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Offline Daniel  
#1 Posted : Saturday, November 19, 2011 2:26:48 AM(UTC)
Daniel
Joined: 10/24/2010(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: Florida

Please take a look at the video I produced this summer: "Hanukkah and Jesus".
Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
Offline MadDog  
#2 Posted : Saturday, November 19, 2011 7:19:00 AM(UTC)
MadDog
Joined: 6/19/2009(UTC)
Posts: 157
Man
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Concerning Hanukkah, I don't see Yahushau celebrating Hanukkah at all. "Scripture" does mention it, but I don't see Yahushau participating in it at all.

To me, there is only Yahweh's seven feasts. I did try to observe Hanukkah at one time in my life, but I came to the conclusion that just like Christmas, the observation of Hannukkah is just another distraction from Yahweh's seven feasts.

And this video is full of pagan jargon. I thought that through YY we've abandoned such names and words like Lord, Jesus, Christian, etc.
Offline Daniel  
#3 Posted : Sunday, November 20, 2011 2:44:35 AM(UTC)
Daniel
Joined: 10/24/2010(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: Florida

MadDog wrote:
Concerning Hanukkah, I don't see Yahushau celebrating Hanukkah at all.


Have you ever read Yehochanan(John) 10:22?

MadDog wrote:
"Scripture" does mention it, but I don't see Yahushau participating in it at all.


Again, have you ever read Yehochanan(John) 10:22?

I will grant that "Greek translations of the original Hebrew (or Aramaic) autographs of the Apostolic accounts of the life of MessiYah" would be a more accurate term than "Scripture". That term is a little awkward and christians will not know what we are talking about.

MadDog wrote:
To me, there is only Yahweh's seven feasts. I did try to observe Hanukkah at one time in my life, but I came to the conclusion that just like Christmas, the observation of Hannukkah is just another distraction from Yahweh's seven feasts.


Once more, have you ever read Yehochanan(John) 10:22? Yahushau didn't seem to have a problem with it.

MadDog wrote:
And this video is full of pagan jargon. I thought that through YY we've abandoned such names and words like Lord, Jesus, Christian, etc.


This video series is an (say it with me) "OUTREACH" effort.

The pagan terms are there to provide a "Rosetta Stone" so the Christo-Pagans can understand what we are talking about.

Riddle me this, MD,: How many christians have been led to a Torah observant relationship with YHWH by your approach?

Shalom, out!

Dan "My-Christian-Friends-Think-I-am-a-Jew-MyJewish-Friends-Think-I-am-a-Christiand-But-they-are-both-wrong" Nafe
Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
Offline nannala  
#4 Posted : Sunday, November 20, 2011 5:40:49 AM(UTC)
nannala
Joined: 5/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 12

Hanukkah was celebrated by Jesus (Yeshua).

When reading,Yahousha obviously wasn't there to observe it or celebrate it, as the video claims, and after their conversation, they definately didn't want Him there. Guess He spoiled "their" feast celebration.

http://www.thewaytoyahuw...on1/yahuchanon#chapter10

Yahochanan (John) 22 - 39 Greek to English

Then, at that time, the Feast of Dedication, Consecration and Renovation* came to be and existed, began and arose, was made and finished, arrived and was produced, established and occurred, was created and prepared, constituted and appointed, presented and happened, was instituted and formed, came to pass and took place, appeared and originated within and inside Yarushalaim. It was and existed as winter, and Yahushua* was walking around and going about within and inside the Sacred Place and Temple, within and inside the portico and porch, cloister and colonnade of Shalomoh’s*(incorrectly known as Solomon's), the open space surrounded and supported by upright columns*. Then and therefore, accordingly, consequently and these things being so, the Yahuwdish authorities surrounded, encompassed and encircled Him, and they were saying and teaching, maintaining and affirming, directing and exhorting, advising and pointing out to Him, “Up until when are you going to be actively lifting up and elevating, carrying, picking up and raising our soul, keeping us in suspense and ambiguity? If or whether you are and exist as the Anointed One*, tell us with courage and fearless confidence, boldness and assurance, open speaking, frankness and public outspokenness.” Yahushua* answered, responded and replied to them, “I have told you, but none of you trusted or relied, obeyed or placed confidence, certainty and guarantee, assurance and dependence in it. The works and businesses, employments and undertakings, acts and deeds, tasks and labours which I am doing and performing, accomplishing and executing, practising and bringing about, undertaking and creating, keeping and carrying out, constructing and establishing, forming and producing, appointing and ordaining, celebrating and constituting in, by and with the name and title, character and person, reputation and authority of My Father*: these certain specific things witness and declare, confirm and approve, testify and affirm, report and acknowledge about and concerning, regarding and on account of, because of and with respect to Me, telling you Who I am. But nevertheless, notwithstanding and on the contrary, none of you trust or rely, obey or place confidence, certainty or guarantee, assurance or dependence in the Trustworthy One, for concerning this, none of you are or exist as from out of or among the Sheep that are Mine, those who belong to Me. The sheep that are Mine, those who belong to Me, hear and attend to, consider and understand, comprehend and perceive, pay attention to and listen to My sound, tone and voice, and I know and understand, perceive and realise, notice and discern, discover and observe, experience and ascertain, learn about and distinguish, judge and think about, comprehend, acknowledge and recognise them, and they accompany and follow after, obey and join themselves to Me. And so I give and grant, supply and furnish, bestow and deliver, commit and permit, extend and present eternal and never ending, everlasting and perpetual life and continued existence to them, and never, ever may they be destroyed or ruined, annihilated or rendered useless, lost or abolished, obliterated, wasted or caused to perish or pass away for and on behalf of the entirety of the age, season and the perpetuity of time, and a certain specific person has not snatched or seized, carried off or dragged, claimed for himself or taken them away from out of My hand, power and open palm. My Father*, He Whom has given and granted, supplied and furnished, bestowed and delivered, committed and permitted, extended and presented all individual and collective things to Me is and exists as greater and larger, mightier and more powerful, important and prominent, extraordinary and outstanding, and no one, nobody and nothing is powerful or mighty, able or capable, forceful or influenceable, authorised or significant, competent or excellent enough to snatch or seize, carry off or drag, claim for themselves or take anything away from out of the hand, power and open palm of the Father*. I and the Father* are and exist as one.” The Yahuwdish authorities again, anew and furthermore carried and bore, sustained and held up, supported and picked up stones and rocks so that, in order that and with the result that may pelt, throw and fling them at Him. Yahushua* answered, responded and replied to them, “I showed and gave evidence of, exhibited, proved and made known to all of you many numerous and large amounts of good and pleasant, excellent and fine, useful and beneficial, nice and salutary, upright and worthy, admirable and commendable, precious and genuine, flawless and lovely, virtuous, beautiful and honourable works and businesses, employments and undertakings, acts and deeds, tasks and labours from out of My Father*: through the means of and on the grounds of, on account of and for the reason of, on the basis of and because of what kind, sort or nature of work and business, employment and undertaking, act and deed, task and labour from among them do all of you pelt, throw and fling stones at Me?” The Yahuwdish authorities answered, responded and replied to Him, “We do not pelt, throw or fling stones at You about and concerning, regarding and on account of, because of and with respect to a good and pleasant, excellent and fine, useful and beneficial, nice and salutary, upright and worthy, admirable and commendable, precious and genuine, flawless and lovely, virtuous, beautiful and honourable work and business, employment and undertaking, act and deed, task and labour, but nevertheless, notwithstanding and on the contrary, we stone You about and concerning, regarding and on account of, because of and with respect to blasphemy and a lie, malicious slander and abusive speech, injurious reproach and vilification, personal mockery and insult, reviling and defamatory statement, and because and for the fact that You, being and existing as a man and human being, make and create, form and produce, appoint and ordain, prepare and constitute, manufacture and establish, accomplish, set and bring Yourself about as God*!” Yahushua* answered, responded and replied to them, “Has it not and does it not exist as written and recorded, inscribed and composed within and inside Your Law, the teachings and precepts, instructions and commandments of the Torah, that concerning this, ‘I have said, “All of you are and exist as gods, mighty ones and supreme ones” ’ * ? If and since He called those certain specific people ‘gods, mighty ones and supreme ones,’ * favourably to whom the word and saying, message and statement, declaration and thought, instruction and teaching, decree, mandate and matter of God* came to be and existed, began and arose, was made and finished, arrived and was produced, established and occurred, was created and prepared, constituted and appointed, presented, instituted and formed, appeared and originated - and the writing of Scripture is not powerful or mighty, able or capable, forceful or influenceable, authorised or significant, competent or excellent enough to be untied or loosened, set free or released, set aside or unbound, undone or unfastened, annulled or invalidated, done away with or dismissed, destroyed or torn down, broken or dispersed, subverted or severed, demolished or weakened, relaxed or slackened, put an end to or repealed, revoked or transgressed, removed, eliminated or violated - do all of you say and teach, maintain and affirm, direct and exhort, advise and pointed out to the One Whom the Father* set-apart and cleansed, sanctified and dedicated, accepted and acknowledged, and Whom He sent and dismissed, dispatched, ordered and commissioned to go into and to the world and cosmos, galaxy and universe, the entire realm of man, that concerning this, ‘You are speaking blasphemies and lies, malicious slandering and abusive speeches, injurious reproaches and vilifications, personal mockeries and insults, reviling and defamatory statements,’ for concerning this I have said, ‘I am and exists as God’s* Son*’? If or whether I do not do or perform, accomplish or execute, practise or bring about, undertake or create, keep or carry out, construct or establish, form or produce, appoint or ordain, celebrate or constitute the works and businesses, employments and undertakings, acts and deeds, tasks and labours of My Father*, none of you are to trust or rely, obey or place confidence, certainty or guarantee, assurance or dependence in Me. However, if and since I am doing and performing, accomplishing and executing, practising and bringing about, undertaking and creating, keeping and carrying out, constructing and establishing, forming and producing, appointing and ordaining, celebrating and constituting them, even if none of you may trust or rely, obey or place confidence, certainty or guarantee, assurance of dependence in Me, it is imperative that all of you have trusted and relied, obeyed and placed confidence, certainty and guarantee, assurance and dependence in the works and businesses, employments and undertakings, acts and deeds, tasks and labours, so that, in order that and with the result that all of you may have known and understood, perceived and realised, noticed and discerned, discovered and observed, experienced and ascertained, learned about and distinguished, judged and thought about, comprehended, acknowledged and recognised, and all of you may presently and actively know and understand, perceive and realise, notice and discern, discover and observe, experience and ascertain, learn about and distinguish, judge and think about, comprehend, acknowledge and recognise that concerning this, the Father* is within, by and inside Me, and I am within, by and inside the Father*.” Then and therefore, accordingly, consequently and these things being so, they were seeking after and wishing for, wanting and demanding, endeavouring to obtain and striving for, looking for and desiring to seize and take hold of, arrest and firmly capture, lay hold of and catch Him again, anew and furthermore, but He went out and departed, left and escaped, vanished and disappeared from out of and away from their hand, power and control.

