make money out of their followers. Sad but true.
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
Offline landisbs  
#10 Posted : Friday, January 25, 2008 6:52:35 AM(UTC)
landisbs
Joined: 1/25/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1

If you would like more information regarding the biblical timeline of history, here are some links:

www.timehasanend.org
http://pablo33319.home.c.../Biblical%20Calendar.htm

Since the Bible is 100% reliable and the only place to find truth, there is no question that the end will be as you have stated. The Mayan calendar has nothing to do with anything. All of this information is available completely free. No one is using this information to 'get rich'.

Mat 10:8 KJV - Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.


May God have mercy on us all...
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#11 Posted : Friday, January 25, 2008 8:07:52 AM(UTC)
Robskiwarrior
Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,470
Man
Location: England

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
interesting site Landisbs - although a little miscalculated :)
Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Offline kp  
#12 Posted : Friday, January 25, 2008 10:57:54 AM(UTC)
kp
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

A little miscalculated? A twenty-three year Tribulation? The church age ended in 1988? I was there. Trust me, it never happened; I would have noticed. But as I continue to poke around the Torah, I keep finding confirmations of the 7,000 year plan I first noticed when researching for FH in the most unlikely places. Like this: something I recently wrote for Volume 2 of The Owner's Manual under Precept #719...

Quote:
...As long as we’re scratching this far beneath the surface, allow me to digress a bit. If we add up all the measurements, we find that the Tabernacle was to be thirty cubits long (divided between twenty for the Holy Place and ten for the Most Holy), ten cubits wide, and ten tall. The dimensions of the Most Holy Place (ten by ten by ten cubits, or one thousand cubic cubits) have led not a few commentators to see a reference to the one-thousand-year Millennial reign of Yahshua the Messiah. I agree, but if it’s true, they haven’t gone far enough. If the dimension of the Most Holy Place is a chronological metaphor, then the whole Tabernacle complex should present a timeline of what the Tabernacle represents: the Plan of Yahweh. And I believe it does.

Backing up one step, we find that the Holy Place, the room through which the Priest must past in order to reach the Most Holy, is to be twenty cubits long, ten cubits wide, and ten cubits high, or 2,000 cubic cubits. This room is the home of God’s provision (the table of showbread), light (the seven-branched golden lamp), and prayer (the altar of incense). Chronologically, it represents the age of Yahshua’s called-out assembly, the ekklesia, comprised of every believer since His resurrection, both Jew and gentile. (We are those whose sins have been atoned at the altar and whose works and walk have been cleansed at the bronze laver standing just outside the Tabernacle.) Using the same formula as before, we’re led to the conclusion that the Holy Place in this context represents a time duration of precisely 2,000 years, beginning at 33 A.D., the date of the passion. That means that the Millennial Kingdom (indicated by the dimensions of the Most Holy Place) will commence in 2033, only a quarter century away as I write these words. If you’ve read my previous books, you probably won’t find this surprising. I’ve arrived at the same stunning conclusion from several different lines of inquiry—although I’d never stumbled across this particular one before. Frankly, I’ve gotten to the point where I have to ask myself, “Am I just seeing what I want to see? Am I subliminally manipulating the data to achieve a predetermined result?” As if in answer to these troubling self doubts, Yahweh provided yet another confirmation of this chronological theory elsewhere in the Tabernacle specifications. If you can’t stand the suspense, scan down to Precept #732.


Okay, I haven't written #732 yet. The upshot of the thing is that the ground plan of the Tabernacle (Read: "Plan of God") courtyard is 50 cubits wide by 100 cubits long---5000 square cubits. Following the same formula and observing the millennial milestones provided (and emphasized) by Yahweh, this means that "5,000 years" is a significant number in the plan of God. And it is: it is the precise duration of God's covenant with mankind, beginning with Abraham's sacrifice of Isaac on Moriah, and ending at the conclusion of the Millennial reign of Yahshua. In other words, all of this confirms and verifies everything Yada and I have observed about Yahweh's 7000-year plan---which in turn means that the Millennial reign will begin in 2033 on the Feast of Tabernacles.

kp
Offline Mike_Browell  
#13 Posted : Friday, January 25, 2008 2:19:42 PM(UTC)
Mike_Browell
Joined: 1/19/2008(UTC)
Posts: 51
Man
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Peace and Happiness Everyone,

KP that is absolutely amazing. I thank Yahweh continually for the gift he has bestowed upon the Ekklesia in you and Yada. I pray that his Set-Apart Spirit will continue to bless you in wisdom as well as in your lives. Thank you for your heart felt and in-depth study of our Father's Scriptures.

Your Loving Brother,
Michael Browell
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#14 Posted : Friday, January 25, 2008 2:58:25 PM(UTC)
Robskiwarrior
Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,470
Man
Location: England

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
kp wrote:
A little miscalculated?


sorry - that's my Englishness coming out again ;D Where would this forum be without my dry humour?!

anyway - back to topic!!!
Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Offline MZ  
#15 Posted : Saturday, January 26, 2008 9:47:21 AM(UTC)
MZ
Joined: 1/20/2008(UTC)
Posts: 20
Location: Boron, CA

kp,
That was fascinating, but it's like dangling a carrot in front of a horses nose. Any idea when volume 2 will come out, or at least some of it?
Blessings,
Madeline
Offline kp  
#16 Posted : Saturday, January 26, 2008 1:32:07 PM(UTC)
kp
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

Um, sorry about that, MZ. I emailed a couple of chapters to Joe, our beloved webmaster, some time ago, but I guess they got lost in the shuffle. Looks like I'm going to have to bug him about it. As far as my progress is concerned, I'm halfway through chapter 4, out of a planned eight.

kp
Offline gammafighter  
#17 Posted : Sunday, January 27, 2008 9:19:30 AM(UTC)
gammafighter
Joined: 11/6/2007(UTC)
Posts: 114
Man
Location: Hilo, Hawaii

You know, some people say that it's impossible for anyone to know when the harpazo/rapture, tribulation, and return of the Yahushua will start specifically for the reason that if you could predict it, no one would get ready until right before they knew it was going to happen. This topic renders that point moot. Like church doctrines about everything from baptism to beards, it seems like every group has their own theories about the end times. No matter how much evidence one prediction (including the correct one) has going for it, there will always be many many groups that disagree.

