So, a woman posted on a listserv that I belong to about needing help. The basics was that her daughter was the victim of a teenage pedophile and she didn't know if she should go to "church" authorities since they belong to the same church. I responded that her daughter was the victim of a crime and it should be reported to the police. Most pedophiles have up to 100 victims over a lifetime - this teenager is probably just getting started. The reason she posted is the confusion being caused around bringing other "christians" to court.

Wouldn't you know a "pastor" stepped in to tell her NOT to follow my advice but "jesus said when you have an ought against your brother go to him". This pervert actually told this woman to just discuss it with the parents and give it to "the lord". Even insinuated the whole "if you don't forgive you won't be forgiven" attitude.

What the hell is wrong with these people!!!! This woman's young daughter was raped by a pedophile and she is being told that "jesus" won't quite lover her as much if she actually reported the crime to the police!

I would send her the article about the guy in Shiner Texas who beat the guy he caught molesting his daughter to death, and say that is my advice.

I am so with you James! Just sick to my stomach at these people trusting a "pastor" and keeping their children in danger.

encounterhim,

How did YHWH say we deal with a rapist? The thing about rapist and pedophiles (who are just rapist of children) is that not one study has shown signs of rehabilitation being possible. The average pedophile has almost 100 victims. Many pedophiles were once victims themselves. So, the longer we let pedophiles live and dwell amongst us after so called rehabilitation - the more pedophiles we get.

Ask yourself if you think a person that kills "for fun" can be rehabilitated. I was raped as a child and I can tell you - it is definitely a type of murder. It kills so much inside you. While many people survive rape and molestation and turn out "fine" many people don't. Some people are lost and the longer we allow them to have access to other people the more they take, and take, and take.

Unless you have seen a child who has been the victim of molestation it is hard to understand - but that child dies inside. What is left is simply a shadow of what that once happy, loving, trusting person was.

Again, the rate of reabuse among pedophiles is almost 90% - even when caught they do it again. Raping children is all they think about, all they dream about, all they plan for. Sandusky is not rare, he is just high profiled. Pedophiles are good, cunning, and at their very core evil. However, we brush it off because this country cares little about protecting children. A rapist of an adult will go to jail for life while it wasn't until recently that a rapist of children had a long conviction. They are geared towards "rehabilitation" programs until they accidentally kill a child they are violently raping. The reason sex offender registries are so important is because child molesters and child rapist serve such short prison terms - many serving less than 10 years for their crime.

Here are some studies that will change your mind about thinking child molesters can be helped: https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/163390.pdf

Here is another one that shows that even if you "think" a child molester is cured, they re-offend "eventually", given enough time, they strike again.

To rape, molest, or otherwise sexually assault a child you are already lost. Again, the best standard in dealing with child molesters are the ones that YHWH came up with. Until then, the best you can do is be a very observant parent and do what needs to be done if caught in the act. In the US, 1 in 3 women and 1 in 4 men have been the victim of some type of sexual abuse by the time they reach 18. The reason we aren't tough on molesters can be linked directly to the catholic church, directly. The protestant church is guilty of the same thing. I saw a rape covered up in a mega church. 10 years later, the pastor made national news for setting a lawsuit for molesting 4 boys. Guess what - he was NEVER tried in a court of law for his crimes. Like Sandusky - he created a "foundation" to help troubled youth that was really used to get access to vulnerable young boys for vulnerable homes for his sexual pleasure. And yet he is still walking around preaching and was recently even crowned "king" in his congregation.

