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Offline gammafighter  
#1 Posted : Thursday, January 24, 2008 8:19:04 PM(UTC)
gammafighter
Joined: 11/6/2007(UTC)
Posts: 114
Man
Location: Hilo, Hawaii

Hey everyone! I was thinking: if 2033 is a Yowbel year (right?), then 2032, 2025, 2018, and 2011 are the next sabbatical years. So... post your thoughts on Sabbatical years. Are you going to observe it? Why/Why not? How should it be observed? Have you thought about it? Also, if you have some information that helps explain why 2033 is a Sabbatical year and the Hebrew year 6000, that would be appreciated too.
Offline bitnet  
#2 Posted : Friday, January 25, 2008 12:06:26 AM(UTC)
bitnet
Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,120

Phew Gamma! We're still trying to observe the weekly Sabbaths and you throw this at us now! Could you, er, like ask us in 2010? November or December will be fine...
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
Offline kp  
#3 Posted : Friday, January 25, 2008 4:12:10 AM(UTC)
kp
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

I got the distinct feeling when working on TOM (Chapter 11) that the rabbis were wrong in starting the sabbatical-year cycle over when they hit a Jubilee year. My impression (though scripture doesn't spell it out) is that the two things were to run independently---and that the rabbis only linked them so they could fudge on their tithes. Sabbatical years (and Yowbels, for that matter) are tied to life in eretz Israel---they would be impossible to keep for logistics reasons outside the land and outside the theocratic society of early Israel. It's what they mean that we need to pay attention to; there's no point in keeping the parts of the Law that are convenient while making up your own substitute rules and traditions for the stuff that can't be literally kept any more.

Also, to correct a slight misconception: the Gregorian year 2033 is equivalent to the absolute year 6000 (that is, the year on Yahweh's calendar as He's revealed it in scripture), but the Hebrew calendar is off by a couple hundred years---their year corresponding to 2033 will be 5793--it's as meaningless as our Gregorian date.

The only reason I was able to pin down 2033 as a Jubilee year was a historical reference that pegged the year of Bar Kochba's rebellion as the last Jubilee to be celebrated in Israel---133 A.D. This would make the year of the passion (33) a Yowbel as well.

kp
Offline bitnet  
#4 Posted : Friday, January 25, 2008 5:10:31 AM(UTC)
bitnet
Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,120

Thanks KP! Regarding the statement...


kp wrote:
they would be impossible to keep for logistics reasons outside the land and outside the theocratic society of early Israel. It's what they mean that we need to pay attention to; there's no point in keeping the parts of the Law that are convenient while making up your own substitute rules and traditions for the stuff that can't be literally kept any more.

kp



... someone asked me 17 years ago how does a believer keep the Sabbath above the Arctic circle line where the days and nights last for months. I told him to follow the clock and he said that Scripture does not say that. As such, he claims that keeping the Sabbath is not possible nor necessary today. So I told him to follow it where possible, and in places where it is not possible, use wisdom. Is this a fair statement? I think he was wrestling with Scripture to support his "once saved, always saved" doctrine.
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
Offline kp  
#5 Posted : Friday, January 25, 2008 9:20:37 AM(UTC)
kp
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

I see what you mean, bitnet. My off the cuff statement could easily be misconstrued. I was thinking in terms of stuff like, "The rites of Yom Kippurim state that we're to sacrifice one goat, sprinkling his blood on the ark of the covenant, and the other goat is to be set free in the wilderness. But since we can't do any of that, we'll just fast, say some pre-written prayers, and wear uncomfortable shoes for the day. God'll never know the difference."

The Sabbath is so simple, it can be kept in spirit (though because we're human, we invariably goof it up in practice). Set aside the seventh day of the week as being a special day of communication and fellowship between the believer and Yahweh. Enjoy each other's company. Relax. Maybe introduce Him to your friends; after all, it's a party. Don't try to impress Him with your achievement or your wealth---it can't be done anyway. Doing this is not a big chore: the day was made for us to enjoy.

If you live at the north pole, do you sleep for five months, get up and keep regular hours for a few months, and then stay awake until the end of summer? Only if you want to have a psychotic breakdown. The Sabbath is built around a human's internal clock--the sleep-wake cycle that's programmed into us. This usually matches up reasonably well with the Timex version. I think your take on "using wisdom" is right on the money, bitnet. If folks want to find excuses for not doing what Yahweh said to do, they'll find 'em. It's not Yahweh's problem---it's theirs.

kp
Offline gammafighter  
#6 Posted : Friday, January 25, 2008 12:23:09 PM(UTC)
gammafighter
Joined: 11/6/2007(UTC)
Posts: 114
Man
Location: Hilo, Hawaii