No offense to you, KP. I'm not trying to diminish anything about your work, but there are a lot of End Times predictions out there. All anyone can really do regarding the end times (besides ignoring the topic...or studying it yourself and writing a book on it) is study the various beliefs and decide for yourself which seems the most likely and logical.
Offline kp  
#18 Posted : Sunday, January 27, 2008 9:43:55 AM(UTC)
kp
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

No offense taken, gammafighter. And that's really all I did: "studied it for myself and wrote a book about it." I'm not prepared to state much of anything dogmatically about the date of the rapture (as you know), but I keep inadvertently stumbling across these subtle confirmations of what appear to be chronological metaphors for the age of the ekklesia. I'm not looking for them---they just show up in subjects I'm studying, and always with the same result: a two-thousand year chunk of time during which Yahweh will (as it says in Hosea 6:1) "tear" and "strike" Israel, after which time He will heal the nation. If I'm seeing things that aren't really there, I'll leave it up to you guys to figure out what Yahweh meant to say---'cause in my experience, He never says or does anything on a pointless whim.

For me, the nice thing is that if 2033 rolls around and nothing's happened, I'll be long gone anyway (there's no way I'm living to 88). So I won't have to listen to all the Monday morning quarterbacks. Convenient, huh? :-)

kp
Offline bitnet  
#19 Posted : Sunday, January 27, 2008 3:34:05 PM(UTC)
bitnet
Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,120

Hello KP,

Well, there are ways of keeping you alive and well on your feet till past 88 should you want to stay and listen to blues instead. A report on longevity showed a remarkable place with senior citizens living healthily closer to 100, and it's not in Japan or South America... it's in... wait for it... Loma Linda, California! Funnily enough it has to do with Sabbath observances, diet and a lack of deconstructive stress... Seems like you are in it for the long haul, KP! :-))
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
Offline William  
#20 Posted : Monday, January 28, 2008 12:29:20 PM(UTC)
William
Joined: 8/8/2007(UTC)
Posts: 23
Location: Birmingham, AL

KP,

Gotta go back and read your book on how you constructed your timeline, but using 360 days (God uses the lunar year, not the solar year of 365)--2000 years of 360 days = approx. the year 2006, not 2033. Granted 2006 has passed and we're still here and the tribulation has not started, but with world events going like they are, I doubt that we can make it to 2033 or anywhere near it. I guess that our calendars being all messed up through the ages really helps with not knowing the day or the hour (although we are commanded to know the SEASON - i.e. approximate timeframe based on what is happening in the world vs prophecy). If even the Son of God doesn't know the hour and the day, I am NOT going to be guessing it! However, my spirit tells me it is VERY soon!

As I said, I need to go back and read what you wrote in your book...just wanted to post my thoughts on the matter--just my opinion. Thanks!

William
Offline Jim  
#21 Posted : Monday, January 28, 2008 2:18:37 PM(UTC)
Jim
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 57
Man
Location: Central Florida

I agree with bitnet, KP! With my best Hogan's Heroes German accent, "Vee have our vays of making you stay!" :) With a kosher diet, no stress and good climate, you can hang around pretty easy, Yahuweh willing. It'll give you more time to enjoy Robski's wry Brit humor! ;)
Jim
Offline kp  
#22 Posted : Monday, January 28, 2008 5:35:03 PM(UTC)
kp
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

It's nice to have folks asking you to stick around. Thanks, guys. Unfortunately, I was in my late 50s before I finally figured out that my errant "Christian" dietary traditions were killing me---that I needed to trust Yahweh here, too. So the damage is probably done. I feel like an idiot for not realizing this sooner. Actually, my agenda is to make it until the rapture. I think it would be really cool to go out of here "head first," although I don't suppose it really matters.

Actually, William, Yahweh uses three types of calendars. He's fully aware of how long a solar year is, of course, and most statements of elapsed times (like people's ages) are stated in these terms. But He set up the Hebrew calendar on a far more useful and intuitive system for an agrarian society, the lunar year---which is not 360 days, but 354. (The sidereal lunar month is about 29.5 days long.) Lots of ancient societies used this system ('cause it's easy to tell when a new month starts---just wait for a new moon). You've got to add a "leap month" approximately 7 years out of every 19 to keep the seasons from wandering, but the system works just fine. The third system is the 360-day "prophetic year" that was used in Daniel 9 to map out the milestones of Israel's future, but in truth, Yahweh (being far more precise than we are) never actually calls it a year---He calls it a "time," both in Daniel and in Revelation. Anyway, if you're trying to get to the bottom of the chronological data in FH, there's an appendix on chronology at the end where I try to pull all the data together. Otherwise it's really hard to find, 'cause the book isn't really about the chronology---that's just a bonus.

kp
Offline bitnet  
#23 Posted : Monday, January 28, 2008 5:47:13 PM(UTC)
bitnet
Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,120

Hello All,

Yes, yes... I'm back again and you are probably getting sick of seeing my posts. It seems that I have an opinion for everything! :-p

But really, KP, as our big brother we definitely want you to be around for the heads up. As for your health, there is nothing that cannot be reversed. Perhaps that is why of all the businesses in the world I was called to be in the wellness business, educating people about how to achieve optimum health and how to repair damage to the body AND make it youthful again. This goes for everyone keen on keeping healthy for a long time.

