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Offline Yada  
#1 Posted : Friday, January 11, 2008 10:28:21 PM(UTC)
Yada
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 3,537

As I have been working my way through The OC, I keep coming across numerous references to both "wives" and "concubines." I did some checking on-line and I have reprinted what I found below. I wondered if anyone else had some insight(s) into this?

The complete article can be found here.

Here is one portion from the article:

Quote:
Nor was it considered adulterous in patriarchal culture to have a concubine. To our ears the word concubine suggests the using of women for male sexual pleasure. And undoubtedly there were as many men who misused women in the ancient world as there are examples of sexual abuse in our own day. But we should remind ourselves that in the Old Testament the word concubine simply meant a wife whose children would have no legal right to the family inheritance. [See Genesis 22:24, 36:12, Judges 8:30-31, 19:1-22, 2 Samuel 3:7, Chronicles 2:46,48]
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Offline kp  
#2 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2008 6:41:44 AM(UTC)
kp
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

Because of what the union of a man to a woman in marriage symbolized---the intimate and fruitful relationship of Yahweh with Israel or of Yahshua with His bride the Ekklesia---the concept of keeping concubines becomes symbolically equated with idolatry. That's why Yahweh dealt with the problem in the Torah. In The Owner's Manual, it comes up in several guises. For instance:

Quote:
(73) Do not withhold food, clothing or conjugal rights from your wife. “If he takes another wife, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, and her marriage rights. And if he does not do these three for her, then she shall go out free, without paying money.” (Exodus 21:10-11) What the rabbis said to do here was such a no-brainer, God never even mentioned it. What He did say was intended to protect subsequent wives from abuse. It is abundantly clear that Yahweh’s intended pattern for marriage was two people, a man and a woman, joined as one for a lifetime. However, strange as we may find it, He never overtly prohibited polygamy—although He made sure that every time we see it in practice in the scriptures, there’s trouble attached. Caveat emptor. This admonition in Exodus says, in our vernacular, You think you’re such a stud that you can handle two wives? Very well, I see it as a sign of arrogant stupidity, but knock yourself out. Just be aware that you’re going to have to be twice the man you were before—twice the man I made you, by the way. You can’t short-change your new wife in any way, not in financial matters, not in attention, not in support, and not in the bedroom. And if you find out the hard way that you can’t keep up your end of the bargain, don’t come crying to me when she cleans out your bank account. Okay, that’s a paraphrase, but you get the idea.

In a symbolic sense, Yahweh Himself is polygamous. He has separated Himself from His “first” wife, Israel, because of her unfaithfulness (see the book of Hosea). And now He has betrothed Himself to a new bride, the Ekklesia of Christ, who looks forward to consummating the union at the “marriage supper of the Lamb,” spoken of in Revelation 19. According to His own Law, Yahweh is prepared to treat the Church with the same level of devotion He affords to Israel. Will He restore Israel to her former place of blessing? Yes, but only after she repents of her wickedness. (Actually, it’s more complicated than that: see #78.) And how does Yahweh view this potentially awkward three-way relationship between Himself, the Church, and Israel? Brace yourself for some really heavy symbolism, and read the Song of Solomon. The key is: Solomon represents the Messiah, the Shulamite is the Church, and the daughters of Jerusalem are, well, the daughters of Jerusalem—Israel.


kp
Offline Noach  
#3 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2008 3:27:35 PM(UTC)
Noach
Joined: 7/5/2007(UTC)
Posts: 127

KP,

Really? He has separated from His only bride who He made an everlasting covenant with and married a new wife named the "ekklesia of Christ"? I respect your writing, but I completely disagree here. Isn't this the same kind of thinking that allows people down the slippery slope of replacement theology? Did Yahuwah take a new bride or renew the betrothal agreement with His unfaithful and adulterous wife Yisra'el, by atoning for her sin and accepting her back. The same betrothal agreement she cast aside in favor of idolatry. He has renewed this agreement and restored His bride. All we have to do is accept this restoration.