Offline Daniel  
#5 Posted : Monday, November 21, 2011 2:07:14 AM(UTC)
Daniel
Joined: 10/24/2010(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: Florida

nannala wrote:
When reading,Yahousha obviously wasn't there to observe it or celebrate it, as the video claims,


He just happened to be at the temple during the Festival of Re-dedication?

It was just a co-incidence?

A co-incidence that John felt compelled to record in his narrative?

Really? I don't buy it.

nannala wrote:
and after their conversation, they definately didn't want Him there. Guess He spoiled "their" feast celebration.



;-)
Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
Offline nannala  
#6 Posted : Monday, November 21, 2011 2:39:01 AM(UTC)
nannala
Joined: 5/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 12

Yahousha happened to be in alot of places, with a lot of things to say. Why wouldn't He be there, He knew they would question Him, but to observe celebrate with those whom He said didn't trust or rely on the works, business, acts, deeds, etc., which He was doing, performig, accomplishing, executing, bringing about, etc.... "in, by, with the name and title, reputation and authority of His Father, just doesn't fit. It says what it says.


Yahushua* answered, responded and replied to them, “Has it not and does it not exist as written and recorded, inscribed and composed within and inside Your Law, the teachings and precepts, instructions and commandments of the Torah ...
Offline MadDog  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, November 22, 2011 4:35:12 AM(UTC)
MadDog
Joined: 6/19/2009(UTC)
Posts: 157
Man
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Daniel wrote:
Have you ever read Yehochanan(John) 10:22?

Again, have you ever read Yehochanan(John) 10:22?

I will grant that "Greek translations of the original Hebrew (or Aramaic) autographs of the Apostolic accounts of the life of MessiYah" would be a more accurate term than "Scripture". That term is a little awkward and christians will not know what we are talking about.

Once more, have you ever read Yehochanan(John) 10:22? Yahushau didn't seem to have a problem with it.


I have read Yahochanan 10:22 and I still do not see any evidence to indicate that Yahushau celebrated and condoned Hannukah. Yes he was there and why wouldn't he be in the set-apart place of Yahrusalem and the temple.

To me this is the same kind of reasoning christians moved the sabbath to Sunday. All because they read that the apostles gathered on the first day of the week to pray to God after the resurrection. No reason other then to create their own religion, change Yahweh's laws, and control the masses.

Daniel wrote:
This video series is an (say it with me) "OUTREACH" effort.

The pagan terms are there to provide a "Rosetta Stone" so the Christo-Pagans can understand what we are talking about.

Riddle me this, MD,: How many christians have been led to a Torah observant relationship with YHWH by your approach?

Shalom, out!


No. I'm done with outreach. I'm done with compromise.

Compromise brought us roman catholicism, islame, etc.

I don't talk to christians much, because I've been told to come out of babylon, not to waddle in the mud pit of paganism.

If anyone wants to Yada Yahweh then it's going to be on Yahweh's terms; not my terms and not their terms.

I won't step another foot in their churchs, I won't sing their songs, I won't praise their gods, I won't celebrate their
traditions or customs, I won't eat their food, I won't pretend to be one of them and speak their language in order to
convert them.