And as far as time goes, I was spinning around trying to figure out call the calendars. It was smart and logical move to look at the Jubilee in the first-second centuries and extrapolate from there, but haven't there been changes in the Julian/Gregorian calendars in the centuries following that? Or did you use the shortcut and calculate using the Hebrew calendar as I would think is the next logical step. I'm a bit too lazy to check up on it right now and I know that the timeline has been published as a bonus, but I'd like to understand the methodology and whether my idea of approaching it would be correct.
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
Offline kp  
#24 Posted : Tuesday, January 29, 2008 4:48:33 AM(UTC)
kp
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

People have been able to calculate the accurate length of a solar year to within an hour or two for the last 2,500 years or so. They have known at least since Solomon's time that a year was about 365 1/4 days long. The only differences in society's calendars (which sometimes look so radically different at first glance) are the methods we use to reconcile the lunar phases with the solar seasons. The Eqyptians used a 360 day year with a five day chaser at the end. The Babylonians used that same schematic system right alongside a lunar calendar that added a leap month seven years out of nineteen. The only difference between their lunar calendar and that of the Hebrews was the time of year the intercalary month was added---the Babylonians added it in the fall (hence the captive Jews' erroneous designation of Rosh HaShanah at the feast of trumpets---Tishri 1) and the Jews (according to Torah principles) put it in the spring, right before the new year was supposed to start (Abib/Nisan 1). I think it was the Romans who first tried to make their calendar years accurate to within a day---365 or 366 days long. By the way, the only difference between the Julian and Gregorian calendar is that the latter introduced a mechanism for supressing certain leap years, allowing them to more tightly control the phenomenon of seasonal "calendar creep."

Me, I kinda like the simplicty of the Islamic calendar, which is strictly lunar---no intercalary aduteration for these guys. Their months therefore wander aimlessly through the seasons, kinda like the rest of their doctrine. You can't tell what time it is without consulting your imam. Perfect. :-)

kp
Offline shalom82  
#25 Posted : Tuesday, January 29, 2008 2:34:10 PM(UTC)
shalom82
Joined: 9/10/2007(UTC)
Posts: 735
Location: Penna

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
You know what would be neat? If we had a corrected calendar on the forum.
YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
Offline sugarman  
#26 Posted : Sunday, February 3, 2008 8:01:25 PM(UTC)
sugarman
Joined: 2/3/2008(UTC)
Posts: 67

kp wrote:
Oh, good grief. (1) Yes, the Bible clearly teaches that SOME souls will be destroyed (a fact blatantly ignored by mainstream christianity), but that's not a universal across-the-board phenomenon: there will be other souls enjoying eternal bliss, and still others experiencing everlasting torment. Yada and I have both written extensively on this.

(2) There is a timeline implied in the Bible, and that timeline includes a plethora of evidence that demonstrates that the rapture will most definitely occur on the Feast of Trumpets, which on earth occurs in the fall. (I don't know when it falls on his planet.)

(3) The Tribulation began in 1988? It's only going to last 2,520 days, fella. Seven "times" of 360 days each. Ending at the Feast of Tabernacles. 2033, unless I'm wrong about some very fundamental principles.

I think what we have here is one more guy "crying wolf." Near the beginning of my Appendix on Chronology in Future History, I include a long list of previous wrong guesses, all summed up with the observation, "You weren't listening to what God actually said, were you, boys and girls?" By the time the big day actually does roll around, the world will be completely unready for it. WOLF! By the way, I heard on a TV show that Nostradamus named 2012, and as we all know, ol' Nos is never wrong, only misunderstood. lol.

kp



kp wrote:
Oh, good grief. (1) Yes, the Bible clearly teaches that SOME souls will be destroyed (a fact blatantly ignored by mainstream christianity), but that's not a universal across-the-board phenomenon: there will be other souls enjoying eternal bliss, and still others experiencing everlasting torment. Yada and I have both written extensively on this.


I thought mainsteam Christianty teaches a everlasting hell of torment.
Offline sugarman  
#27 Posted : Sunday, February 3, 2008 8:05:40 PM(UTC)
sugarman
Joined: 2/3/2008(UTC)
Posts: 67

Tiffany wrote:
I saw a guy at Walmart preaching the same thing about 2011, so when I asked him about it he wanted to show all of this scriptural proof for it, and I think it was based in some sort of Jehovah's Witness teaching. But I could be wrong, but I have heard of it before.








Jehovah's witness are knowed to make many cliams on Yeshua return and The last war.


I believe 1914 or 1918 is one cliam Yeshua return.



1975 another cliam for the last war they made a few cliams.


Yah is very clear what makes a true prophet true, If what he says come to pass he true but not he false. Yah made it simple not hard to understand that.
Offline canasia_us  
#28 Posted : Sunday, February 24, 2008 11:25:33 AM(UTC)
canasia_us
Joined: 2/24/2008(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: BC, Canada

Hello everybody. Another Newbie here.