When Yahushua says "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Yisra'el" (Mt. 15:24), did He really mean His new gentile bride?

At Mark 6:38-43, Luke 9:13-17, and John 6:9-13, Yahushua fed those gathered with five loaves of bread (the Torah) and two fishes (two houses of Ysira'el) and when they picked up the pieces there were twelve baskets (fullness of Yisra'el) filled with the pieces of bread and fish from those fed. Does this sound like Yahuwah is looking for a new bride or restoring the fullness of His bride Yisra'el?

Yahushua's conversation with the woman at the well in John 4:7-27 gives us another clue into His relationship with His bride. The woman speaking represented His wayward and lost bride once betrothed to Him through the Torah (her five previous husbands). Even though she is living in sin (the one whom she now has), she is not married to it. She is waiting for her husband to restore her.

Like the other examples, Yahushua uses this interaction as a chance to show us His relationship with His bride Yisra'el. These examples pervade the Renewed Covenant writings, and none of them speak about Him taking a new bride called the "Ekklesia of Christ". Yahushua did not establish a new covenant with and new bride. If He did, I am having a very hard time finding where.

Noach
Offline kp  
#4 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2008 6:55:01 PM(UTC)
kp
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

Hi, Noach. Anybody who's read my stuff knows I'm the antithesis of a replacement theologian. Israel will most definitely be restored---that is, a believing remnant. As a clarification, I would state that the primarily gentile ekklesia, while not replacing Israel in Yahweh's affections, will most definitely be counted among His "bride" or "wife." Revelation 19:7-8 describes a scene that takes place in heaven, before the return of Yahshua to the earth, hence before the Millennial Kingdom age on the earth in which Israel will have been restored: "Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready. And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints." At this point, there is no indication that the remnant of Israel has figured out that their Messiah is Yahshua---something they'll do on a national scale on the definitive Day of Atonement, a mere five days before the Messiah's Kingdom begins on the Feast of Tabernacles.

But can God, according to His own standard, "remarry" Israel? Yes and no. It's covered in another mitzvah in The Owner's Manual:

Quote:
(78) One who divorced his wife shall not remarry her if after the divorce she had been married to another man. “…Then her former husband who divorced her must not take her back to be his wife after she has been defiled.” (Deuteronomy 24:4) Here we see a restriction placed on the husband of the broken marriage: he is not to remarry the wife he previously divorced if she had been married to someone else in the meantime. This is where it gets a little confusing. The book of Hosea, especially the second chapter, seems at first to imply that Yahweh has different standards for Himself. In verse 2 He says, “She [Israel] is not my wife, nor am I her husband.” Israel, after unsuccessfully seeking other “lovers,” says in verse 7, “I will go and return to my first husband.” But then down in verse 16, we read, “It shall be in that day, says Yahweh, that you will call me ‘my Husband.’” And in verse 19, “I will betroth you to Me forever.” What gives? Is Yahweh breaking His own rules? He would be, except for one stunning detail: “From now on, we regard no one [e.g., Jews] according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.” (II Corinthians 5:16-19) The Israel to whom Yahweh will betroth Himself in the Last Days is not His old unfaithful wife, for she is prohibited by law from re-marrying her old Husband. Rather, she is now a new creation that, with the Church, has been made pure and undefiled by the blood of the Lamb of God. But until she is transformed in Spirit by receiving Yahshua, her renewed relationship with God is legally impossible. The implications should be stunning for any practicing Jew today: it is impossible to form a relationship with Yahweh through Judaism.


To complete the thought, it is only possible for a Jew (or a gentile, for that matter) to form a relationship with Yahweh through Yahshua. The religion of Judaism is no more efficacious in forming this relationship that the religion of Christianity is. We must become "a new creation" through being "in Christ."

kp
Offline bitnet  
#5 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2008 7:33:39 PM(UTC)
bitnet
Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,120

I understand Noach's concern but I think that KP is right in that Israel shall be transformed and be part of the bride of Yahushua in he end-time. The sticky part is in getting the remnant of Israel to understand that they have to give up their way of approaching Yahweh NOW because it no longer applies (having been divorced because of unfaithfulness). Another sticky part is in getting the Christians to realise that they have not replaced the Jews, that there is no replacement theology taught at all, but that ALL have to transform to become part of the bride of Yahushua, the really new Israel included.