Sorry so glum, but I've had it with compromise.
Offline Walt  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, November 22, 2011 6:18:04 AM(UTC)
Walt
Joined: 10/26/2008(UTC)
Posts: 374
Man

Can't take issue with anything you said MD. In agreement

Should our focus be on methodology or message?

How did Yah present things?
How did the prophets speak?
How did MessiYah reach/speak to people?
How did Peter "outreach" on 7 7s?

SPEAK TRUTH
If one has a heart for Yah's Truth - they will respond.
MessiYah said His sheep will hear His voice (do we want to add other noise to make it harder to clearly hear?)
Offline Daniel  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, November 23, 2011 1:48:02 AM(UTC)
Daniel
Joined: 10/24/2010(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: Florida

MadDog wrote:
No. I'm done with outreach.


Noted.

Keep your destructive criticism on other people's outreach efforts (that do not meet your standards of doctrinal purity) to yourself.

Shalom, out.
Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
Offline Daniel  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, November 23, 2011 1:50:07 AM(UTC)
Daniel
Joined: 10/24/2010(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: Florida

MadDog wrote:
I'm done with outreach.


I guess that "go into all the world and preach the beneficial, healing message" does not apply to you.
Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
Offline MadDog  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, November 23, 2011 7:29:07 PM(UTC)
MadDog
Joined: 6/19/2009(UTC)
Posts: 157
Man
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Daniel wrote:
Noted.

Keep your destructive criticism on other people's outreach efforts (that do not meet your standards of doctrinal purity) to yourself.

Shalom, out.


My destructive criticism eh? Like the christian pagan doctrine isn't destructive?

And I'm trying to follow Yahweh's guidance, not yours and not from the christians.

You're the one who posted your video on this forum and if you don't want feedback then don't post it here in this forum.

Daniel wrote:
I guess that "go into all the world and preach the beneficial, healing message" does not apply to you.


Quote:
Exod:
[2] I am the Yahweh thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
[3] Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
[4] Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
[5] Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I Yahweh thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
[6] And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
[7] Thou shalt not take the name of Yahweh thy God in vain; for Yahweh will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
[8] Remember the sabbath day, to keep it set-apart.
[9] Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
[10] But the seventh day is the sabbath of Yahweh thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
[11] For in six days Yahweh made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore Yahweh blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
[12] Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which Yahweh thy God giveth thee.
[13] Thou shalt not kill.
[14] Thou shalt not commit adultery.
[15] Thou shalt not steal.
[16] Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
[17] Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.


Doesn't sound like Yahweh was conducting Outreah. Doesn't sound like Yahweh was watering down his Torah with paganism.

It's pretty simple for me. It's Yahweh or No way.
Offline Daniel  
#12 Posted : Thursday, November 24, 2011 4:49:49 AM(UTC)
Daniel
Joined: 10/24/2010(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: Florida

MadDog wrote:
Doesn't sound like Yahweh was conducting Outreah. Doesn't sound like Yahweh was watering down his Torah with paganism.


Hmmm...

Mark16 wrote:
Later, Yeshua appeared to the Eleven as they were eating, and he reproached them for their lack of trust and their spiritual insensitivity in not having believed those who had seen him after he had risen. Then he said to them, "As you go throughout the world, proclaim the Good News to all creation.


Seems as though YHWH's Son imparted some sort of notion that "Outreach" might be a good thing for us to engage in.

(Except for MadDog, of course.)
Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
Offline MadDog  
#13 Posted : Saturday, November 26, 2011 10:28:51 PM(UTC)
MadDog
Joined: 6/19/2009(UTC)
Posts: 157
Man
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Daniel wrote:
Hmmm...


Quote:
Mark16 wrote:
Later, Yeshua appeared to the Eleven as they were eating, and he reproached them for their lack of trust and their spiritual insensitivity in not having believed those who had seen him after he had risen. Then he said to them, "As you go throughout the world, proclaim the Good News to all creation


Seems as though YHWH's Son imparted some sort of notion that "Outreach" might be a good thing for us to engage in.

(Except for MadDog, of course.)


1) As I mentioned earlier, Hanukkah is not a legitimate feast.

2) Christmas is definitely pagan.

3) Mixing Yahweh's Torah with rabbinical Judaism and christianity is not beneficial and/or healing.

4) Yahoshua's outreach did not include mixing the above three.

5) Yahoshua was speaking directly to the 11 apostles, not you or I.

6) I also can not recall Yahweh charging his prophets to deliver his Torah to the gentiles. Yahweh's Torah was there for those gentiles who wanted to Yada Yahweh but it was on Yahweh's terms not the other way around.

7. Yada said it best on his BTR http://www.blogtalkradio.com/yada/2011/11/24/an-introduction-to-god?utm_source=BTRemail&utm_medium=ShowReminder
Offline Daniel  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, November 29, 2011 5:52:07 AM(UTC)
Daniel
Joined: 10/24/2010(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: Florida


MadDog wrote:

1) As I mentioned earlier, Hanukkah is not a legitimate feast.

Yeshuha didn't seem to have a problem with it!

(When He did have a problem with the going's-on-going-on at the temple, everybody knew it...)

MadDog wrote:

2) Christmas is definitely pagan.


Agreed

MadDog wrote:

3) Mixing Yahweh's Torah with rabbinical Judaism and christianity is not beneficial and/or healing.


Agreed

MadDog wrote:

4) Yahoshua's outreach did not include mixing the above three.


No one is advocating that.

MadDog wrote:

5) Yahoshua was speaking directly to the 11 apostles, not you or I.


Shouldn't we do the same things they did?

MadDog wrote:

6) I also can not recall Yahweh charging his prophets to deliver his Torah to the gentiles.


Jonah
Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
Offline cgb2  
#15 Posted : Tuesday, November 29, 2011 12:15:51 PM(UTC)
cgb2
Joined: 5/14/2010(UTC)
Posts: 689
Location: Colorado