I have with great interest been reading all of the on-line books by Yada and KP as I also am very interested in the prophecies of the Bible, timelines, events, etc, etc. And all of the comments submitted by the various posters are also all very interesting. But I keep running up against the wall on almost all of these theories.

I keep reading that we are nearing the end of the "time of the eclessia", the 2000 year period which is supposed to end in 2033 or thereabouts, and that at that point is supposed to start the 1000 year reign of Yahshua corresponding to the 7th day of creation. My problem is this. Revelations talks about events that are supposed to happen after the 1000 year reign. For example, Revelations 20:7-10 talks about the final battle (which I'm assuming is the Battle of Armageddon) between Satan and Yahshua where Satan is defeated and thrown into the lake of fire. That battle consists of nations from the four corners of the world (naming them Gog and Magog) which Satan has persuaded to join with him to fight against Yahshua at this great battle.

But this battle sounds suspiciously like Ezekiel 38 where is described a battle where nations called Gog of Magog come to fight against Israel and where God defeats them. In my mind, these two are describing the same event. Yet the Ezekiel battle seems to be taking place soon after Israel is returned to their homeland (and which appears to be on the horizon as we speak if one is watching current news items), whereas the Gog/Magog battle of Revelations seems to take place AFTER the 1000 year reign of Yahshua.

So which is it? Is the 1000 year reign already nearing its end, or has it not started yet? If it hasn't started yet, then we still have a long time to go before the prophecies of Revelations 20:7-10. Yet, every indication points to these events happening in the very near future.

Anyone else got any opinions about this?

Gord
Offline kp  
#29 Posted : Sunday, February 24, 2008 12:27:41 PM(UTC)
kp
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

Hi, Gord, and welcome to the forum. The solution is quite simple, but the terminology John used throws a lot of folks off (so don't feel alone).

You're first theory (or is it the second?) was correct: the battle of Revelation 20:7-10 (which is not Armageddon) does indeed occur at the end of the Millennium. (I cover it, by the way, about halfway through chapter 28 of Future History.) What has happened, in a nutshell, is that Satan, having been bound for a thousand years, is once again released to tempt the population of earth. During the Millennium, billions of people will have been born, and they've lived their entire lives in a Kingdom of perfect peace. But they, like us, are children of Adam--they're fallen creatures, in need of the indwelling of Yahweh's Spirit (the "being born from above" status Yahshua told us about in John 3). Many, of course, will have received it and become children of God, but many others have not. Oh, they're well behaved enough, not overtly rebellious or anything like that, so they haven't been confronted with the consequences of their sin. But that's not the same thing as having a relationship with Yahshua. The release of Satan (painful though it is to think about) is the event that makes them confront their condition. Some, even many, will decide that Satan has a point, that they've actually been living under a state of repression, since overt rebellion has been summarily punished and not allowed to fester and spread throughout the Millennium. And, like the Muslims of Magog in Ezekiel 38 and 39, they'll follow this new Mahdi, the new Gog---Satan---to their doom.

To put things in perspective, there are three major wars ahead of us. The first begins with the battle of Magog and excalates into the nuclear conflagration of WWIII. The second (which I call WWIV) will begin only a few years later in the Far East---a vast genocidal land grab by China. The last and greatest battle of this second war is Armageddon, fought between Yahshua and the worldwide forces of the Antichrist in Israel a day or two before the end of the Tribulation. The third and last great war is the one we discussed above, the one (which you could call Gog and Magog II) that takes place at the end of the Millennium---after a thousand year interval of perfect peace.

Because these events are so similar in so many ways, I've prepared a "Prophetic chronology chart" that hits the highlights of the events in our world's future, assigning dates where scripture allows. You can see it at: http://www.futuretruth.n..._Appendix_Chart.Prophecy Hope that helps.

kp
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#30 Posted : Sunday, February 24, 2008 1:16:31 PM(UTC)
Robskiwarrior
Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,470
Man
Location: England

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Welcome Gord :)
Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Offline bitnet  
#31 Posted : Sunday, February 24, 2008 10:06:40 PM(UTC)
bitnet
Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,120

Shalom Gord,

It is good that you, as another reader, has decided to engage and enquire more. I would encourage you to read and re-read all the YY books and associated books to be able to have a better grasp of the matters discussed here. There are some things that you may not agree upon but for the most part, I'd think that the most important key points -- being immersed in the names of Yahweh, Yahushua and the Ruach Qodesh; being called to walk in His Way and obey His voice and commandments after accepting His Sacrifice for our sins; that the Kingdom of Yahweh will come soon -- all these are unquestionable if one is truly called and is willing to do what it takes to be selected. That said, please have some fun here as well as we are not all fuddy-duddies with square hats and pointy faces... or was it square faces and pointy hats... or was it... ?
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
Offline canasia_us  
#32 Posted : Monday, February 25, 2008 8:02:58 PM(UTC)
canasia_us
Joined: 2/24/2008(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: BC, Canada

Thanks very much everybody, for your kind words.

Thanks for the answers I've received so far. They do make sense although I do have some small niggly little questions which are probably best to take my time asking. And I will be reading YY and Future History again eventually.

One question I have off the bat, has to do with KP's timeline concerning the year of Yahshua's death and resurrection. There is some question as to 33 AD being the actual year and there is some question on year 0 being the year of his birth. In fact, some are placing His birth up to 6 years earlier then once believed due to the fact that the Herod who had wanted the baby Yahshua dead, died approximately 6-4 BC. Is anyone aware of this argument?