Thanks for your input, both of you. Kp, my understanding of the Sabbatical year was that it meant to teach us to rely on Yahweh for our salvation, just like the Sabbath does. Also, it would almost force us to live simply so we would have enough to make it through a year. Even if we save up money for the sabbatical year, we still are relying on Yahweh by spending a whole year not working. Most of the time, the reason it would be so impossible to take a year off is because our culture (at least in America) encourages us to spend all we can afford. No, it encourages us to spend MORE than we can afford. And to put the rest on credit cards and accumulate debt. We feel the need to buy as big a house as we can, the nicest cars, etc. I pray that I'm not being too judgmental, but when I went to church in the suburbs of chicago (very rich cities/towns) I would see people with such nice cars and think "With the money you could have saved with a simpler, cheaper car, you could have saved villages full of people from starvation in Africa" I think Yahweh wants us to be counterculture by fighting against consumerism.
Those are my thoughts on the Sabbatical year. I'm not 100% convinced to adhere to it, but I can see how it would make sense for us to do that. If the counting of Sabbatical years doesn't include the Yowbel, any ideas on when the Sabbaticals are?
Offline bitnet  
#7 Posted : Friday, January 25, 2008 4:18:29 PM(UTC)
bitnet
Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,120

Gamma Bro,

According to statistical information, 94 per cent of Americans have to depend on a third-party after retirement, whether it is family, charity or the government. Just about as many people have enough funds to live for no more than three months before needing to adjust their lifestyle downwards. To think of a full year sabbatical without generating income today is practically impossible as people do not or cannot save enough, even after a lifetime of work.

As for spending on big cars and houses, pride seems to be the issue. For all practical purposes, a big house for two people serves little purpose after the birds have flown the coop. But it is home and sometimes the birds do come home to roost, perhaps in their annual migration or simply for a visit, so if the house is already paid for, then there is nothing wrong in keeping the house. Some people who are more industrious simply sell or rent the house and move to a smaller, more manageable dwelling.

As for cars, practicality is important, but pride demands flashy cars. I'll say that a Bugatti Veyron is very handsome as is a Lamborghini Reventon, but even on the lower end people tend to buy more than necessary for a statement. Can the money be used for other things? Of course, but to feed the poor in Africa? You may be too young to remember the butter mountain and the grain mountain but man have in the past chosen to destroy excess food rather than re-distribute to those in need. Why? Because of politics and the control of the Illuminati which seeks to oppress wherever possible. Your savings don't mean squat if you think you are going to give it to a "charitable organisation" for the good of mankind. The tsunami in Sumatra exposed a lot of the shenanigans of the people in power.

Along this line of thinking, do you not think the "green revolution" is a form of control of third world governments? Who contributes most to environmental degradation but who is asked to pay? I'd look into everything possible that affects an ordinary person, but that is because of my background as a former journalist.
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
Offline gammafighter  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, February 19, 2008 7:08:38 PM(UTC)
gammafighter
Joined: 11/6/2007(UTC)
Posts: 114
Man
Location: Hilo, Hawaii

bitnet- i can't believe i didn't see your reply till now!
what i'm saying here is that no matter how much money people have, they never have enough. At least in America, people seem to think that they really have to live outside of their means and hope that they get the money to afford it from somewhere. Of course the extremely poor can do little if anything about their money problems, but even in the affluent upper-middle class city i lived in recently, there were plenty of people who couldn't quite afford the life they were living. If they lived in a home that was nice, but not more than they needed (some homes have pools, but a whole neighborhood in my old city has hangars and runways.), and drove reliable, nice cars that weren't BMW's and such, they could save tons of money. For a LOT of people, there are places where they can fairly easily cut back on their spending.
I think about it this way. I'm going into a career with a good starting salary, so i might be making $25-$30,000 a year, maybe even more, right out of college. I know that there are a lot of careers where people make $20,000 a year or less, and they don't starve to death. Logically, shouldn't it be possible for me to live spending $20,000 a year or less? Then I would have $5,000 dollars or more to save or give away in one year. Yet for so many people, making $25,000 doesn't mean they should budget for $25,000, but that after they spend $25,000 they have to start using credit cards (more often than they already do).

i can't really speak for anywhere else, but i know that observing the sabbatical year is possible for many Americans, albeit with quite a few lifestyle changes. Sure, there are people who have dug themselves too deep in debt to afford it, but i don't think the point was to wait until you can afford it. there are so many variables that apply to the situation that i can't just say "if you make $40,000 a year or more, you should be able to observe the sabbatical year" but i will say that i think it is important to trust Yahweh.
Offline bitnet  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, February 20, 2008 1:18:04 AM(UTC)
bitnet
Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,120

Gamma Bro,

When you first enter the reality of working life, you shall know and understand the problems of exchanging time for money. But usually not before one has already committed to the error of the way. Good that you are aware of this and it would behoove you to plan properly right from the start. Usually debt starts accruing when one buys a car or a house. Prepare yourself to buy with cash or rent. If what KP and Yada says is true, then not much point in buying real estate, is there? Unless you can flip it and make some money... I would greatly recommend you to read a couple of books written by your fellow statesman Robert Kiyosaki -- Rich Dad, Poor Dad and The Cashflow Quadrant. Read, understand, and learn how not to get too deeply involved with financial Babylon.

