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Offline visitor  
#1 Posted : Friday, June 20, 2008 2:18:34 AM(UTC)
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Joined: 6/13/2007(UTC)
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From what I've read and can piece together, in the first part of his life, Abraham most likely worshipped idols like everybody else around him, later he disobeyed God (taking Lot with him), lied about being married to Sarai to save his own skin, kept concubines, allowed Hagar and her/his son to face the perils of the desert alone (not showing a lot of fatherly responsibility for a child he sired), etc.

What makes him so special? Why is he a role model?
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#2 Posted : Friday, June 20, 2008 2:51:00 AM(UTC)
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visitor wrote:
From what I've read and can piece together, in the first part of his life, Abraham most likely worshipped idols like everybody else around him, later he disobeyed God (taking Lot with him), lied about being married to Sarai to save his own skin, kept concubines, allowed Hagar and her/his son to face the perils of the desert alone (not showing a lot of fatherly responsibility for a child he sired), etc.

What makes him so special? Why is he a role model?


I would say he was a role model because people made him to be one - I dont think he or Yah would give him role model status... Look at Moses, he was an brought up in Egypt, most definiatly involved in some kinda of faulse idolness... and he murdered a man. David as another example, he did some killing and sleeping around...

So why did Yah use these people? Because, after all the fleshy crap they had stuck to them, they knew Yah was their dad. Abe knew Yah was who he had to rely on, Moses knew the only way was to put his relaiance and trust in Yah, and David failed missrebly at a few points in his life but "repented" and knew who Yah was, and how much he loved Him.

Yahweh dosnt work with good people, He works with those who are in relationship with Him. They are those who truly seek, those who truely love Him. If Yah only picked the most homely and innocent, I know wouldnt be in the list.
Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Offline Matthew  
#3 Posted : Friday, June 20, 2008 5:25:41 AM(UTC)
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Visitor, Yada goes into great detail regarding Abraham in the Genesis Book, read the chapters Beriyth and Mowriyah.
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#4 Posted : Friday, June 20, 2008 6:22:37 AM(UTC)
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Thanks Matthew :D
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Offline James  
#5 Posted : Saturday, June 21, 2008 8:12:35 PM(UTC)
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Man has a tendancy to look for Role Models or Idols, Yah gaves us 1, bu tmost of the others he deals with are pretty normal people with the exception that they truely trust in Yah, which is the one thing we should use them as a model for.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline Yada  
#6 Posted : Sunday, June 22, 2008 6:23:21 AM(UTC)
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Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
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From: The Owner's Manual: Chapter 9, "A Holy People"

Quote:
Perhaps we can use our highway metaphor to illustrate how God’s Law and His Promise interact with each other. Picture a bridge across a deep gorge. The Designer has said, "The bridge I’ve provided is the only way to cross the gorge. It will hold you. I promise. Trust me." At the same time, He’s posted a sign: Bridge speed limit--40 MPH. Now we, mankind, are all standing around contemplating how to get across the gorge. And we find ourselves gathering in groups reflecting our varying "solutions." The first group (whose leader is Abraham) says, "I trust the Designer to get me across the gorge, but since my car doesn’t have a speedometer, I’ll just keep my eyes fixed on Him as I cross the bridge." The next group, led by Moses, says, "We too trust the Designer," and they cross the bridge with their eyes glued to the speedometer: 40 MPH--that’s the law. David’s group not only trusts the Designer, they’re enthusiastic fans. However, though they know there’s a speed limit on the bridge, they often forget to observe it--and subsequently they crash their cars repeatedly into the guard rails as they cross the chasm. All three of these groups believe the Designer’s promise and make it to the other side of the gorge because of that belief. The law has played its part in how smooth (or bumpy) the journey was, but it hasn’t affected the destination or their certainty of reaching it. These three groups represent the world’s believers.