As an aside, there is also a prophecy website which I have found to be very much in line with what Yada and KP are advocating although there appears to be no affiliation. Anyone else see this?

http://www.escapeallthesethings.com

Gord
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#33 Posted : Monday, February 25, 2008 10:31:35 PM(UTC)
Robskiwarrior
Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,470
Man
Location: England

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
canasia_us wrote:
Thanks very much everybody, for your kind words.

Thanks for the answers I've received so far. They do make sense although I do have some small niggly little questions which are probably best to take my time asking. And I will be reading YY and Future History again eventually.

One question I have off the bat, has to do with KP's timeline concerning the year of Yahshua's death and resurrection. There is some question as to 33 AD being the actual year and there is some question on year 0 being the year of his birth. In fact, some are placing His birth up to 6 years earlier then once believed due to the fact that the Herod who had wanted the baby Yahshua dead, died approximately 6-4 BC. Is anyone aware of this argument?

As an aside, there is also a prophecy website which I have found to be very much in line with what Yada and KP are advocating although there appears to be no affiliation. Anyone else see this?

http://www.escapeallthesethings.com

Gord


Yahushua wasn't born on year 0, there was no year 0 :)

YadaYahweh.com Book 1 Genesis - Chay wrote:
The year of Yahushua's birth is broadly believed by biblical scholars to be 4 BCE. This is based upon an erroneous extrapolation derived from Josephus' recording of an eclipse on March 13, 4 BC, "shortly before Herod died." There are a number of problems with this in addition to the facts that it conflicts with Scripture and Josephus was a traitor who shouldn't be trusted. The eclipse mentioned in the eyewitness account actually occurred on December 29, 1 BCE, providing enough time between Yahushua's birth on the Miqra' of Tabernacles and Herod's eventual death for the Messiah's family to flee his persecution. Luke explains that Yahushua was born during the reign of Caesar Augustus (43 BCE to 14 CE) when Quirinius was governor of Syria (3 to 2 BCE). Matthew states that Mary and Joseph took Yahushua to Egypt to escape Herod's edict and that they didn't return until after Herod's demise, which occurred on January 14th 1 BCE.

Tertullian, a trustworthy historian born about 160 CE, stated that Augustus began his reign 41 years before the birth of Yahushua and that the emperor died 15 years after the Messiah's redemptive advent, placing Yahushua's birth at 2 BCE. The 42nd year of Augustus ran from the autumn of 2 BCE to the fall of 1 BCE. Tertullian also noted that the Messiah was born 28 years after the death of Cleopatra in 30 BCE, which is consistent with the 2 BCE date. Irenaeus, born 75 years before Tertullian, noted that Yahushua was born in the 41st year of Augustus's reign - consistent with the accounting of Scripture and Tertullian. Eusebius, another early historian, provides cohobating testimony, ascribing the advent of the Messiah to the 28th anniversary of the subjection of Egypt unto the Romans and the death of Anthony and Cleopatra in the fall of 30 BCE.

John proclaims that "the Word became flesh and Tabernacled with us." Further, Luke explains that the Messiah was around 30 when He began His ministry. The New Covenant records Yahushua observing three Passovers, and Daniel dates the last one to April 1st, 33 CE. These dates correlate the time "a child was born, a son was given" to the fall observance of the last Miqra', that of Tabernacles in the fall of 2 BCE. And all of this serves to confirm that the Greater Light was indeed manifest in our presence as a sign to us in man's fourth millennia in accordance with the Miqra'/Mow'ed as they are predicted in Exodus, Leviticus, and Genesis and confirmed in Matthew, Luke, and John.


Hope that helps a bit :)

Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Offline kp  
#34 Posted : Tuesday, February 26, 2008 11:01:01 AM(UTC)
kp
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

The data (this stuff and more) is also discussed in the Chronology Appendix to Future History. A birthdate in the fall of 2 BC and a passion in the spring of 33 fit both the prophetic requirements and the historical data (such as we have). I realize Sir Arthur Anderson pegged the passion in 32, but he didn't know about the one year delay in the commencement of the reign of Persia's Artaxerxes. He got the math right, but not the starting date of the Daniel 9 prophecy. Also, thanks for the link, Gord. I'll have to check that out. You're right: there is no affiliation with us, but you know what the say about great minds :-)

kp
Offline Devildog  
#35 Posted : Tuesday, March 11, 2008 5:54:02 AM(UTC)
Devildog
Joined: 7/24/2007(UTC)
Posts: 129
Location: Florida

"The eclipse mentioned in the eyewitness account actually occurred on December 29, 1 BCE,"

Can someone point me to the evidence for this? Thank you.

Offline Devildog  
#36 Posted : Tuesday, March 11, 2008 6:08:53 AM(UTC)
Devildog
Joined: 7/24/2007(UTC)
Posts: 129
Location: Florida

What are the problems, if any, with the following statement.

"We also know, with some accuracy, the actual date of Herod's death. We can say with certainty that Herod died towards the end of March in the year 4 BCE. This is because Josephus recorded the execution of forty-two people who had staged an unsuccessful revolt against the Idumean. Josephus recorded an eclipse of the moon that occurred during the night of this execution. This allows for precise astronomical calculations which sets the date of execution as March 13th 4 BCE. Now we are told that Herod died a few days after this execution, which makes his death around the second half of March 4 BCE."