While I understand the love for ones child and that surely, any one would do what it takes to protect them, what I made a sad attempt at in words is, down here men are giving kodos to the father for what the father himself never intended to happen. He was remorseful that the guy died at the end of his hands. While I have no sympathy for the perp, what I was trying to get at is the status they give someone that did a job they would all resoundly be glad to do if given a chance, and that still will not sit right with me. I don't know if it was big news everywhere, but here, it was all ppl talked of for 2 weeks. It mattered not where I was, in the field, in the shop, the stores, ppl were high fiving over it and I was sick about it. I heard things like, "f yea yea!..Dad deserves xtra this fathers day," or, "this dad deserves a medal." It was commonallity among all the people to want this guy dead.
Now the guy you were writing about, daj, is a teenager. Don't know if that meant 13yrs old or 19, but remember, there's no hope (for most) according to you and so many others, for these guys. So when we start killing b/c someone, let a thought, a moment, this palce in time, get out of hand b/c whats put out in the public these days in all sorts of ways,is acceptable in the view of the general public b/c the norm what's presented as okay) has relaxed in most areas of ppl ways of thinking. Sure, perps of this nature shouldn't visit light again, but remember, if we start making snap judgements when it comes to killing, where does it start and stop. In my eyes ppl are running scared these days. Even I could have notches on my handle if I didn't think properly, exercise my nesahma properly. And I too could have been elevated among my neighbors for taking a different stance than the one I did in circumstances around where I am. But that's not my job! My job is to call the police and let them handle it. So in the end, if the man had lived and the police had arrived and took the guy into custody, the father would have been happy for it.
I agree with everything you wrote, daj. AAnd am sorry for your own dealing you endured in life at the hands of a perp, but all I tried down here, and believe me, it wasn't fun getting into it when I didn't give an applause to the father. For one, I didn't know the father. He could himself be into all sorts of sorted misdealings, who knows? Where I took my stance was, yea, he's dead, okay, but leave it there and don't feel as if we should be giving this dad all sort of accolades when he(the dad) is torn over the death, and in the end, that's what I found good in the whole thing. The dad was sorry the guy died, when everyone else was hoisting, instead. And I know tomorrow, sure as the sun shines these christians will be telling me again, "but all Gods children are born perfect." They can't have it both ways!

I understand your point encounterhim,

No one is saying condemn someone to death without a trial. However, catching someone in the act and doing what is necessary to protect the victim isn't something anyone should have a problem with.

The teenager was 14, but what does age have to do with it? He is raping and molesting children and getting away with it because he is doing it in church setting under the protection of "the church will handle it". He is not operating as a confused child - it is already functioning as a calculated pedophile. While the child was left on the trail, he went back and chatted up the parents, pretending as if nothing had happened. He didn't run, he didn't hide, he callously and without feeling struck up a conversation with the mom who thought her daughter was off still collecting leaves for crafts. Sorry, I don't hold out much hope for him to ever become a functioning member of society. I expect him to continue to target younger, vulnerable children and damage them.

We don't have the death penalty in the country for child molestation. We choose to simply continue to turn them back out on society and hope parents know how to use the registry, hope they give their correct address when they move, and hope they are not slick enough to get a job in the local school system. It's unfortunate and wrong to do that to people. Again, the average pedophile will collect 100 victims over their lifetime. Research has proven that irregardless of any intervention program offered, a pedophile will hurt again given time an opportunity.

Rape was a crime that absolutely disgusted YHWH (which is why He was also hard on false allegations of rape). The more I come to know YHWH, the more I understand that His reasoning and His Towrah are just, right, and necessary for a functioning society. The more we move away from His Towrah - the more confusing, upsetting, and loopy things get.

Even as a Christian I despised the concept of "forgiveness" equaled letting a criminal go free while the victim was commanded to forgive less "jesus" not forgive them. Not only was the person victimized, they were then forced to have their own salvation dependent upon them thinking kind thoughts about their abuser. This is completely out of step with YHWH who hated evil with a perfect hate. He did not excuse those that hurt the innocent and never commanded people to embrace and forgive, for instance, someone who killed for instance - even by accident. While the person who accidentally killed the child had their life sparred - they were supposed to flee to a city of refuge because they had proven their lack of caring and empathy for the lives of the innocent. You didn't get to kill people, even by accident, and have your life proceed and as if nothing happened while the victims family was required to simply suck it up or that would not be fit for a life with YHWH.