Thanks: 16 times
Was thanked: 23 time(s) in 17 post(s)
Joh 10:1 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter through the door into the sheepfold, but climbs up by another way, that one is a thief and a robber.
Joh 10:2 “But he who enters through the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
Joh 10:3 “The doorkeeper opens for him, and the sheep hear his voice. And he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
Joh 10:4 “And when he has brought out his own sheep, he goes before them. And the sheep follow him, because they know his voice.
Joh 10:5 “And they shall by no means follow a stranger, but shall flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers.”
Joh 10:6 יהושע used this figure of speech, but they did not know what He had been saying to them.
Joh 10:7 יהושע therefore said to them again, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.
Joh 10:8 “All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
Joh 10:9 “I am the door. Whoever enters through Me, he shall be saved, and shall go in and shall go out and find pasture.
Joh 10:10 “The thief does not come except to steal, and to slaughter, and to destroy. I have come that they might possess life, and that they might possess it beyond measure.
Joh 10:11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.
Joh 10:12 “But the hireling, and not being a shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees. And the wolf snatches the sheep and scatters them.
Joh 10:13 “Now the hireling flees because he is a hireling and is not concerned about the sheep.
Joh 10:14 “I am the good shepherd.1 And I know Mine, and Mine know Me, Footnote: 1Ezek. 34:11-12, Heb. 13:20, 1 Peter 2:25, 1 Peter 5:4.
Joh 10:15 even as the Father knows Me, and I know the Father. And I lay down My life for the sheep.
Joh 10:16 “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold – I have to bring them as well, and they shall hear My voice, and there shall be one flock, one shepherd.1 Footnote: 1Ezek. 34:23, Ezek. 37:24.
Joh 10:17 “Because of this the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life, in order to receive it again.
Joh 10:18 “No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to receive it again. This command I have received from My Father.”
Joh 10:19 Again there came a division among the Yehuḏim because of these words,
Joh 10:20 and many of them said, “He has a demon and is mad, why do you listen to Him?”
Joh 10:21 Others said, “These are not the words of one possessed by a demon. Is a demon able to open the eyes of the blind?”
Joh 10:22 At that time the Ḥanukkah came to be in Yerushalayim, and it was winter.
Joh 10:23 And יהושע was walking in the Set-apart Place, in the porch of Shelomoh.
Joh 10:24 So the Yehuḏim surrounded Him and said to Him, “How long do You keep us in suspense? If You are the Messiah, say to us plainly.”
Joh 10:25 יהושע answered them, “I have told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s Name, they bear witness concerning Me.
Joh 10:26 “But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.
Joh 10:27 “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.1 Footnote: 1Rev. 14:4-5.
Joh 10:28 “And I give them everlasting life, and they shall by no means ever perish, and no one shall snatch them out of My hand.
Joh 10:29 “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. And no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.
Joh 10:30 “I and My Father are one.”1 Footnote: 1See 17:11, 17:21-23.
Joh 10:31 Again the Yehuḏim picked up stones to stone Him.
Joh 10:32 יהושע answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. Because of which of these works do you stone Me?”
Joh 10:33 The Yehuḏim answered Him, saying, “We do not stone You for a good work, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself Elohim.”
Joh 10:34 יהושע answered them, “Is it not written in your own Torah, ‘I said, “You are elohim” ’?
Joh 10:35 “If He called them elohim, to whom the word of Elohim came – and it is impossible for the Scripture to be broken –
Joh 10:36 do you say of Him whom the Father set apart and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of Elohim’?
Joh 10:37 “If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;
Joh 10:38 but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.”
Joh 10:39 Therefore they were seeking again to seize Him, but He went forth out of their hand,
Joh 10:40 and went once more to the other side of the Yardĕn to the place where Yoḥanan was immersing at first, and there He stayed.
Joh 10:41 And many came to Him and said, “Yoḥanan indeed did no sign,1 yet all that Yoḥanan said about this Man was true.” Footnote: 1Or miracle.
Joh 10:42 And many believed in Him there.
===============================

"Celebrated" is a stretch. I suppose on another occasion since Yahowsha was also walking in the temple he "celebrated" the money changers ;^)

Offline MadDog  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:55:51 AM(UTC)
MadDog
Joined: 6/19/2009(UTC)
Posts: 157
Man
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Daniel wrote:
Yeshuha didn't seem to have a problem with it!

(When He did have a problem with the going's-on-going-on at the temple, everybody knew it...)


This is obviously where we part ways Daniel. Hanukkah was not celebrated by Yahoshua, he didn't condone it, he never gave any indication by simply walking by the Temple on Hanukkah. Yahoshua had been all up and down Jerusalem for 33 years, but it doesn't mean he endorsed everything he happend to walk by.

Daniel wrote:
No one is advocating that.


You are. You're advocating it.

Daniel wrote:
Shouldn't we do the same things they did?


Not from how I understand it. Yahoshua was talking to them, specifically to them, blessed them, commissioned them, gave them Set-Apart Spirit. By advocating an outreach to christians by you delving into their religion, names, and customs then you have divided loyalties. You shall have no other gods before Yahweh.

If they want to Yada Yahweh then they need to give up their gods and come to Yahweh, on his terms, in accordance with his Torah.

Daniel wrote:
Jonah


Did Yahweh intervene with Nineveh? Sodom and Gomorrah? Egypt? During the Flood? etc.

Yes.

But Yahweh made his covenant with Abraham and his off-spring, not with those other places. Gentiles are invited but on Yahweh's terms, however they are not welcomed to bring their gods and customs. If the gentiles want to join in Yahweh's covenant then they need to turn around and walk away from Babylon.
Offline Daniel  
#17 Posted : Thursday, December 1, 2011 8:15:42 AM(UTC)
Daniel
Joined: 10/24/2010(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: Florida

MadDog wrote:
You are. You're advocating it.

Bullshit.
Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
Offline FredSnell  
#18 Posted : Friday, December 2, 2011 2:07:18 AM(UTC)
FredSnell
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Daniel wrote:
Bullshit.



The Vulcan salute....
Offline Daniel  
#19 Posted : Friday, December 2, 2011 3:56:02 AM(UTC)
Daniel
Joined: 10/24/2010(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: Florida

encounterHim wrote:
The Vulcan salute....


;-)


When reading contemporary narratives of history there are three things that we must always remember:
a) Context
2) Context
III) Context

Here is some context: In the second temple period, during the first century, "ALL" JEWS WERE CELEBRATING HANUKKAH!

That is a FACT.

We (including MadDog) are entitled to our own opinions, but we are not entitled to our own facts.

The fact is that "everybody" did celebrate Hanukkah in the first century.

In fact, rabbinic Judaism points to John's account in chapter 10 as the first written recording of the celebration of Hanukkah.

Is it a mandatory feast? No! (This is covered in the video, had MadDog bothered to watch it, he would have seen this)

Is it worshiping some other god? No! (This is covered in the video, had MadDog bothered to watch it, he would have seen this)

Is Hanukkah the "Jewish Christmas"? No! It is not supposed to be. (This is covered in the video, had MadDog bothered to watch it, he would have seen this)

Now, let's play the substitution game:

If I go to my old church and am seen walking around in the hallways on Ishtar Sun-god-day (easter sunday) is it legitimate to say that I was "in attendance, at Church, on Easter" or even perhaps "celebrating Easter"?

So let's sum up the facts, as best we can:

1) All the Jews of Yeshua's time would have celebrated Hanukkah
b) Yeshua was at the temple during the celebration of Hanukkah
C) Yeshua did not drive anyone out of the temple, turn over tables or hit anyone with a folding chair while He was at the Temple during the celebration of Hanukkah
IV) John did not record any criticism of the observance of "The Feast of Re-Dedication" coming from MessiYah's mouth
5.0) The "religious authorities" did not criticize Yeshua for "not celebrating Hanukkah" like they did regarding "ritual handwashing before meals"


MY Conclusion:

Yeshua was at the temple, participating in the celebration of Hanukkah.
He did it, I am going to do it!

