John 16:13a "But when He comes, the Spirit of the Truth, He shall guide you into all truth." I notice some people refer to the Spirit as a 'she', but here the word 'he' is used. I know the Spirit has feminine characteristics but which is more correct, he or she?

Matthew, looking at Strong's (which I understand isn't the most accurate, since is supports the KJV) it would seem that "He" was not there in the original. The word ekeinos means literally "that one" with no sex implied. Though, the word can be used to mean "he", I suspect that it can also be used to mean "she". It would seem to me that the translators just assumed that it is "he". Also, someone correct me if I am wrong, I believe that the word pneuma for "Spirit" happens to be a feminine noun, just like the Hebrew Ruach.

While the Hebrew ascribes a feminine noun to the the Ruach Qodesh, and KP's understanding of "honouring your father and mother" is spot on, I also wish to let it be understood that we are to honour our physical parents, and that in doing so our lives here on earth would also be probably be prolonged. I have seen people disrespect their parents and fade into oblivion early in life, while those that respected their parents lived longer. (I of course do not mean to say that those who died young dishonoured their parents.) Perhaps it is Oriental thinking... but I think that there are a lot of benefits for having a healthy respect for one's parents and elders.

I concur

wow - interesting find there Mike :)

First we need to remeber that Adam was made in the likeness of his Father, then even before that Yahwehs spirit which is Yahweh brooded over the Earth in Genesis 1:1.
In Matthew Mary was made pregnant by the Holy Spirit, by which she concieved a son our saviour Yahshua.

Yahwehs spirit is Yahweh, Adam was made in Yahwehs likeness, Mary was made pregnat by the Holy Spirit, Yahshua said I will send the comfortor, The promissed Holy Spirit who will link us to the Father in Truth, and reveal himself to us by that power.

Try not to spend time slicing and dicing the simple message of Salvation, lets spend our time leading others to the same truth many of us have and that is we are saved by accepting Christ(Yahshua) the Messiah as our Saviour, for I can testify that I have for 25 years have had a personal relationship with the Father, and have had the Holy Spirits power in my life long before this forum or the internet existed. If you are born again you will know the truth, and Yahwehs Spirit will reveal it to you even if we are reading imprpoperley transliterated texts, the power of the Father reaches beyond these things, and if it were not so then how would I have been able to have been saved?

The Word says that the Holy Spirit will lead you into right doctrine, and only HE can be trusted, not even Craig Winn in all of his research, and his translations can change what the Father has in store for us. The meesage of salvation was made simple so that all may come to know the Father, I could not began to see how anyone could even begin to understand what Craig writes, because you have to have a Doctorate in Literature, and English, just to understand what he is writing.

I appreciate Craigs endeavors into deeper understanding and research, of our History, test it with the power of the Holy Spirit, and make sure you here the voice of the Father before accepting anyones views or research, remember what Paul was saying to the Galatians, the Ephsians, the Phillipians, and the Collasians, If the Laws could save you there would have been no reason for Christ (Yahshua) the Messiah to come. If that were the case the why do we even have the new Covenant, because the laws could not save us before Christ how could they save us now!!!!!

I didn't have any difficulty understanding cw's writing either (though my wife couldn't process any of it).

Good Morning Everyone,

So note that this subject is regarding the gender of sorts of the Set Apart Spirit. We can all look at the words and probably split hairs over our opinions but truth is still truth. Bringing up opinions of Yada Yahweh or Craig Winn does not belong in this area so I would hope all would refrain and focus at the task at hand.

We have all had our fair share of lie and betrayals that have led us to the point we now find ourselves in, but thanks be to Yah for his foundations and truths that have been the same since time began.

Blessings
Tiffany

Have to agree with Tiffany!

And to mention the reason I started this topic is because I've seen some people use 'He' and others using 'She' when referring to the Set Apart Spirit. I just wanted to clear it up for myself, and discuss the role of the Spirit in our lives and world. And to be certain of the correct use we need to dig through translation errors, we have to slice and dice in other words, to get to the truth of the matter.

Shalom All and Welcome Galatian35!

I read with interest Galatian35's statements and wonder, "Can error lead to Truth?" and "When shall we know Truth?" When experts claim that the bible is riddled with 300,000 errors how do you find Truth? True, we need the Spirit of Yahweh to determine Truth, no matter what we hear and read, for the things of Yahweh can only be know by the Spirit of Yahweh, just as the things of man can only be known by the spirit of man (and not animals).

If we do not read and dissect Yahweh's Word, and understand what every letter and word means, how can we catch the nuances that may be most important in our learning and understanding of whom our Messiyah is and why The Sacrifice was necessary? If I were to approach a pagan living in Italy in ancient Roman times (or even now) and said that a dead man crucified by the Roman army has come back to life and is God, and is willing to make you like him if you are willing to live and die like he did, you would think I am crazy! There is much that has to be explained, and we need words and time to do that, and Yahweh spent thousands of years to do just that, verbally and through Scripture.

