I noticed the same thing you did, RWY, and it resonated with me. Here's a quote from TOMII (WMM) chapter 10:



kp

A year ago, in Post #57, Ken said...


I'm almost convinced it will be 2023.
Check out Revelation 2:10...
"10Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life."
So trumpets may be fulfilled at the start of the tribulation, 10 years prior to fulfillment of Atonement.
And 2023 is a natural sabbath -- Saturday, September 16th (starts Friday the 15th).

I was wondering... Is it inappropriate to celebrate Taruwah before I celebrate the first three Miqra or am I missing the point of simply understanding? I'm a baby in Yahowah's family and have only come to the true Way this summer. I still haven't finished ITG (almost tho and it's like the best food ever! I love dajstill's reference to mother's milk) and still have so many questions. Coming out of babylon is one thing - getting babylon out of me is a fascinating process. Not that I was ever very good at being completely religious lol!!! I always seemed to smell something "fishy" (haha - I was xtian) Has anyone purchased or made a shofar? How do we go about proclaiming and warning? Any input is most appreciated :-)

You've raised a valid question, Smoda. Another comes to my mind, as well. Assume an individual named Seeker. Seeker studies and researches, finally coming to a reasoned conclusion that Yahowah is indeed the Almighty and that the Torah, Prophets, and Psalms are His written communique to mankind, and he cheerfully and willingly embraces Yahowah and His Word. This happens in August, after the Spring and Summer Feasts, but before the Fall Feasts. Later that month Seeker dies for some reason or another. Did Seeker's soul cease to exist when his body died since he never took part in Pesach and Matzah and never presented himself on Kippurym?

I would say not at all. Like I said in my previous post, you don't have to perform the miqra to observe them, and the benefit comes from observing them, coming to know and understand them. If a man is seeking to know Yah, but dies before being able to celebrate the miqra his relationship with Yah is not changed in the slightest.

I hate to start with I think, because it does not mater what I think only what YHWH thinks maters, but I'm human so here goes .            
Once we agree to inter into a relationship with YHWH through his covenant and keep, do, serve, and observe. He keeps his part and kneels down to us as our King and father.    So our learning begins.

I think it is always important to be reminded that we are in a relationship, not a religion.

So ask yourself, if you were in the process of adopting a child and they died before the official "paperwork" was done, did they die your child? If you died before the official paperwork was done, were you their parent? Yes to both of those questions. If we can do the paperwork and make it "official", that works for everyone; it is the ideal outcome of the situation and what we all strive for. However, if someone can't make it to the table due to an unforeseen death and because of that death the paperwork wasn't complete it doesn't mean the relationship was any less established. That is not the same thing as deciding to "buck" the "official" process altogether. You were trying to get there, trying to do it right.

Great analogy dajstill.

It is about obeying YHWH,s covenant agreement and working to get it right!          (keep my commandments).                                 Question, What did the children of Israel do wrong? 

Hi James
I would say that (they had not kept or obeyed the Towrah) is the same as (rejected it, ignored and forgotten it, responded inappropriately to it.)

Daniel 7:27
27 ‘Then the sovereignty, the dominion and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints of the Highest One; His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey Him.’

Deut 11: 26, 27, and 28

26 “See, I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse:
27 the blessing, if you Obey the commandments of YHWH your God, which I am commanding you today;
28 and the curse, if you do not Obey the commandments of YHWH your God, but turn aside from the way which I am commanding you today, by following other gods which you have not known.


Deut 28:15
15 “But it shall come about, if you do not obey YHWH your God, to observe to do all His commandments and His statutes with which I charge you today, that all these curses will come upon you and overtake you:


Question how many people did YHWH kill for not obeying?

I think the answer is zero. How many people got themselves killed? Plenty. Yah is not in the killing business. But your protection runs out pretty fast when you don't follow advice. It was never simply disobedience that got people in trouble. It was when they chose to also become a stumbling block or a danger to others when death came in to play.
Another thing is people could have always chosen to leave Yah home and live somewhere else not under His covenant or protection. It's when you try to get the benefits of the covenant and yet despise Him and His Torah when problems arise.
If you don't want to partake just leave. If you want to partake and you mess up and come back and try again Yah is patient. He has zero patience for those who try to play Him for a fool by trying to live as a stowaway then go as far as mutiny.
I can't find one instance where Yah tracked someone down outside of His land simply to kill them for disobedience. It seems to be the exclusive domain of those who wanted the benefits without the relationship. I think that is why Yah often used the term harlot.

The folly of English translations:

Serve here is the Hebrew pelah, which means pay reverence to.

Obey here is the Hebrew shama, which means hear.

So there is not obey in this verse.