Dan "No-Gelt-No-Glory" Nafe
Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
Offline Walt  
#20 Posted : Friday, December 2, 2011 5:20:55 AM(UTC)
Walt
Joined: 10/26/2008(UTC)
Posts: 374
Man

The "holiday" is a result of rabbinical Judaism and NOT of Yah - at best it is meaningless.
To claim Yahoshua observed the day because it says He went to the Temple on that day is ADDING to the text. And just because "everyone else does it" doesn't make it right or OK. So you are entitled to your own opinion, but not facts.
Offline Daniel  
#21 Posted : Friday, December 2, 2011 6:37:11 AM(UTC)
Daniel
Joined: 10/24/2010(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: Florida

Walt wrote:
The "holiday" is a result of rabbinical Judaism and NOT of Yah - at best it is meaningless.


Never said it was a holy-day.

Stop adding to MY text!

;-)

Hanukkah is NOT a product of rabbinic Judaism.

"Rabbinic Judaism" didn't even exist in the first century!

Walt, watch the video, THEN comment!
Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
Offline Walt  
#22 Posted : Friday, December 2, 2011 1:20:27 PM(UTC)
Walt
Joined: 10/26/2008(UTC)
Posts: 374
Man

Daniel wrote:
Never said it was a holy-day.

Stop adding to MY text!

;-)

Hanukkah is NOT a product of rabbinic Judaism.

"Rabbinic Judaism" didn't even exist in the first century!

Walt, watch the video, THEN comment!

Didn't say you called it a holy day - but it IS classified as a holiday.
It may not have been formally called rabbinical Judaism then, that's what it was (a false religion) - it's what Yahoshua railed against - it's what Yah is calling His people out of.

Why do I want to watch a video from a teacher of a false religion - that's what christianity IS and he is one and promotes it - don't want to do a u-turn and start going back in the wrong direction
Offline Daniel  
#23 Posted : Saturday, December 3, 2011 1:09:52 PM(UTC)
Daniel
Joined: 10/24/2010(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: Florida

Walt wrote:
Didn't say you called it a holy day - but it IS classified as a holiday.


And in the video, we are attempting to put The Festival of Re-dedication back into it's proper place.

(If you had bothered to watch the video, you would have seen that.)

Walt wrote:
It may not have been formally called rabbinical Judaism then, that's what it was (a false religion) - it's what Yahoshua railed against


HE DID NOT RAIL AGAINST HANUKKAH!

(I think I gottcha, there!)

Walt wrote:
Why do I want to watch a video from a teacher of a false religion - that's what christianity IS and he is one and promotes it - don't want to do a u-turn and start going back in the wrong direction


It is okay to be judgmental, except when you are WRONG.

In this case, Walt, your judgement is WRONG!

First, if you are going to pass judgements, it is your DUTY to at least hear the evidence.

Second, Missick is not a "christian", he is one of two "Messianic" ministers in the US Army Chaplin Corps.

He is also the leader of a congregation of Torah observant followers of YHWH that has holy convocations on Shabbat.

(If you had bothered to watch the video, you would have seen that.)

I am sure that Missick does not approach YOUR level of righteousness, but at least he is out there trying to spread the good word.

You and MadDog have unjustly judged this video and this man WITHOUT EVEN LOOKING AT IT.

I am not saying that you have to watch/listen/read everything that comes along.

I am, as a member of this online "assembly", now DEMANDING that you at least give this video that Missick and I made a fair hearing.

I know my demand carries no weight, but the two of you are really not behaving justly.

Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
Offline Walt  
#24 Posted : Saturday, December 3, 2011 1:38:09 PM(UTC)
Walt
Joined: 10/26/2008(UTC)
Posts: 374
Man

Daniel wrote:



HE DID NOT RAIL AGAINST HANUKKAH!

(I think I gottcha, there!)


Well you thought WRONG - reread - didn't say He railed against hanukkah, said He railed against rabbinical Judaism (religion/traditions of men), which is what hanukkah is
Daniel wrote:


It is okay to be judgmental, except when you are WRONG.

In this case, Walt, your judgement is WRONG!

First, if you are going to pass judgements, it is your DUTY to at least hear the evidence.

Second, Missick is not a "christian", he is one of two "Messianic" ministers in the US Army Chaplin Corps.

He is also the leader of a congregation of Torah observant followers of YHWH that has holy convocations on Shabbat.

(If you had bothered to watch the video, you would have seen that.)

I am sure that Missick does not approach YOUR level of righteousness, but at least he is out there trying to spread the good word.

You and MadDog have unjustly judged this video and this man WITHOUT EVEN LOOKING AT IT.

I am not saying that you have to watch/listen/read everything that comes along.

I am, as a member of this online "assembly", now DEMANDING that you at least give this video that Missick and I made a fair hearing.

I know my demand carries no weight, but the two of you are really not behaving justly.


"DEMAND" all you want.
I research WHO Missick is, The places selling his books show him to be a chritian - his facebook page has him claiming to be a "minister of the gospel, which makes him promoting a false religion.

When you have to resort to personal attacks as you are doing, rather then debate the issues, then you have lost and I have no use in further engagement with you. I didn't attack you personally, just the religion you are promoting.
Offline In His Name  
#25 Posted : Saturday, December 3, 2011 6:26:58 PM(UTC)
In His Name
Joined: 9/7/2008(UTC)
Posts: 550

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Daniel,

I have heard you talk about the joy you have found in finding a group that you could celebrate with. I have been envious of it. I have wished I could find someplace where I could feel “at home”. But every time I have investigated a messianic group I have been disappointed.

It is more than not agreeing on every point, it is the blending of truth and untruth (same old religious story). Now, you say Yeshua, using modern Hebrew (mis)pronunciation. Now, you want to add hanukka to your list of feasts. I don’t know enough about it to say there is anything wrong with hanukka, other than it is not of Yah. And if it is not of Yah, then it is not for me. It is a secular jewish event. Trying to add it to Yah's Way is blatantly wrong, it confuses and muddies the water.

And that is my problem with messianics. It is jewish christianity. Half Judaism (rabbinic and secular) and half Christian (Paul). Yes, it is good that they have noticed there are some pages that come before Matthew 1:1, but I can’t accept the rest of it.

For me, and it sounds like Walt and Maddog as well, I have to say no thanks. That doesn’t belong here.

Allen
“Because he clings to Me, is joined to Me, loves and delights in Me, desires Me, therefore I will deliver him, carry him safely away, cause him to escape from harm making him inaccessible and strong, and delivering him safely to heaven, because he has known, observed, cared for, recognized, instructed and advised others to use, designated, acknowledged, discerned, answered in, My name, authority, character, report, mark, and nature." Psalm 91:14
Offline Daniel  
#26 Posted : Monday, December 5, 2011 3:09:04 AM(UTC)
Daniel
Joined: 10/24/2010(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: Florida

In His Name wrote:
And that is my problem with messianics. It is jewish christianity. Half Judaism (rabbinic and secular) and half Christian (Paul). Yes, it is good that they have noticed there are some pages that come before Matthew 1:1, but I can’t accept the rest of it.


You cannot paint "all messianics" with a broad brush and condemn them as teachers of false religion.

Different people are at different places on their walk.
Some messianics are nothing more than "Hebrew Christians + Wannabe Jews", some are "ConservOdox Jews who believe Yeshuaha is MessiYah but still where the beards and hats", some have removed "Paul" from their "canon" and eschew religiosity of any ilk (I am in this category) and others are somewhere in between.