There are, however, other groups of which we need to be aware. Herod’s group doesn’t want to cross the gorge at all. They’d rather try to build paradise on this side. The bridge seems to them to be beside the point. Jezebel’s people swear they know of a fast, smooth road that will easily get you across the river, just downstream a few miles. "You don’t always have to do what the Designer wants," they say. "Trust us instead. C’mon. It’ll be fun!" Those who follow Rabbi Akiba don’t trust the bridge to hold their weight. They say there’s a better path upstream, but to use it you’ve got to be disciplined and keep the letter of the Law--as we interpret it: "The 40 MPH speed limit must apply to all roads, everywhere, even though we reject the bridge that the law was written to instruct us about in the first place." They say, "Crossing the gorge with us will be an impressive achievement you can be justifiably proud of. But the bridge is just too easy--it’s only there to deceive the gullible." And finally, there’s Constantine’s group, who actually do venture out onto the Designer’s bridge, but not to cross it. Their idea is to encrust it with gold and jewels, restrict access to it, and erect a toll booth at the entrance. The bottom line: nobody in these last four groups crosses the bridge at all, and consequently, none of them make it across the gorge. It really doesn’t matter whether they keep the law or not, because they don’t believe the Designer’s promise: "My bridge will get you to the other side."

There are other groups as well, outside the experience of Judeo-Christianity, that neither trust the bridge nor respect the speed limits. One is represented by Muhammad. They provide an inclined ramp and a promise that if you drive fast enough, you’ll make it to the other side, where big-eyed virgins await you with come-hither looks and goblets of wine. Buddha’s group says the gorge is an illusion, and if you just walk up to the edge and step in, all your troubles will be over. Hitler’s group, meanwhile, insists that fate has decreed victory over the gorge and that the lebensraum that lies beyond it must fall to his irresistible military might. Need I go on?

In case you still don’t know what I’m talking about, here is the key to the metaphor. The "bridge" is Yahshua, the one and only way that the "Designer," Yahweh, has provided for us to reach Him. The near side of the gorge is our mortal life, the far side is heaven, and the gorge itself is death. The speed limit is the Torah, God’s instructions for a safe and productive journey. The "vehicles" in our story are our physical bodies. If we don’t heed the "speed limit," our bodies can be expected to suffer some damage along the way. But if we try to reach the other side by any means other than the Designer’s bridge, we will fail altogether.


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Offline Heretic Steve  
#7 Posted : Thursday, July 10, 2008 1:31:46 PM(UTC)
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One thing I've noticed about most scriptural characters-they are indeed 'characters'. Knowing that bad behavior is redeemable gives me much encouragement.
If not us, who? If not now, when?
Offline YAH is my FATHER  
#8 Posted : Thursday, August 14, 2008 8:25:15 PM(UTC)
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Shalom,

What a great question for discussion!

I am thoroughly delighted to agree with James, Steve and Robski, and I find it interesting to note that in a general sense, religion has worked overtime through the centuries to make me feel as guilt ridden as possible - which in turn gives their job relevance, as they surprisingly enough; are in the business of offering the solution for such things.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm

For mine, the thing I take out of scripture most of all is that I am not alone in coming from a fallen condition. For even though I have not committed the most horrible of possible human acts (that I am willing to admit to), I am admittedly way short of 'clean'. Therefore when I look at people such as Abraham and David and even Elijah and (later on) Peter and Thomas, I am brought in so many ways; face to face with myself.

As we all know - our greatest desires are precisely what the ‘guilts’ get at us about - power through sex and power through wealth being top of the list. Yet we see these same weaknesses reflected back at us in so many patriarchs, who were ultimately considered as 'honorable' and 'righteous' and 'after the heart of YAH', and 'beloved servants'.

Therefore we can take great courage indeed, that just as these men needed no religious servitude and penance to achieve righteousness, neither do I need to resort to such 'priestly' suggestions, of origins from within superstition.

Rather, like them, I can make my way to the ONE and ONLY ETERNAL CREATOR in trust, and stand obediently before HIM - as a beloved child. Then all is as it should be.

*BTW, my personal thanks for the sharing of the previous posters, as the concept took shape. For I had not previously seen this quite so brightly.

Love in YAH.

"So knowledge isn't the main measure, love of Yah and of each other is."



Offline bitnet  
#9 Posted : Friday, August 15, 2008 1:02:52 AM(UTC)
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Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,120

Shalom,

Like rough diamonds, we each are uncut and do not reflect the light in the best ways. Sometimes within each of us are the flaws that remind us of who we are, and yet the master diamond cutter trims us in ways to make us most valuable in His hands. The big difference between those of His family and those pretending to be of His family is that of attitude: we repent and leave it up to Him to cut us in the best way. We do not try to be diamond cutters ourselves and shape others to be like us or a picture of something we only have had glimpses of; we leave it to each person to offer himself up to the Creator for the best cut possible.

Edited by user Friday, August 15, 2008 3:24:26 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
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