We see many hundreds of millions of people now believing that they have the Holy Spirit, and many millions of them spend a lot of time in prayer. But is it right that they pray in error? That they do not really know the meaning of The Sacrifice and why and how they are "saved"? Saved from what? And for what? And does the Holy Spirit that they have guide them in the Ways of Yahushua so that they walk in step with our Father Yahweh? How would they know if they are not taught? And would they not be taught by Word, whether spoken or written? And who is to determine whether what is spoken or written is the Truth?

Much time has been spent on learning Scripture like the Bereans because "in them we find Life" and the more we learn the more we understand what our destiny and the fate of the world. We begin to understand things that have been lost and are now recovered and important. True we do not know how much is in store for us but we are getting glimpses through the Word. And this is much more than the rest of the world knows today. Should we feel proud? No, we feel humbled. All our understanding has only made each of us fully realise that we are truly sinners in need of Yahushua's Sacrifice.

CW's and KP's writings are not the rantings of academics bent on glory. We read them because they have been gifted in making clear much of Scripture. But understanding Scripture is of little use if we do not do the things that we are asked to do.

For instance, it does not take much understanding to know that the Sabbaths belong to Yahweh and also identifies His followers, but is the world willing to keep the Sabbaths? Do Christians keep the Sabbaths or say, "Never mind, you know that I worship you, Heavenly Father, and that is all that matters. I must have the Holy Spirit or else I cannot confess that Jesus is God, so therefore I must be saved because You said so. And if I do not observe a few of the other things that You said to do it is because of the world's conditions today and I am unable to do so, but being a loving God you must understand and excuse my belligerence."

There is much for each of us to learn and experience as we grow. We fall every now and then, but we must stick to the narrow path. The good news is that since the path is narrow, He has offered to lighten the burden. Do we believe Him and do as asked or doubt Him still? If He identifies Himself as Yahushua, we know that that is true. If he identifies Himself as the Ruach Qodesh or Set-Apart Spirit, then that is true also. If Yahweh reveals the nature of the Set-Apart Spirit as masculine we would accept it also. But so far the words used have been feminine! And it fits with the nature of the Ruach Qodesh. Is it important to know whether male or female? Not really, but the exercise helps! It seems that there is neither male nor female in the spirit world, so male or female only helps us identify the nature of the Ruach Qodesh now, not the identity.

At this website, it is important for us to take the time to express some of our thoughts properly otherwise we risk walking in error or lead others into error. My personal concern here is that I stand to lose contact with true members of the Family who have been misdirected, thinking that whatever they are doing is acceptable.

We must also remember that this is not a numbers game! If it was a numbers game what chance do we have if Yahushua only had a dozen or so real followers while He was still alive? If it was a numbers game would not Yahushua have done a better job than us lowly sinners? And at the end of the first century when all the apostles and the thousands annointed at Pentecost had died, why were there only a few thousand faithful believers left scattered across the region? I submit to everyone here that we are not in the numbers game! We have been called to know and love Yahweh, and to teach others the same. We are called to spread the good news about the coming Kingdom of Yahweh. We shall work to bring back to the Family those who are scattered and lost. And we shall work on our imperfections while relying on His Grace and Love and Mercy to guide and guard us on this path, while humbly accepting the gift of The Sacrifice. This message we can convey to all without sophistication.

Let’s keep it simple, Yah did not reveal to us that the Ruach Qodesh was male, the words and actions line up as female. The reasoning for this is to make it easier for us to identify with Yah because in our small brains we need that. I have never had more freedom then I do now because I understand more of the character of Yah, simply it was a relief to know there was a feminine portion of Yah that was just like me! I work everyday to be more like a child of Yah practicing and watching just a like any child does to mimic their parents.

Tiffany

when scripture says He I do not think its trying to say God spirit haves a sex but its not a force like cults try to say but a real conviction spirit.

The greek gives alot of pro-nouns to The holy spirit to say its a person not a it or force.

his is taken from my greek strong lexicon

he use or absence of the article in The original where the Holy spirit is spoken of cannot always be decided by grammatical rules. nor can the presence or absence of the article alone determine whether the reference is to the holy spirit. Examples where the PERSON is meant when the article is absent are matt 22:43 mark 12:36 acts 4:25 19:2,6 ; Rom 14:17 ; 1 cor 2:4 ; gal 5:25 twice 1 peter 1:2. Sometimes the absence is to be counted for by the fact that Pneuma like Theos is substantially a PROPER name , e.g. , in john 7:39. As a general rule the article is present where the subject of the teaching is PERSONALITY of the holy spirit, John 14:26. where HE is spoken of in DISTINCTION from the father and the son. See also 15:26 and cp. Luke 3:22.