(But of course, none have approached the level of righteousness that you, MadDog, and Walt have.) (Walt is now so wise that he can judge the content of a video without even screening it!)


In His Name wrote:
For me, and it sounds like Walt and Maddog as well, I have to say no thanks. That doesn’t belong here.


Some one higher than (you three) on the YY food chain is going to have to ban me from this forum.


While I am no fan of Martin Luther King, (or Martin Luther, for that matter), but he did correctly point out that people should be judged by their words and deeds, rather than their external appearances (and titles).

Allen, you, MadDog and Walt come off sounding like a bunch of real assholes. I know you don't think that you sound like that, but it seems that way to me. (I could be wrong.) I don't even think you guys are really like that, but, wow, stop being such a bunch of jerks!

Condemning me as a teacher of false religion because of how my linux machine's spell checker munges the transliteration of The Master's name?

Really?

It seems that I learned, here, (some where, YY, TOM, POD..., some where here) that with regard to transliteration, "anything goes".

Please consider being a little more charitable to others who are at different points on their walk.
Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
Offline In His Name  
#27 Posted : Monday, December 5, 2011 5:51:09 AM(UTC)
In His Name
Joined: 9/7/2008(UTC)
Posts: 550

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Daniel,

You have misjudged my content and attitude, an unfortunate consequence of the limits of textual communication. I have no desire that you be banned from this forum. I simply meant to say that I did not think that Hanukkah belonged here, but that is only my opinion. I enjoyed and even reveled in your Tabernacles posting. I am not against you.

Daniel wrote:
You cannot paint "all messianics" with a broad brush and condemn them as teachers of false religion.


I did not mean to demean all messianics. My experience locally is the groups I have checked out are steeped in Paul and traditional Jewish beliefs. I certainly do not mean to say that any individual, regardless of religious affiliation is lost. We are however, called to judge everything against the Truth of the Torah. So if it is not FROM TORAH it is not FOR ME.


Daniel wrote:
(But of course, none have approached the level of righteousness that you, MadDog, and Walt have.) (Walt is now so wise that he can judge the content of a video without even screening it!)
Allen, you, MadDog and Walt come off sounding like a bunch of real assholes. I know you don't think that you sound like that, but it seems that way to me. (I could be wrong.) I don't even think you guys are really like that, but, wow, stop being such a bunch of jerks!


Unfortunately some textual communication intent is obvious

Daniel wrote:
Some one higher than (you three) on the YY food chain is going to have to ban me from this forum.


I didn’t ask for that, neither did I wish for it or even think of it.


Daniel wrote:
Condemning me as a teacher of false religion because of how my linux machine's spell checker munges the transliteration of The Master's name?

Really?


I condemned you? Really?

Daniel wrote:
It seems that I learned, here, (some where, YY, TOM, POD..., some where here) that with regard to transliteration, "anything goes".


I don’t recall ‘anything goes’ from any of those sources. My personal belief is that we need to do everything possible to honor Him by getting His name correct. He left us enough statements to for us to realize that His Name is important to Him. ‘Anything goes’ is why we lost His name in the first place.

Daniel wrote:
Please consider being a little more charitable to others who are at different points on their walk.


I did not jump into this heated discussion to pile on, I am sorry if it felt like that.

“Because he clings to Me, is joined to Me, loves and delights in Me, desires Me, therefore I will deliver him, carry him safely away, cause him to escape from harm making him inaccessible and strong, and delivering him safely to heaven, because he has known, observed, cared for, recognized, instructed and advised others to use, designated, acknowledged, discerned, answered in, My name, authority, character, report, mark, and nature." Psalm 91:14
Offline Daniel  
#28 Posted : Monday, December 5, 2011 8:44:45 AM(UTC)
Daniel
Joined: 10/24/2010(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: Florida

In His Name wrote:
I don’t recall ‘anything goes’ from any of those sources.


I may have picked up that 'rule' of transliteration elsewhere.

(I look at many different sources when cross-checking things that I read here. They almost always check out!)

(Ooops! I said "cross"! Now I have to put a dollar in the 'cuss-box'!)

In His Name wrote:
My personal belief is that we need to do everything possible to honor Him by getting His name correct.


Agreed.

Too bad my linux box at work and/or my iPhone doesn't feel the same way!
Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
Offline Daniel  
#29 Posted : Monday, December 5, 2011 8:46:36 AM(UTC)
Daniel
Joined: 10/24/2010(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: Florida

Daniel wrote:
I may have picked up that 'rule' of transliteration elsewhere.


The 'rule' was that any combination of letters, symbols, accent marks or cave paintings that get you to pronounce the word properly is ok.
Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
Offline MadDog  
#30 Posted : Wednesday, December 7, 2011 12:25:46 PM(UTC)
MadDog
Joined: 6/19/2009(UTC)
Posts: 157
Man
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Daniel wrote:
Bullshit.


Daniel wrote:
Allen, you, MadDog and Walt come off sounding like a bunch of real assholes. I know you don't think that you sound like that, but it seems that way to me. (I could be wrong.) I don't even think you guys are really like that, but, wow, stop being such a bunch of jerks!


Daniel wrote:
(Ooops! I said "cross"! Now I have to put a dollar in the 'cuss-box'!).


You use real cuss words and then apologize because you said "cross." I do have some choice words for you wise guy that I won't write here.

If you don't won't feedback because YOU posted a video that people here don't agree with then don't post it and above all else don't whine about the criticism like a baby when we do Daniel!

The only one acting like their above criticism is you Daniel! You're the one acting as if surprised that people here would have a problem promoting a quasi-christian/messianic video.

Daniel wrote:
You and MadDog have unjustly judged this video and this man WITHOUT EVEN LOOKING AT IT.


You are wrong again Daniel, I did look at it and I disagree with it. I will not pretend to YY by pretending to be in lock step with the religion I am trying to get away from! Not for you, not for Missick, not for anyone!

Daniel wrote:
First, if you are going to pass judgements, it is your DUTY to at least hear the evidence.

Second, Missick is not a "christian", he is one of two "Messianic" ministers in the US Army Chaplin Corps.

He is also the leader of a congregation of Torah observant followers of YHWH that has holy convocations on Shabbat.


Yes, I can and will pass judgment using Yahweh's Torah and I will not take Missick's lead just because he ministers in the US Army Chaplin Corps and especially since he has "holy" convocations on Shabbat. Call them christian or messianics it doens't matter.

We are required to judge and my judgment says you (Daniel) and Missick are promoting a doctrine I do not want any part of.

And I will not take that back.
Offline Daniel  
#31 Posted : Thursday, December 8, 2011 7:35:41 AM(UTC)
Daniel
Joined: 10/24/2010(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: Florida

MadDog wrote:
We are required to judge and my judgment says you (Daniel) and Missick are promoting a doctrine I do not want any part of.


I am promoting no doctrine. I have read the translations of the first hand accounts of the followers of MessiYah and I believe that He participated in the Festival of Re-dedication.

(I could be wrong!)

Suggesting that others might want to consider joining in to the celebration is a far [CUSS]-ing cry from promoting a doctrine.