Shalom!
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
Offline Mike  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, February 20, 2008 6:28:26 AM(UTC)
Mike
Joined: 10/2/2007(UTC)
Posts: 541
Location: Texas

Thanks: 6 times
Was thanked: 24 time(s) in 16 post(s)
So does anyone really know when the next Sabbatical year is and does it apply outside of Israel. What I really want to know is should I plant my vegetable garden this year and harvest my fruit trees or not.

According to many Jewish web sites, this year is a Sabbatical year. The following is from a Jewish web-site:
http://www.chabad.org/li...2016/jewish/Shemitah.htm
This coming year on the Jewish calendar, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007-Sept. 29 2008), will be the next Sabbatical year (Shemitah).
The year following the destruction of the second Holy Temple (3829 from creation, equivalent to 68-69 CE) was the first year of the seven-year Sabbatical cycle. We continue counting seven from then.
Most of the Sabbatical year's observances are agricultural in nature, and are only relevant in Israel.

The year should start in April instead of September according to Leviticus 23. This is all confusing.

I thought this was interesting: Have you read the story about the “banana miracle” in Israel?

A completely secular farmer whose produce is bananas decided that he would undertake to keep Shmitah this time around. He approached the Keren HaShviis for assistance and they stipulated that he would be registered in their program if he would also undertake to be personally Shomer Shabbos throughout Shmitah. He agreed. Keren HaShviis (Here, I was told by Rabbi Bloom, that it was actually the Otzar Bet Din of Bnei Brak) undertook to cover his farming expenses in return for which all the produce would become the property of Otzar Beis Din and would be distributed in full accordance with Halacha.
Israel has suffered a significant cold spell over the past 2 to 3 weeks. Bananas don’t like cold. Cold doesn’t like bananas. Needless to say, they don’t get along. When bananas are still growing and get hit with frost, they turn brown and become rock-solid hard.
The hero of our story, Gibor Koach the banana farmer, knew he was in deep trouble when the relentless cold hadn’t let up for over a week. He lived a distance from his orchard and hadn’t yet seen the damage with his own eyes. He began to receive calls from his neighbor farmers, who have orchards bordering his, complaining bitterly that their entire banana crop had been destroyed by the frost. He decided it was time to inspect the damage up close, no matter how painful it may be.
He drove up close to Tverya (Tiberius) to inspect his orchard, as well as those of his neighboring farmers. As he passed from one orchard to another, he was overwhelmed by the damage. Not a single fruit had survived, no tree was spared. His neighbors took quite a beating. All the bananas were brown, hard as a rock.
He could only imagine how bad his trees must have gotten it.
Yet when he finally got to his orchard, he was awestruck! ALL of his bananas were yellow and green. It’s as if his orchard was not part of this parcel of land. His orchard bordered those of his neighbors, but not a single tree of his was struck by the frost. It’s as if a protective wall kept the damage away. At first he thought he was imagining it, and as he rushed from one section of his orchard to another, the realization that more than the farmer keeps the Shmitah, the Shmitah keeps the farmer hit home.
He immediately called his contacts at Keren HaShviis and yelled into the phone, “Karah Nes, Karah Nes!” ( A miracle happened, a miracle happened!)
A miraculous modern-day manifestation of “V’Tzivisi Es HaBracha”.
There is no way to explain this other than that HaKodesh Baruch Hu keeps His promises. He says keep Shmitah, and I’ll take care of you. He sure does!

Read the entire story at Tamar Yonah’s Blog from Israel National Radio. http://www.israelnationa...ws.com/Blogs/Blog.aspx/3

What Scripture actually says:

Leviticus 25
And Yahuweh spoke to Mosheh on Mount Sinai, saying, 2“Speak to the children of Yisra’el, and say to them, ‘When you come into the land which I give you, then the land shall observe a Sabbath to Yahuweh. 3‘Six years you sow your field, and six years you prune your vineyard, and gather in its fruit, 4but in the seventh year the land is to have a Sabbath of rest, a Sabbath to Yahuweh. Do not sow your field and do not prune your vineyard. 5‘Do not reap what grows of its own of your harvest, and do not gather the grapes of your unpruned vine, for it is a year of rest for the land. 6‘And the Sabbath of the land shall be to you for food, for you and your servant, and for your female servant and your hired servant, and for the stranger who sojourns with you, 7and for your livestock and the beasts that are in your land. All its crops are for food. 8‘And you shall count seven Sabbaths of years for yourself, seven times seven years. And the time of the seven Sabbaths of years shall be to you forty-nine years. 9‘You shall then sound a ram’s horn to pass through on the tenth day of the seventh month, on the Day of Atonement cause a ram’s horn to pass through all your land. 10‘And you shall set the fiftieth year apart, and proclaim release throughout all the land to all its inhabitants, it is a Jubilee for you. And each of you shall return to his possession, and each of you return to his clan. 11‘The fiftieth year is a Jubilee to you. Do not sow, nor reap what grows of its own, nor gather from its unpruned vine. 12‘It is a Jubilee, it is set-apart to you. Eat from the field its crops.

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