The same is true for the Deuteronomy verse you cite. It is hear and understand. Translators often translate it as obey, but that is not its primary meaning, and does not fit the context at all. It’s the same as translating shamar as keep when it most accurately means observe. They translate shama mitswah as obey commandments, but it much more accurately would be hear and understand the terms and conditions. We are blessed when we listen and understand, and we curse ourselves when we do not listen or understand.

There is actually no word, at least that I know of, in Hebrew which has as its primary connotation obey.

This makes so much sense to me because it takes the covenant relationship out of the do/don't category and again focuses on relationship. It is about us learning, knowing, and understanding Yahowah and His ways. When the covenant is renewed, it won't be about us "obeying" anyway, it will be our nature. Right now, we don't have His nature. The best we can do is seek to learn, observe, and understand. Yes, we should strive the live in the way our loving Father counseled us to live in, that is a given. But the concept that He is sitting there keeping score and trying to figure out when He can strike us dead is completely the domain of religion - keeping people in bondage based on fear.

Yahowah is offering us a gift and we can either accept the gift or not accept the gift. Of the things He ask, the only one that can be considered the least bit hard is circumcising our sons. However, my husband has no ill feelings about being circumcised and he is thankful his parents did it. Our sons have not at all asked why they were circumcised as babies, so even that can't be considered a "hard" thing for too long.

When it comes to the towrah, while I am still very much in the learning phase and muddling my way through translations, I have yet to encounter anything that is "hard". Yes, some of it is against my nature (for instance, I really feel if you are stupid enough to walk off the roof of my house you get what you get, so doing things to ensure the safety of my guest is a bit past my natural tendencies), but they aren't in and of themselves "hard" and I see how doing these things provide a much better community for living with everyone.

The truth of the matter is right now, today, there is no way of perfectly "performing" the Miqra. That let's me know more that it isn't about performing them, but understanding them. Figuring out what Yahowah was trying to get me to understand in 2012. As I and my family get ready for Trumpets, we aren't going to be at the table because we "have" to be, we aren't doing anything because we are "commanded" to be, we are doing it because we want to be there. We want to be there because this is a date Yahowah has kept with all of His children since at least the time of Moseh. Why would I not want to partake in this "Daddy/daughter date night" with my Father? Why would I need to be prodded? It isn't about doing it "right", it isn't about doing it exactly the way Moseh did it, it's about "me" desiring to not miss out on a special occasion with my Dad. A special event in which is is either 1)reminding me of what He has already done to ensure my access to His covenant relationship or 2) letting me know He will be faithful to complete His promise.

He isn't trying to punish, kill, or harm His children. He isn't concerned about those that aren't His children. This is a relationship in which both parties have chosen to pursue it with everything. My everything is so inferior to His everything it is laughable. But, He appreciates my "everything" just the same. Really, think about yourself as a father or mother. Have your children ever cooked you breakfast? Have they ever drawn you a picture? Have they ever brought you a gift? As terrible as all those things might be to a stranger viewing them, how inferior they may be in the scope of a culinary chef, a true artist rendering, or a gift from a lottery winner - you cherish them more than anything from any professional because 1) they came from your child! 2) you know it was the best they could do, in spite of the failure, and 3) they did it because they wanted to; they tried because they were trying to show you have much they loved you. Everything you give your children is a million times more valuable than ANYTHING they can give you: shelter, food, comfort, love, protection. You aren't expecting perfection, you know they are incapable of that. What you are expecting is growth, increased understanding with every year of age, and a consistent trying. Let us consider what Yahowah called Himself - our Father! What is the role of the Ruach Qodesh - our Spiritual Mother. That is why is say to us LISTEN TO, HEAR, ATTEND TO WHAT YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER! This is what makes things well for you, this is what allows you to lengthen your days - this is what gets you access to camp out with Yahowah for eternity. Not your own perfection, not doing it "just right", not obeying out of fear that some brutal tyrant of a God will punish you with a horrible death if you don't eat just the right lamb or have just the right bitter herbs or blow the shofar just perfectly.

The question is, why would you want to spend eternity with a tyrant? Why would you want to camp out with a brute? Where is the freewill and free nature if every time you "mess up" Yahowah kills you?

Just a comment--

You can't possibly "command love" -- that is an oxymoron (Deut 30:16)
Any "commandments" or "laws" negate freewill. It proves how murky the translations are.

We can, however, "choose" life or death. God asks us "to please choose life"

I understand that most dictionaries will use the word "command" as the English translation, but it sure makes the sentence an oxymoron - you simply cannot "command" love. Ancient Hebrew.org says:

"The word 'command,' as well as 'commandment,' is used to translate the Hebrew word 'mits'wah' but does not properly convey the meaning of mits'wah. The word command implies words of force or power as a General commands his troops. The word mits'wah is better understood as a directive. To see the picture painted by this word it is helpful to look at a related word, tsiyon meaning a desert or a landmark. The Ancient Hebrews were a nomadic people who traveled the deserts in search of green pastures for their flocks. A nomad uses the various rivers, mountains, rock outcroppings, etc as landmarks to give them their direction. The verb form of mits'wah is 'tsawah' meaning to direct one on a journey. The mits'wah of the Scriptures are not commands, or rules and regulations, they are directives or landmarks that we look for to guide us. The word tsiyon meaning landmark is also the word translated as Zion, the mountain of God but, not just a mountain, it is the landmark."