How about we wrap this stupid flame-war with this:

1) Some people think that Yaheshua participated in the Hanukkah celebration and cite John 10 as their reference.
2) Some people think that He did not participate.
3) I use way too many cuss-words.
4) There is no record of MessiYah condemning Hanukkah.
Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
Offline lassie1865  
#32 Posted : Thursday, December 8, 2011 2:07:10 PM(UTC)
lassie1865
Joined: 2/18/2008(UTC)
Posts: 309
Woman
Location: Colorado

I have been putting together 7 glass long-stemmed candlesticks to serve as a menorah; I found one taller candlestick to serve as the center one that has a cobalt blue cup -- it's very pretty; I am going to get floating wicks to burn in olive oil. I thought it would be a nice idea to introduce God's lampstand to the granddaughters - Hanukkah would be a good time to teach them about cleansing/removing pagan influences from our lives.
Offline Walt  
#33 Posted : Thursday, December 8, 2011 3:25:46 PM(UTC)
Walt
Joined: 10/26/2008(UTC)
Posts: 374
Man

lassie1865 wrote:
I have been putting together 7 glass long-stemmed candlesticks to serve as a menorah; I found one taller candlestick to serve as the center one that has a cobalt blue cup -- it's very pretty; I am going to get floating wicks to burn in olive oil. I thought it would be a nice idea to introduce God's lampstand to the granddaughters - Hanukkah would be a good time to teach them about cleansing/removing pagan influences from our lives.


BEAUTIFUL sister, think we're going to borrow your idea.
Offline Daniel  
#34 Posted : Friday, December 9, 2011 2:03:07 AM(UTC)
Daniel
Joined: 10/24/2010(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: Florida

lassie1865 wrote:
Hanukkah would be a good time to teach them about cleansing/removing pagan influences from our lives.



That is what Hanukkah is all about!
Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
Offline cgb2  
#35 Posted : Friday, December 9, 2011 3:14:23 AM(UTC)
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Sounds nice. Also good it's 7 and not 9
Offline lassie1865  
#36 Posted : Friday, December 9, 2011 12:19:39 PM(UTC)
lassie1865
Joined: 2/18/2008(UTC)
Posts: 309
Woman
Location: Colorado

Yes, that is why I had to put it together myself. I went to a 'Judaica' store in Denver to look at menorahs last year; I asked why they didn't have a 7-branched model; they answered that it was because they believed that the 7-branched menorah was only authorized for the Temple, and, therefore, could not be used in the home. So, we will have a 7-cup, long stemmed glass oil-burning setup with floating wicks on olive oil. I'll post a photo when I get it all together. I just bought some floating wicks today -- at the same Judaica store in Denver . . .
Offline Daniel  
#37 Posted : Sunday, December 11, 2011 3:52:28 AM(UTC)
Daniel
Joined: 10/24/2010(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: Florida

lassie1865 wrote:
So, we will have a 7-cup, long stemmed glass oil-burning setup with floating wicks on olive oil.

Oil burning! Very authentic! Nice.
Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
Offline Walt  
#38 Posted : Friday, December 16, 2011 6:37:55 AM(UTC)
Walt
Joined: 10/26/2008(UTC)
Posts: 374
Man

Did Yahowsha EVER "celebrate" anything/anytime at The Temple?
As I recall & remember, whenever He went to The Temple, He was confrontational to the religious leadership and establishment.

It was His Father's Temple and it was being "occupied" by people diverting & misleading His sheep away from Yahowah - I don't see Him doing any-kind of "celebrating" with them.
Offline bigritchie  
#39 Posted : Friday, December 16, 2011 11:58:58 AM(UTC)
bigritchie
Joined: 4/15/2010(UTC)
Posts: 305
Location: USA

Me and some of my old Marine Corps buddies celebrate the Marine Corps birthday and have a few beers and laugh about old times. It is "tradition" and is a "man-made" feast day. That sure does not mean I do not get together with buddies and have fun and enjoy it. (I personally do not think the Creator of the Universe is going to hate me forever, because I kept a "feast" that was not in that book!)

Messianic dogma aside, why wouldn't Y'shua go hang out with everyone and have a great time celebrating the holiday? It is not pagan. Everyone knows it isn't in the Torah. It is simply some fun Jewish Culture. Dan Certainly is not telling everyone that it is a "law" or that you are going to hell if you do not keep it.

I think the real historical Jesus would be very different then all of our opinions of him. (Not to mention if you read closely the prophets have something to say about various feast, and how the Creator feels about them, and even ask over and over "WHY in the WORLD are you sacrificing animals, I did NOT tell you to do that"

So anyways, my advice. Have fun, eat lots of fresh fruit and veggies, and enjoy life. :-)
Offline Walt  
#40 Posted : Friday, December 16, 2011 2:17:17 PM(UTC)
Walt
Joined: 10/26/2008(UTC)
Posts: 374
Man

I think the comparison is over-simplistic and inaccurate.

The religious leadership were Yahosha's enemies (not pals like your marine brothers) - not just at that present time, but at the time hanukkah was established by the religious leaders. His words were never kind or festive towards either group

No matter how it is shaped, hanukkah is a religious holiday by false religious leaders that point people in the wrong direction - I think "come out of her My people" fits

Now if you said you sit down with al qaeda on one of their celebrations, that would be a more accurate comparison (the religious leader DID want Yahosha dead after all)

And your reference about what Yah said through the prophets - it was aimed at the SAME group
Offline Daniel  
#41 Posted : Tuesday, December 20, 2011 9:47:10 AM(UTC)
Daniel
Joined: 10/24/2010(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: Florida

bigritchie wrote:
Me and some of my old Marine Corps buddies celebrate the Marine Corps birthday and have a few beers and laugh about old times. It is "tradition" and is a "man-made" feast day.


I confess, that I, too am guilty of this particular sin.

A really good Marine Corps Birthday celebration should carry on well into Veteran's Day.

(For you slimey-civilians out there this means that party starts on November 10th and should go on into the 11th.)
("Carrier-Quals" usually begin at about 0230 on the 11th)


bigritchie wrote:
Messianic dogma aside, why wouldn't Y'shua go hang out with everyone and have a great time celebrating the holiday? It is not pagan. Everyone knows it isn't in the Torah. It is simply some fun Jewish Culture. Dan Certainly is not telling everyone that it is a "law" or that you are going to hell if you do not keep it.


Indeed.

Lighting our first candle tonight!
Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
Offline MadDog  
#42 Posted : Friday, December 23, 2011 2:38:49 PM(UTC)
MadDog
Joined: 6/19/2009(UTC)
Posts: 157
Man
Location: San Antonio, Texas

bigritchie wrote:
Me and some of my old Marine Corps buddies celebrate the Marine Corps birthday and have a few beers and laugh about old times. It is "tradition" and is a "man-made" feast day. That sure does not mean I do not get together with buddies and have fun and enjoy it. (I personally do not think the Creator of the Universe is going to hate me forever, because I kept a "feast" that was not in that book!)