IN gal. 3:3 in the phrase " having begun in the spirit," it is difficult to say whether the reference is to the holy spirit or to the quickened spirit of the believer ; that it possibly refers to the latter is not to be determine by the absence of the article. but by the contrast " the flesh ; " on other hand. the contrast may be between the holy spirit who is in the believer sets His seal on the perfect work of Christ, and the flesh which seeks to better itself by works of it own. There is no preposition before either Noun. and if the reference is to the quickened spirit it cannot be dissociated from the operation of the holy spirit. IN gal 4;29 the phrase " after the spirit signifies by supernatural power, ' in contrast to " after the flesh by natural power and the refrence must be to the holy spirit. 5:17

The full title with the article before both pneuma and hagios [ the "resumptive " use of the article ] lit., ' the spirit the holy,' stressed the CHARACTER of the PERSON, e.g., matt 12:32 mark 3;29 12:36 13:11; luke 2:26 10:21 (r.v.) john 14:26 acts 1:16 5:3 7:51 10:44,47 13:2 15:28 19:6 20:23 28; 21:11 28:25 eph 4:30 heb 3:7 9:8 10:15

The personality of the holy spirit is emphasized at the expense of strict grammatical procedure in john 14:26 15:26 16:8 13, 14. where the emphatic pronoun ekeinos , " HE, " is used of HIM in the masculine, whereas the noun pneuma is neuter in Greek, while the corresponding word in Aramaic, the language in which our Lord probably spoken in, is feminine ( rucha, cf. heb. Ruach ). the rendering " itself " in rom 8:16. 26. due to the greek gender, is corrected to " Himself " in the R.V.

The subject of the holy spirit in the NT may be consider as to His Divine attributes ; His distinct Personality in th Godhead ; His operation in connection with the lord jesus in his Birth, His life. his baptism , his death ; his operations in the world ; in the church ; His having been sent at pentcost by the father and by Christ ; His operations in the individual believer ; in local churches ; His operations in the production of holy scripture; His work in the word etc...


This is taken from my greek strong lexicon

Welcome Jeff!

I think the person who wrote that site dosnt clearly show the gender, it feels a little muddled to me...

Hope to see you posting again!

- Rob

nail on head, bullseye and other sayings of accuracy.

The point is - WE are the picture of Him, He's not the picture of us. What I mean by that is male, female, child, family relationships describe in picture form something of the relationship and spiritual makeup of our Father.

Yahuweh isnt a guy, but He is our Father. The Spirit isnt a woman, but She is our mother. Yahushua WAS a man in the flesh, so He cant get out of it so easy ;) But Yahushua was, as Mike said, a diminished physical manifestation of Yah perfect for sacrifice, that also happened to show us how we should relate to our Father.

There isnt anything terrible or cryptic, its quite simple really. Yahuweh is our family, and He has those attibutes.

Wow. Now I know why I come back to these forums every now and then...it's incredible how you people seem to be so intelligent and yet you're so misguided to the point that I would call you a cult.

I see over and over in the various threads that the translations of the Bible are wrong, God-loving Christians are misguided and in possibly might not go to heaven, etc. This is EXACTLY how cults are run--the leaders say that everyone else is wrong and only that small group and it's leader(s) are correct and enlightened.

What I also see is that everyone quotes what CW and KP have written...or other "experts" (i.e. experts have found over 300,000 errors in the Bible)--and there's not much Bible quoting here. Case in point: in this very thread, a question is posed and one of the members refers the questioner to the works of CW and/or KP---they did NOT refer them to God's Word! So let me see...millions of Christians and highly trained pastors/theologians throughout history are wrong, but CW and KP are right? Super-experts in Hebrew and Greek form huge committees in order to go back to the earliest known transcripts and translate the Bible are wrong...yet CW and KP, who are not experts, give it a whirl and you believe them above everyone else? If I remember correctly, they do not even attend church anymore because the church is spewing lies. So they don't like the Bible and they don't like church...anyone sensing anything wrong here yet...? Give it a minute...okay, how about now?

If you read the Bible instead of other "works", you will see that it says that the Bible is the Holy Word of God, inspired by God, and is good for study and reproof. I believe that God has protected His Word throughout history so that we may know Him. If the Bible says it, I believe it. So I believe that the translations are correct! If God allowed His Word to be corrupted in even the smallest manner, then that "word" is good for nothing, cannot be trusted, and should not be followed--thus we have nothing available to us to point us to God and know Him fully. So don't try to tell me that the Bible translations are "wrong"--that is an opinion and NOT truth. God challenged man to put Him to the test vs man's gods. God said that only He can tell the future (prophecy)...and the Bible is about 1/3 prophecy and it's fulfillment. I see the prophecies of the end times being fulfilled every day in the news. The Bible has been 100% perfectly reliable and true...anyone who disagrees does not understand it correctly--and granted some things are very hard to understand.

