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Offline shalom82  
#1 Posted : Friday, May 9, 2008 12:09:23 AM(UTC)
Joined: 9/10/2007(UTC)
Posts: 735
Location: Penna

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Shalom Aleichem,

I hope you are all well. It's been a long time since I last posted. I just want to say though, that though I have not posted I visit the forum at least once a day and am still very active in that regard. I enjoy your wonderful insights and earnest seeking.

Anyway, I just wanted to offer this little chestnut that might be of some help to those that still may doubt or have been bullied into accepting the Messianic status quo.

...there are some Hebrew students and scholars who have noticed that a natural progression of Hebrew language is to shorten the first vowel and lengthen the second whenever the accent is on the third syllable (in this case "shu") of a Hebrew word. This would indeed result in the "Y'hoshua" or "Yehoshua" pronunciation. For this reason, some believe "Yehoshua" to actually be the correct pronunciation.

But while this may be true in normal Hebrew words, there is plenty of evidence to support that this was not true in personal names--especially with names containing the first part of Yahweh's name. The Murashu texts, dated 5th century BCE and written on clay tablets in cuneiform script, list the names of about 70 Jewish settlers in Persia. In these tablets, vowels are used. The Hebrew names which begin with Yod Heh Waw all are written "Yahu-" and never "Y'ho".

"In the cuneiform texts Yeho [YHW], Yo [YW] and Yah [YH] are written Yahu, as for example in the names Jehu (Yahu-a), Jehoahaz (Yahu-khazi) and Hezekiah (Khazaqi-yahu)" A. H. Sayce in "Higher Criticism" notes on p. 87

Notice that not only were names beginning with "Yeho" written as "Yahu", but also names beginning with "Yo" such as "Yoseph" (Joseph) and "Yoel" (Joel) were written as "Yahu". This indicates Joseph and Joel were originally "Yahuseph" and "Yahuel

That in conjunction with the Talmud's declaration (however grudgingly) that the Messiah's name was originally "Yehoshua", should help give more than a few of us peace.

The full article can be seen at:

The reason I am posting this now is I just read an article that proclaimed that Yahushua was a sacred name movement "derivation" and that many of the sacred namers who use this version hint at or outrightly deny the deity of Yahushua, or that somehow by using the name Yahushua we are circumventing the Messiah and going straight to YHWH. Sacred namers have their faults and their eccentricities as most of us know, but I really can't figure out the downright animosity and venom that many in the Messianic movement have for the Sacred name movement. Many use the designation as a curse.

Here's a snippet:

The names “Yahshua” or “Yahushua” point to salvation coming directly from the Father, whereas “Ye shua” points to salvation coming through God the Son as it means “He is salvation.” It is important to note that many SNO adherents are very eager to talk about “Yahweh,” but are not necessarily as fervent to implore the work of the Messiah on the cross. The Tanach is clear that only God is our Savior, and the Apostolic Scriptures are clear that Yes hua is our only Savior. If Yeshua is not God in the flesh then He cannot be our Savior. If His name were “Yahshua” or “Yahushua” that would point to a Savior other than He, and would assert that He is not God made manifest in human form. ....Huuuhhhhh?
A large number of SNO groups do not believe in the Divinity of the Messiah. Given this, why would we need the Messiah for salvation when we are going right to YHWH? Forms such as “Yahshua” and “Yahushua” demean the Messiah’s place in the salvation experience. We point out that many SNO people that believe this have been influential over some in the Messianic community who now do not accept foundational Biblical teachings about the Divinity of the Messiah, or have perhaps already denied Him as the Messiah. This is a problem, and we do not encourage people to use “Yahshua” or “Yahushua.”

Does this make any sense to you whatsoever? I ask this because it surely makes no sense to me. I will be the first to admit that I have never been able to swallow Yahshua or for that matter use it. (I am speaking personally, and I am not judging). I think that Ye shua is a Hebrew contraction of the name or more probably and Aramaic derivative that was in common use at the time. I can accept it, though I fully believe and trust that Yahushua is His name. How on earth do I circumvent Messiah by proclaiming His name to be Yahushua??? If Yahushua is YHWH's earthly manifestation...albeit emptied of His true and full glory...and Father and Son are echad....and I thoroughly believe in oneness...how in anyway is the Name YHWH's salvation or YHWH is salvation a bypass of Messiah?

For those that want to see the whole article:

I do have a real problem with this article...but in no way is that a blanket condemnation of the site or the author. Infact, I love much of what the author has to say and think the Messianic movement desperately needs to hear and embrace many of the things the man has to say.


YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
Offline shalom82  
#2 Posted : Friday, May 16, 2008 6:28:58 PM(UTC)
Joined: 9/10/2007(UTC)
Posts: 735
Location: Penna

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
For some more evidence that the theophoric element "trigrammaton" AS AN INITIAL (prefix) was pronounced as Yahu and not Yeho...interested parties can check out the:

Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament By G. Johannes Botterweck, Helmer Ringgren, David E Green, Heinz-Josef Fabry
Look to pages 507-509 for the most relevant information
It can be found here:

You can also try to find:
Patterns in Jewish Personal Names in the Babylonian Diaspora
Author: Coogan, M.D.1

Source: Journal for the Study of Judaism, Volume 4, Number 2, 1973 , pp. 183-191

This source can be checked out as well. Mind you this is only a snippet:

A Note on Yahwistic Personal Names in the Murašû Texts

Check it out here

YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
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