Thanks for any help
Offline Swalchy  
#37 Posted : Tuesday, March 11, 2008 8:49:52 AM(UTC)
Swalchy
Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC)
Posts: 250
Man
Location: England

Devildog - the following might be of some interest to you:

http://www.johnpratt.com...ms/docs/herod/herod.html
Offline Devildog  
#38 Posted : Wednesday, March 12, 2008 7:15:20 AM(UTC)
Devildog
Joined: 7/24/2007(UTC)
Posts: 129
Location: Florida

Thanks Swalchy. I appreciate any help I can get here. I scanned through the page you suggested and it did offer some insightful points, but I guess the question comes down to what makes us so certain we can write: "This is based upon an erroneous extrapolation derived from Josephus' recording of an eclipse on March 13, 4 BC".

What evidence shows it to be "an erroneous extrapolation"? And what about this statement?: "This is because Josephus recorded the execution of forty-two people who had staged an unsuccessful revolt against the Idumean."

Did this also happen in 1 BC?

Thanks
Offline Swalchy  
#39 Posted : Wednesday, March 12, 2008 7:44:03 AM(UTC)
Swalchy
Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC)
Posts: 250
Man
Location: England

Devildog wrote:
What evidence shows it to be "an erroneous extrapolation"? And what about this statement?: "This is because Josephus recorded the execution of forty-two people who had staged an unsuccessful revolt against the Idumean."

Did this also happen in 1 BC?

Thanks


The page I linked actually answers that :)

Why was Herod's eclipse the only eclipse mentioned by Josephus in his lengthy histories? A partial answer is that it occurred on the night after the execution of some Jewish patriots, and would probably have been interpreted as a sign in heaven related to their death. However, with lunar eclipses visible in Palestine every year or so, it seems strange that others are not mentioned. If Josephus had access to records of such observations, surely he would have included at least some other eclipses which coincided with historical events. It is unlikely that the execution date was chosen for dramatic impact because Herod had the offenders executed very soon after they had been apprehended. So why did Josephus include Herod's eclipse but no others?

An obvious answer is that the eclipse was widely observed[i] and [i]then associated with the executions. If so, then the eclipse occurred in the early evening. Using this criterion, the eclipses of March 13, 4 B.C. and January 10, 1 B.C. are extremely unlikely because they both began the umbral phase more than six hours after sunset and hence would have only been seen by at most a few people. The eclipse of Sept 15, 5 B.C. began three hours after sunset, but that is also late.


Basically, Josephus isn't accurately recording History, and the eclipse that he mentions happened in 1 BCE (and so did the executions as well), and not in 4 BCE :)
Offline Icy  
#40 Posted : Wednesday, March 12, 2008 10:19:22 AM(UTC)
Icy
Joined: 9/5/2007(UTC)
Posts: 641
Man
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
I know this is vague, but there is software that can track everything in the sky all the way into our past and future. It is all mathimatically based. You can see what the sky looked like on those days and see if and when an eclipse occured. I wish I new the name of the software though. I also think NASA has tables for eclipses on their site. You just pick the location and year, and they tell you the visible eclipses then.
Offline Devildog  
#41 Posted : Thursday, March 13, 2008 6:27:06 AM(UTC)
Devildog
Joined: 7/24/2007(UTC)
Posts: 129
Location: Florida

Hey S,
Thanks for your help. Still having a little difficulty with it, so let me try to explain my thoughts by going through that quote.
Quote:

Why was Herod's eclipse the only eclipse mentioned by Josephus in his lengthy histories? A partial answer is that it occurred on the night after the execution of some Jewish patriots, and would probably have been interpreted as a sign in heaven related to their death.



Do we have other records that show when these patriots were executed?

Quote:
However, with lunar eclipses visible in Palestine every year or so, it seems strange that others are not mentioned.


Not really. It isn't everyday that someone like Herod dies. To me, it seems this eclipse was recorded because it coincided with Herod's death(and the slayings). No?

If Josephus had access to records of such observations, surely he would have included at least some other eclipses which coincided with historical events.

This isn't evidence. It's only saying "I think he would or should have done this or that".


Quote:
It is unlikely that the execution date was chosen for dramatic impact because Herod had the offenders executed very soon after they had been apprehended. So why did Josephus include Herod's eclipse but no others?


Don't know but it's all speculation from there, isn't it?

Quote:
An obvious answer is that the eclipse was widely observed


Ahhh, that's weak-certainly not evidence.

Quote:
and [i]then associated with the executions. If so,



[i]If
so.

Quote:
then the eclipse occurred in the early evening. Using this criterion, the eclipses of March 13, 4 B.C. and January 10, 1 B.C. are extremely unlikely because they both began the umbral phase more than six hours after sunset and hence would have only been seen by at most a few people. The eclipse of Sept 15, 5 B.C. began three hours after sunset, but that is also late.

Basically, Josephus isn't accurately recording History, and the eclipse that he mentions happened in 1 BCE (and so did the executions as well), and not in 4 BCE :)


I don't see it. What am I missing? Didn't Herods' successors even date their time to 4 BC as well. Not onlycan I find no evidence to say with certainty that 4BC is "an erroneous extrapolation", all the evidence seems to confirm it. Thanks for any clarity that you can bring.

Offline Swalchy  
#42 Posted : Thursday, March 13, 2008 7:14:49 AM(UTC)
Swalchy
Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC)
Posts: 250
Man
Location: England

Devildog wrote:
Hey S,

Do we have other records that show when these patriots were executed?


No, we don't. Which of course is a problem. The only information we have regarding Herod's death and what happened at that time is Josephus' account, so yes, there's going to be a lot of speculation regarding whether Josephus is right or not.

Quote:
Not really. It isn't everyday that someone like Herod dies. To me, it seems this eclipse was recorded because it coincided with Herod's death(and the slayings). No?