So the issue of having concubines and/or more than one wife is really frowned upon by Yahweh but practiced by those who want to keep up with followers of the Solomons, Smiths, Teddy Bears and others. To deny it happened would be stupid, but to approve it would be foolish. From the woman's side, the thinking would go like, "Yahushua will have only one bride... so it is gonna be me or her or her or her?" Nah, it just would not work out well. For those already in it, I have no answer for you. Just pray that your mothers-in-law don't come visiting all at the same time!
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
Offline jojocc  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, January 15, 2008 12:46:40 AM(UTC)
jojocc
Joined: 12/1/2007(UTC)
Posts: 97

I'm not convinced that YHWH at any time divorced the children of Israel. He has certainly hidden his face from them until he deems the time right to show it again. As far as taking on a second wife, don't hold with that at all. The whole point of the sacrifice of Yahashua (the salvation of Yah) was that we may all and all NEED to be graphted on to the true vine. We all need to BECOME Yehudim. We all need to become the bride/Ekklesia/Yehudim...
Offline kp  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, January 15, 2008 4:35:09 AM(UTC)
kp
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

I think maybe the reason we're having such a tough time pinning this down is that the "marriage of Yahweh" is a metaphor. If you try to make a metaphor walk on all fours, it's going to develop a limp sooner or later. Symbols like this don't often work on every conceivable level. We need to try to take them in the spirit they were offered to us. In this case, it's absolutely clear that Yahweh loves both Israel and the ekklesia, He has separate but equally glorious destinies and timelines planned for them in the short run, but in the long run there are only two types of people: those who are related to Yahweh, and those who are not.

kp
Offline jojocc  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, January 15, 2008 4:39:58 AM(UTC)
jojocc
Joined: 12/1/2007(UTC)
Posts: 97

Does not the Ekklesia become Israel, if we are all graphted onto the same root then this is the case, no?
Offline bitnet  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, January 15, 2008 5:18:17 AM(UTC)
bitnet
Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,120

Hello jojocc,

I guess the quick answer to this is that physical Israel shall have to become spiritual Israel to be the bride of Yahushua.
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
Offline Noach  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, January 15, 2008 12:09:21 PM(UTC)
Noach
Joined: 7/5/2007(UTC)
Posts: 127

All,

Do you think Yahuwah distinguishes between "saved gentiles" (a term that does not appear anywhere in Scripture) and "Israel" when He sees His bride? I think Scripture pretty clearly states He doesn't? Considering He only has one covenant with one bride, Israel, why are we still referrring to a certain group of people as "saved gentiles"? Wasn't it Israel and only Israel who was betrothed to Him at Mt. Sinai? When did He make a new covenant with a new bride called the "gentile church"? You are absolutely correct Jojocc, if we are reconciled to Him through Yahushua's sacrifice, we are no longer gentiles, but fellow citizens in the common wealth of Israel. This requires entering into a covenant relationship with Him, and once we have done this, we are His bride.

Lets not worry about "physical Israel". Blood relation is really quite meaningless. Israel is all those who accept His salvation and enter into the covenant. Blood has nothing to do with it. A Jew is not an Israelite just because he can trace his bloodline back to one of Ya'aqob's 12 children. Being a gentile has nothing to do with it either.

Noach
Offline bitnet  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, January 15, 2008 8:17:01 PM(UTC)
bitnet
Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,120

Hello Noach,

What you said is true... there is only one bride... and physical Israel will have to transform to be that bride. In spiritual Yisra'el there is no Jew or Gentile, so that means that gentile believers like me will also have to transform. But does this have anything to do with concubines? I wonder if the thread is moving off tangent...?
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
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