As far as the original topic...the Bible refers to the Holy Spirit as a "He"...thus the Holy Spirit is a "He". Simple. Believe what the Bible says and not some man's opinion. Calling the Holy Spirit a "she" to me is blasphemous. The Bible warns you not to blaspheme the Holy Spirit as that sin is unforgivable. Calling the Holy Spirit a "she" is something that Satan would do in order to get you into a whole lotta trouble.

Am I reading this thread wrong or are you guys saying that the Holy Spirit is not part of the Trinity, but simply a "character" of God?? And that the Holy Spirit did not make Mary pregnant with Jesus--even though the Bible clearly states that He did??? At Jesus' baptism, Jesus was present...the Father spoke about being pleased with Jesus...and the Holy Spirit descended on Jesus...clearly an example of the three persons of God commonly known as the Trinity (although the word "Trinity" is not in the Bible, the concept is). The Trinity is a mystery that we cannot understand until we are in heaven, but the Bible clearly shows the three separate persons of God many times over.

Wake up, smell the coffee, and read THE BIBLE for your life questions.

William

William,
There is plenty of use of scriptual rescources on this forum. If you had scrolled up about 4 posts on this thread you would have seen that...either you didn't or you choose to ignore it. We are constantly prodding and poking the workds of KP and CW both publicly and in private correspondence. When there is a discrepancy....which I have brought up a few myself with the the writings in which give a backround and a reference point to this forum personally with CW....as many of us have. The "letters" thread is devoted to that almost exclusively. When someone makes a valid point CW is the last to be dogmatic and as long as you bring prrof or bring up lack there of he is happily ready to ammend and edit. Both of them state what is fact, what is an educated guess, and what is a shot in the dark. The greatest contribution that YY has made to most of us who have read it is that it gets us asking questions and digging deeper into the Word. The volumes written are by no means replacements for the scriptures. Being that this is the internet and you don't know us personally....and admit you only come here periodically (unless you are being untruthful) you have no idea how much time we spend with our noses in the scripture and relevent study recources. Just the other day we were looking for yachidy'el in the dead sea scrolls on one thread. But since you only come here once in a while...by your own admission you wouldn't know that. How many times have we exhorted each other to be Bereans on this forum and how many times do the authors do the same.
You come here and accuse of of being blasphemers...undisturbed by the facts (yes Ruach is feminine and is called she and her), tell us we are in a cult, are slavish thralls to the writers that have posted works on the YY site and say we don't read the the scriptures....why do you want to keep coming back? Do you come here for a good laugh or to make yourself feel superior? Yes, we have problems with Christianity....well founded problems with yet another religion of men. These are problems and inconsistancies that weren't brought up yesterday or exclusively by YY out of thin air. Some of the people you probably admire have brought up many of the concerns that we concern ourselves with. Augustine was mortified with Christian reverence of the sun in many respects. Bonhoeffer believed the law to still be in effect. Thoughout the history of Christianity...pockets of peoples have remained faithful to the Sabbath...even unto death. The puritans rejected Christmas as a pagan revelry that all to clearly exhibited it's true source and purpose. Have you ever heard of the word "Protestant"? Just what was it that they were protesting....oh that's right....Romish Christianity.
If you have such irreconcilable problems with us....so be it. We are not forcing you to suffer our beliefs and conclusions. It seems to me though that if you feel the need to keep coming back....the onus is on you.

Shalom,

SG, nice signature! I'm not into rap but your verses do sound catchy.

As for the Trinity concept: "Rub-a-dub-dub, Thee men in a tub!" Quite a nasty picture, isn't it? Somewhat perverted and twisted if you think, could easily pass off as the works of Satan.

I prefer to know that God created us in the image of God, both male and female, which is all about family. So if we rule out Yahshua (child) as female as well as Yahweh (our Father), that leaves the Spirit, hence our Mother.

There are other passages in the Torah highlighting the nature of the Spirit if we look a little deeper. Consider the spiritual use of the word "mother" in "Do not cook a young goat in its mother's milk (Exodus 23:19, Exodus 34:26, Deuteronomy 14:21)," and in Deuteronomy 22:6 where it desribes the mother bird and her young. Ken does great work clarifying these passages in TOM.

Gotta love how people are so demanding of us forum members.


Yet when we request they simply read a section of a book, apparently this is too much for them to handle!