But many things happened during Palestine in the time of Herod. It is quite odd that Josephus only ever records one account of an eclipse, and yes, the fact that this eclipse happens at the time of some executions and before Herod's death is probably why Josephus is recording it. Also, due to the fact that he's recording what happened at the time of Herod's death it's no wonder he's recording this specific eclipse. The question is, is it the eclipse of 4 BCE, or 1 BCE? Is josephus right in recording that Herod died in 4 BCE, or is he in error?

The point is this: The only evidence people use for the 6 BCE date of the Messiah's birth is Josephus' account of this eclipse happening in 4 BCE before Herod's death.

But this is a problem as it conflicts with Scripture, and it also conflicts with Irenaeus who stated that the Messiah was born in the 41st year of August (2 BCE), and Tertullian who said he was born 28 years after the death of cleopatray (30 BCE - which hterefore points again to a 2 BCE date of the Messiah's birth).

2nd of all, what Josephus said happened within 30 days of Herod's death is nigh on impossible to have been completed within that day limit.

3rdly, the 6BCE date of the Messiah's death also conflicts with the fact that there is no evidence for a "census" at all in 6 BCE - but there is a lot of evidence for census being done in and around 3- 2 BCE (which would again confirm the 2 BCE date of the Messiahs' birth). Josephus also records that 6000 Pharisees refused to pledge their alliegence to Caesar, which happened a full year before Herod's death. So if the census was done in or around 3 - 2 BCE, there's no way for Herod to have died before it.

As what Josephus records just does not fit with the evidence given by other sources (and Josephus himself, ironically), a 4BCE date for the eclipse before Herod died does not fit the bill. The 29th December, 1 BCE one does.
Offline Devildog  
#43 Posted : Thursday, March 13, 2008 9:08:05 AM(UTC)
Devildog
Joined: 7/24/2007(UTC)
Posts: 129
Location: Florida

OK. Thanks for the help. It is still very confusing to me considering there was an eclipse in 4BC, the coins dated 4BC of Herods successors and the Quirinius governor of Syria issue. I hope one day my feeble mind can figure it out. Regardless, I thank you for your efforts.
Offline Swalchy  
#44 Posted : Thursday, March 13, 2008 9:48:53 AM(UTC)
Swalchy
Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC)
Posts: 250
Man
Location: England

Devildog wrote:
It is still very confusing to me considering there was an eclipse in 4BC, the coins dated 4BC of Herods successors


There are coins dated 4 BCE for Herod's successors? The website I linked to said that the "earliest coins known for any of the successors' reigns is for "year 5," ", which would place them at 1 AD.
Offline Devildog  
#45 Posted : Friday, March 14, 2008 8:09:43 AM(UTC)
Devildog
Joined: 7/24/2007(UTC)
Posts: 129
Location: Florida

I may have made a mistake, Swalchy. I thought I was reading about coins dating the successors to 4 BC. Again, I am a little confused. I'll see if I can find what I was reading.
Offline Swalchy  
#46 Posted : Saturday, March 15, 2008 1:13:47 AM(UTC)
Swalchy
Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC)
Posts: 250
Man
Location: England

Devildog wrote:
Again, I am a little confused.


You and me both DD :)
Offline canasia_us  
#47 Posted : Saturday, March 15, 2008 12:23:31 PM(UTC)
canasia_us
Joined: 2/24/2008(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: BC, Canada

The website for NASA's Eclipse information is located here.

http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse.html

The problem is that lunar eclipses happen almost every year with some years containing up to 5 total and partial eclipses. Which one was Josephus referring to? Figuring out which one's were not visible in that part of the world might be one way to eliminate some of them. But if eclipses happened every year, the way I see it, there would be no way to pin down

I happen to be one of those who doesn't believe that Yahshua was crucified on a Friday. I think he was crucified on a Wednesday, with the Passover starting the evening before, on Tuesday. His crucifixion occurs 14 days after the New Moon which is the 1st of Nissan. The only Full Moon that occurs on a Wednesday on or prior to 33 AD is in the year 27 AD. That's a full 6 years (7 years if you create a year 0) earlier then we traditionally think. BUT, it accomodates the 6 BC death of Herod. Yahshua was already between 0 and 2 years of age by that point.

He was crucified on Wednesday, placed in the tomb on Wednesday evening, then stayed in the tomb for 3 full days till Saturday evening (which is when the first day of the week starts). It was early the next morning (Sunday) that His tomb was discovered empty.

Passover was from Tuesday evening till Wednesday evening. This day was also a day of preparation (Luke 23:54) for the next day which was a Sabbath, the first day of the 7 day Feast of Unleavened Bread which immediately followed the Passover. So Joseph hurriedly entombed the body. It is not till Friday that the women can buy and prepare spices for the body. Friday is also a day of preparation for the Saturday Sabbath. The Saturday Sabbath passes and the women set out to go to the tomb on Sunday morning.

There are two Sabbaths in this scenario, not one. I believe that somehow, the church as confused this fact, assumed that there was only one sabbath so it had to be Saturday and so made the crucifixion day to be on a Friday.

But this scenario fixes a couple of problems with the gospel accounts.

1. Matthew 28:1 original Greek has "Sabbaths" plural, not one. Yet it is almost always translated as singular (Sabbath). YLT translates it properly.

2. The apparent inconsistency between Mark 16:1 which has the women buying and preparing spices after the Sabbath, which would have been the 1st day of the feast of Unleavened Bread which was treated as a Sabbath, and Luke 23:56 which has the women buying and preparing spices before the Sabbath, the Saturday Sabbath. They are referring to two different Sabbaths.