ITG: Mitwah: “the terms and conditions of the binding contract.” And second to that: “the authorized directions and written precepts.” This then explains what is in the Towrah, and affirms that it was written to “yarah — be a source of teaching and instruction, direction and guidance” for us so that we might understand the terms and conditions of the Covenant—Yahowah’s mutually binding relationship agreement."

Shalon, just wanted to check in and Miqra' TRUMPETS to all.

. . . jest me 'n Dog.

If one hears and understands what Yah said about circumcision, they would know and understand that they need to be circumcised in order to benefit from Passover. So if they do not understand that they need to be circumcised then they have not heard and/or understood Yahowah, and therefore participating in Passover would be meaningless as they could not possibly benefit from it.

In the extreme hypothetical if someone were to come to know Yahowah, and there was not enough time to get circumcised before Passover, there would be no reason for them no to celebrate it, as long as they knew that they need to be in order to benefit from it.

Celebrating Passover is not what creates a relationship with Yah, Jews the world over celebrate Passover, and don’t know Yah from a hole in the ground. Benefiting from Passover is what is important.



Obey is not implied as much as heed is implied. While both imply following and doing, heed is a much better fit because it comes from a point of understanding whereas obey requires no understanding. If I hear and understand Yah’s instructions I will heed them because I understand their value. Obey is in the realm of religion where understanding is not necessary only obedience.

The Deut. Verse reads And if you do not hear and understand the voice of Yahowah your God by observing and asah all of his mitswah and chuwqah which I instructed and directed you this day you will bring upon yourselves all of these curses and they will overtake you.

In context the verse is a warning about the consequences of ignoring Yahowah’s instructions. So let’s look at the words I didn’t translate.

Asah is most always translated as do, most accurately means to prepare and produce. It also carries the derivative meaning of to gain, benefit and profit from. The idea being that asah was for your benefit. What we do is for our benefit, unless you are a slave. The same is true for heeding Yahowah’s instructions, it is for our benefit.

Mitswah often translated as commands, are more accurately terms and conditions of a binding agreement. There are 5 of these as it relates to Yah’s covenant, and we heed these instructions for our benefit, and failure to heed them has consequences as the verse goes on to point out.
Chuwqah is clearly communicated and prescribed instructions. Again something to be understood and heeded for our benefit.



My thoughts exactly.



The word used is sawah, which can mean command, but more accurately means guidance, instruction, teaching and direction.

Also the Hebrew la while it can and often does mean to, in this context I would say on behalf of is a much better translation, making it read What I instruct you this day on behalf of loving Yahowah your God is to walk in His ways by observing His terms and conditions and His prescribed ordinances, and His means used to achieve justice…

Just my two senesce on the translation of la, instructing us to love God would not be inappropriate either, but to me instructions on how to love God seems more likely.

While the dictionary definition of obey could be argued as being implied, because of the connotations that the obey carries in the English it is among the worst words to possibly use, and considering there are much better words to use words which much more accurately convey the intended meaning of the original word in English, I would never use obey in my translation. As I pointed out heed is a 100 better word to use.

The idea of a translation it to as accurately as possible convey the meaning of the words in a new language, and in that regard obey does not do a good job.

Yes we should follow Yah's instructions, no one is arguing that we shouldn't. The point of the original discussion was about those who are unable to, i.e. unable to celebrate Passover during their lifetime because they came to know Yah after it and died before the next one, or someone who comes to know Yah and dies before being circumcised. It is not that they didn't wan't to follow Yah's instructions, it's that they were incapable of doing it.

Ya'aqob, corrupted to James, articulates very well how are actions are important, but only if they follow our understanding.

Happy Yom Taruwah to all! I saw the new moon sliver last night even though it was partly / mostly cloudy in the west. The clouds opened for a minute and bam there it was plain as can be. I felt like Yah showed it to me so that I knew that it was Taruwah. I blew my shofar that I recently purchased. I am not very good at blowing the shofar but I tried. I play drums not trumpet so I don't have the embouchure thing down.