That has nothing to do with what is being discussed. Trying to connect Yahoshua with Hannukkah doesn't work because "scripture" simply does not say Yahoshua celebrated Hannukkah at all because it tries to bridge a gap between the Torah, Yahoshua, the Talmud, the Maccabees, etc.

bigritchie wrote:
Messianic dogma aside, why wouldn't Y'shua go hang out with everyone and have a great time celebrating the holiday? It is not pagan. Everyone knows it isn't in the Torah. It is simply some fun Jewish Culture. Dan Certainly is not telling everyone that it is a "law" or that you are going to hell if you do not keep it.


Yahoshua did celebrate Yahweh's seven called out feasts, but it doesn't say he celebrated Hannukkah. Again it is leading people away for Yahweh's seven called out feasts towards rabbincal judaism.

Quote:
Matt.23

[13] But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
[14] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
[15] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
[24] Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.


Hey, why not just celebrate christmas, easter and halloween while we're at it? It's all in good fun. They are pagan, but what the heck, it's just so we can do some out reach and spread the good and beneficial message.

Hannukkah isn't pagan per se, but it doesn't lead to Yahweh, it leads to rabbincal judaism and the talmud.

bigritchie wrote:
I think the real historical Jesus would be very different then all of our opinions of him. (Not to mention if you read closely the prophets have something to say about various feast, and how the Creator feels about them, and even ask over and over "WHY in the WORLD are you sacrificing animals, I did NOT tell you to do that"!)


And lastly Yahweh did have animal sacrifice on his feasts.
Offline Daniel  
#43 Posted : Saturday, December 24, 2011 10:52:40 AM(UTC)
Daniel
Joined: 10/24/2010(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: Florida

MadDog wrote:
Yahoshua did celebrate Yahweh's seven called out feasts, but it doesn't say he celebrated Hannukkah.


...and Yochannon doesn't say that He didn't.

(If you will pardon the double negative!)

Shalom, out.
Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
Offline In His Name  
#44 Posted : Saturday, December 24, 2011 6:38:25 PM(UTC)
In His Name
Joined: 9/7/2008(UTC)
Posts: 550

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Daniel wrote:
...and Yochannon doesn't say that He didn't.

(If you will pardon the double negative!)

Shalom, out.


...and Yochannon doesn't say that He didn't marry Mary Magdalene,
doesn't say that he didn't travel to India to study with the Hindu's,
doesn't say that he didn't come to North America to teach the American Indians,
doesn't say that he didn't drive a porsche!

You can't prove something with nothing.

I think you ask for pardon because you subconsciously know that your double negging adds up to a meaningless grouping of words.
“Because he clings to Me, is joined to Me, loves and delights in Me, desires Me, therefore I will deliver him, carry him safely away, cause him to escape from harm making him inaccessible and strong, and delivering him safely to heaven, because he has known, observed, cared for, recognized, instructed and advised others to use, designated, acknowledged, discerned, answered in, My name, authority, character, report, mark, and nature." Psalm 91:14
Offline Daniel  
#45 Posted : Sunday, December 25, 2011 5:14:38 AM(UTC)
Daniel
Joined: 10/24/2010(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: Florida

The tone many of you guys take is repulsive.
Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
Offline In His Name  
#46 Posted : Sunday, December 25, 2011 7:49:57 AM(UTC)
In His Name
Joined: 9/7/2008(UTC)
Posts: 550

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Or perhaps you are reading into the text what is not there.
“Because he clings to Me, is joined to Me, loves and delights in Me, desires Me, therefore I will deliver him, carry him safely away, cause him to escape from harm making him inaccessible and strong, and delivering him safely to heaven, because he has known, observed, cared for, recognized, instructed and advised others to use, designated, acknowledged, discerned, answered in, My name, authority, character, report, mark, and nature." Psalm 91:14
Offline Daniel  
#47 Posted : Monday, December 26, 2011 3:29:48 AM(UTC)
Daniel
Joined: 10/24/2010(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: Florida

In His Name wrote:
doesn't say that he didn't drive a porsche!


Of course not! He was Jewish, he would drive a Mercedes!

(or perhaps a Cadillac)

In His Name wrote:
You can't prove something with nothing.


No, you cannot prove something with nothing, but Inductive Logic is allowed.

Sometimes what is NOT said is important, too. By reading chapter 7 of Mark's account we can induce that Yeshua seems to have practiced ritual hand washing before eating meals.

(The religious guys said 'how come your followers don't all do the hand washing thing?' rather than 'why don't YOU do the hand washing thing?' The logical leap being that if He hadn't done 'the hand washing thing' they would have jumped all over that.)

I think that it is legitimate to logically induce that Yahushua washed His hands before meals in the traditional manner and participated in Hanukkah for the same reason: Both of these practices honor YHWH. I could be wrong.

The texts that we have allow for this conclusion to be logically made, they do not speak against it, but they do not definitively support it either.

Brothers, we can have different interpretations of the material. If you don't want to participate in Hanukkah, or wash your hands before meals for that matter, don't do it. NO ONE IS SAYING YOU MUST!

(But I did see a sign that stated "Employees must wash hands before returning to work.")
Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
Offline MadDog  
#48 Posted : Wednesday, December 28, 2011 5:08:05 PM(UTC)
MadDog
Joined: 6/19/2009(UTC)
Posts: 157
Man
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Daniel wrote:
The tone many of you guys take is repulsive.


Ditto.

Daniel wrote:
I could be wrong.


Yes, you are wrong.

Daniel wrote:
Brothers, we can have different interpretations of the material. If you don't want to participate in Hanukkah, or wash your hands before meals for that matter, don't do it. NO ONE IS SAYING YOU MUST!


The problem I have with Hannukkah is that it can lead people (even more) away from Yahweh to rabbinical judaism. I did for a couple of years tried to observe hannukah but it didn't take because of it's religious trappings.

Christians, mooooslimes, and jews have a massive edge on controlling Yahweh's message and hannukah is just another step away from the narrow path Yahweh has paved for us.

You may know the difference and recognize the fine line, but others will not and there you are encouraging a seemingly innocent step in the wrong direction.
Offline Walt  
#49 Posted : Thursday, December 29, 2011 4:35:47 AM(UTC)
Walt
Joined: 10/26/2008(UTC)
Posts: 374
Man

Again agree with you MadDog
It's not of Yah, it's not part of path to His Way, so at minimum it's an irrelevant diversion.
Offline nannala  
#50 Posted : Friday, December 30, 2011 3:16:07 AM(UTC)
nannala
Joined: 5/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 12

“You should not continue to add things (lo’ yasap – you should not incessantly increase or consistently incorporate something else (hiphil imperfect)), coming with and bringing (la bow’ – arriving with wanting to include (hiphil infinitive construct)) an offering (minchah – presenting and sacrificing) which is futile and worthless, pagan and idolatrous (shawa’ – vain and spurious, forged or counterfeit) while burning incense (qatoreth). It (hy’) is an abomination, a disgusting ritual, a repugnant religious practice, and a form of worship which is repulsive (tow’ebah – a loathsome and abhorrent thing, idolatrous and adulterous, objectionable and of the occult, ethically and morally inappropriate and corrupting) to Me (la).” (Yasha’yah / Yah Saves / Isaiah 1:13)
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