So, what this means is that the 3 Apr 33 AD won't work.

Gord

Offline Swalchy  
#48 Posted : Saturday, March 15, 2008 2:20:58 PM(UTC)
Swalchy
Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC)
Posts: 250
Man
Location: England

canasia_us wrote:
The website for NASA's Eclipse information is located here.

http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse.html

The problem is that lunar eclipses happen almost every year with some years containing up to 5 total and partial eclipses. Which one was Josephus referring to? Figuring out which one's were not visible in that part of the world might be one way to eliminate some of them. But if eclipses happened every year, the way I see it, there would be no way to pin down

I happen to be one of those who doesn't believe that Yahshua was crucified on a Friday. I think he was crucified on a Wednesday, with the Passover starting the evening before, on Tuesday. His crucifixion occurs 14 days after the New Moon which is the 1st of Nissan. The only Full Moon that occurs on a Wednesday on or prior to 33 AD is in the year 27 AD. That's a full 6 years (7 years if you create a year 0) earlier then we traditionally think. BUT, it accomodates the 6 BC death of Herod. Yahshua was already between 0 and 2 years of age by that point.


But this just completely ignores that Yahuchanon the Immerser and Yahushua began their ministry in the 15th year of the Emperor Tiberius (Luke 3:1) which would be 29 CE, so that rules out the Wednesday of 27 CE as the date of the Messiah's death, because He can't die before He starts His 3 1/2 year ministry.
Offline canasia_us  
#49 Posted : Saturday, March 15, 2008 9:55:33 PM(UTC)
canasia_us
Joined: 2/24/2008(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: BC, Canada

Ah, but are we sure about the start of Tiberius' reign? First of all, are we sure Augustus death was in 14 AD? Could it have occurred earlier? And second, if antedating in Tiberius' reign occurred, instead of counting from the death of Augustus (14 AD), when he actually became Emperor, his reign would have started quite a bit earlier. Or are both factors at play here?

See here for more info on possible antedating in Tiberius' reign.

http://www.biblicalchronology.com/tiberius.htm

Now, the link says that antedating possibly occurred for Tiberius in that Augustus had named him as successor 10 years prior to Augustus' death, which means he was named successor in 4 AD. Granted, a ten year earlier date for the start of Tiberius rule does not fit the chronology either but we don't really know when Luke started counting in Tiberius' reign. Did Luke take into consideration any antedating? If so, how many years? From my primitive calculations, he would have had to start counting Tiberius' reign from about 8 AD to make it all fit the 27 AD crucifixion year.

Gord
Offline shalom82  
#50 Posted : Sunday, March 16, 2008 1:17:01 AM(UTC)
shalom82
Joined: 9/10/2007(UTC)
Posts: 735
Location: Penna

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Augustus ruled until his death in August of 14 C.E. A month later Tiberius was official "sworn in" by the Senate as Princeps on the date of September 18th 14 C.E. That is the official start of Tiberius' reign even if he had imperial duties beforehand. I don't see any reason why the matter should be convoluted. I think it would do us well to remember that these men were the emperors of the world. Their reigns were exceedingly well documented and catalogued. This would put the 15th year of Tiberius in 29 C.E. as Swalchy said. You count back 30 years and you get a birthdate in the year 2 B.C. (remembering that there is no year zero) for Messiah Yahushua

The accepted year of 4 B.C.E. as the year of the death of Herod the great is suspect. First off it was only a partial eclipse that was 37 percent visible. Secondly it was only 29 days before the Passover. According to the History of Josephus it would have been virtually impossible for Herod to accomplish the remaining events of his life in such a short time. The years 3 and 2 B.C.E. did not have ecclipses. However, the year 1 B.C.E. did. It was a full lunar ecclipse on January 10th. That would have given Herod around 12 weeks to scratch some things off his to do list and kick the bucket.

I will concede that the 5 B.C.E. argument has been put forth. There were 2 lunar ecclipses that year...one being seven months before the Passover. Problem is that the events don't match up in Josephus history was to when the priestly intrigues were.

Lastly, I don't understand the Messianic aversion to a Friday Pesach. The "Christian" position is not being upheld merely because of a "resurrection Sunday". The pagan days and months of reckoning are inconsequential to YHWH's calendar. Only one day has any real significance as it pertains to the redemption chronology. That day being Saturday. The feast of unleavened bread (Chag HaMatzot) fell on a natural sabbath....in keeping with the theme of the seventh day...where no work could be done...unleavened bread being the day where we were made clean..sanctified by Yahushua...by no effort of our own. So whether or not Yahushua was risen as a wave offering on a Sunday is of no consequence to YHWH. It's just the day that the 16th of Aviv (being Bikkurim) happens to fall on. The first day just so happens to be the day after the sabbath. I have to say that I believe the aversion to a Sunday resurrection to be sociological...more than logical...I understand the reasons for the fear and hostility towards Sunday...but YHWH's calendar is what matters here. Sunday remains inconsequential. Aviv 16th remains highly consequential what ever day it may fall on.

Now, Sincerely if I may ask...and I hope I haven't made some monumental blunder...but I have ticked off the days after a Pesach that starts on Tuesday evening. Thursday evening to Friday evening was Bikkurim...by your reckoning, canasia...the Messiah forgot to wake up and present himself to the throne on First Fruits. How are the moedim fulfilled?

YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
Users browsing this topic
2 Pages12>
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.