On August 21, 2012, I went to a Judaica  store to buy a shofar.  I asked the guy (whose name was Shaul by the way, thought that was funny) if they had any books about ancient or paleo Hebrew.  He said no they didn’t have much use or demand for that.  Then he asked me why I wanted that, and I said that ancient/paleo Hebrew was the language of revelation to Moshe.  Then he said hmm that isn’t what our tradition teaches.  I am not very good at confrontation and I wanted my shofar so I didn’t explain more.  Then I was looking at some of the books and we talked again about the pictographs like ab is a rams head + house/home/tent meaning the strength of the home.  I didn’t tell him what Yahowah meant in paleo Hebrew because I still wanted the shofar.  Then I told him that some of the Qumran scrolls were written in paleo-Hebrew.  He said that he wasn’t aware of that but there wasn’t anything that we (maybe he) could learn from them (Qumran scrolls).   Hmm these guys don’t get it.  Then I bought my shofar and left.

Shalom

Does anyone have the 2013 dates already? Want to plan my days off for the coming year? Thank You

I have question about the timing of Sukkah.
I was all ready to celebrate Taruwah on Sept 7th, Reconciliations on the 16th, and Sukkah on the 21st, but what about this:

"Exo 23:16 Also the Feast of Harvest, the first fruits of your labor, of what you sow in the field. Also the Feast of Ingathering, after the going out of the year, at your gathering your work from the field."

It would take 3 to 4 weeks to gather in the harvest after the fruits are ready that clearly show a later, not an earlier feast. Also, the Scripture also shows the feast cannot start until after the 'going out of the year' or the autumn equinox. The Sukkot will start September 19 - 21st, a day or so before the equinox and 'the turning of the year,' and there will be no harvest for their feast as the harvest fruits are not ready yet..

Is this translated correctly? What exactly does 'going out of the year' mean? Autumnal Equinox, I assume? What if the grain/crops are not ready to harvest yet?

By implication, we would have to begin Abib at the first New Moon on or after the Spring Equinox. That way the barley would be abib, and there should be plenty of it; you wouldn't have to be searching so hard to find some. Then Sukah would also fall about a month later . . .

Just my thoughts today.

Blessed Shabat

Sarah,

I was thinking about your posts. Maybe the point of the word picture that Yahowah is presenting here is that the whole field isn’t ripe or that the whole field isn’t abib, only a few ears are ripe or a few ears are abib.

If we equate the Earth with the “whole field” then out of the “whole field” of 7 billion humans on the planet today, how many know Yahowah? Not very many; so the “whole field” isn’t ripe (with Yahowah’s children). In fact the “whole field” isn’t even abib (receptive to Yahowah’s Word and thus still growing).

Maybe the point of this is that we have to look hard to find the abib ears or the ripe ears. If you were placed into a big city you would have to look hard to find someone that was receptive to Yah’s word or who was actually Yah’s child.

BTW, I am celebrating Yom Kippurim today since I didn’t see the new moon sliver until September 7, 2013 at sun down. I use the observational method. So happy Yowm Kippurym everyone.

Shalom

Sarah,

I know what you are saying. It would be hard to celebrate if there was a lot of hard work waiting to be done. But don’t you think that the Sukkahs would be set up in the fields? That way you could celebrate and guard your valuable crop at the same time. I know Southerners here would set up tents in the watermelon fields to guard against thieves (both human and animal). I know that in my own garden the critters know when the fruit is ripe before I do because they have more time on their hands.

Anyway, did you hear back from Karaite Korner? Here are links to some news articles:


This article says that the grapes were harvested on Monday September 8, 2008 at one winery in Israel.

http://abcnews.go.com/Tr...ry?id=5768392&page=1

Harvesting World Class Grapes in Israel
JERUSALEM, Sept. 10, 2008
By RACHEL LEBOWITZ
Eli Gilbert Ben-Zaken, the founder of Domaine du Castel, one of the world's most prominent wineries, had a gut feeling that Monday was the perfect time to harvest his grapes...


http://www.jpost.com/Art...e/Wine-Talk-Harvest-time

Succot is the traditional time for celebrating the wine-grape harvest, which is also the best time to visit some of the picturesque wineries around the country…


This article says that olives are harvested during October:

http://www.haaretz.com/t...at-harvest-time-1.255951

Follow the olive oil trail at harvest time
The olive harvest began all over Israel this month - a good time to visit some of the country's best producers of olive oil and see how the presses work.
By Ronit Vered | Oct. 23, 2008 | 12:00 AM


Shalom

Purely wild-assed speculation here, but maybe if Yahowah detects that Seeker understands, accepts, and embraces his Word, perhaps he provides protection for Seeker's mortal life through the next cycle of miqra'ey, so that he has a fair chance to observe them all?



I guess I'll find out at this year's Feast of Weeks if observing Passover, Unyeasted Bread, and Firstfruits before becoming circumcised, and then becoming circumcised post-facto works or not (assuming the doctor can perform the procedure before June 3). Hopefully he can get me in in May so I can find out. I guess I'll know by whether or not I receive the Set-Apart Spirit on that June day or not. (Anyone who has received the Spirit, what does it feel like?) If not this year, there's always next year...