When it came to forgiveness - even when the "NT" says Yahowsha spoke of it, it was regarding a debt of money. The person doing the forgiving owed a larger debt that the one they failed to forgive. He never insinuated that you needed to forgive someone who raped your wife or killed your daughter or cut off the arm of your son because he thought it was "fun" or your sins would continue to be counted against you. He never insinuated that those that kill, torture, or otherwise terrorize the innocent be simply forgiven and allowed to move about the community while everyone had to simply excuse their evil behavior or that would be destined for separation.

As for age, I can't find that YHWH put an age limit on when someone would be held responsible for rape, intentional murder, or intentional maiming. Now, a well involved parent will ensure their children don't have a lot of opportunity to go out a rape other kids. When we do find child murderers we tend to see a very long list of infractions before they get to rape and murder. I remember the story of an 11 year old boy that killed his five year old cousin. People cried about putting him in jail for life because he was "just a kid". What they failed to address was this "child" had been arrested almost 20 times for other crimes by the age of 10. This wasn't just a child who made a mistake and accidentally killed his cousin - he had been arrested for armed robbery and assault and batter already in his life.

Just in my neck of the woods was the story recently of a 14 year old boy who hung his 9 year old cousin from a tree. Sorry, I don't have much hope for him becoming a functioning member of society and wouldn't want him at the park playing near my kids. We had a professor here shoot 6 colleagues, killing 3 of them. Come to find out she had killed her own brother as a teenager and never faced prosecution because "she was just a kid and it was probably an accident". I do not at all believe in identifying psychopaths because of thought crimes or because someone "wishes" another dead or even threatens people. But when folks move from thoughts and threats to action - YHWH was right in telling us how to deal with them. He knows human nature much more than we do.

Again, I am not asking for vigilante justice. We don't give the death penalty to child molesters and rapist - so they shouldn't be killed for the crimes they commit. At the same time, I will shed no tear for a rapist killed by a victim or bystander during an attack. Sometimes one life must be taken to spare another and I would much rather the life of the innocent person be spared - the way YHWH intended when He said we should come to the defense of the defenseless.

I hate death and I like it when anyone dies. But I would gladly see a rapist bite the dirt in order to save a victim from the attack. I believe in prosecuting rapist and molesters to the fullest extent of the law. In the US, that doesn't mean death; but they should not be back out on the streets collecting more victims as they often times do. There is absolutely no proof that a molester and child rapist can be cured. YHWH gave no indication that child rapist were redeemable. For instance, He indicated that a robber could be redeemed because their penalty was just to return what was stolen 7 fold - indicating you could make their crime hurt so much they learned not to do it again. To my knowledge, He held out no such hope for a rapist. If I am wrong, please let me know. I want my thoughts and opinions on matters to match YHWH's as closely as possible.

I don't have these opinions because of my past. I was one of the lucky ones in that I was able to work through my issues. My experience wasn't as violent as others and I wasn't as young. I had made some bad decisions and put myself in a bad situation that got out of control - but I wasn't a young child. The victims of child molestation have a much, much harder recovering. I have seen the effects of child rape, child molestation and it is only getting worse because there are so many perpetrators out there amongst us. I, again, put much of that on religion and the concept of "forgive or you won't be forgiven" and not looking at things as YHWH looked at them, but painting the words of Yahowsha was a much too large of a brush. I am NOT saying YHWH wants us out there being vigilantes. But, we should hate the things that He hates and despise the things that he despises. Pedophiles would have much fewer victims if the church wasn't out there telling folks everyone makes mistakes and that one shouldn't call the police when a "brother offends". Many pedophiles take refuge in religious institutions because of the protections afforded them. Ask most adults who molested them as a child and you will find a large percentage were attacked by fellow church members, church leaders cover children's programs, or people that were trusted by the family because they were "christians". Again, we don't kill pedophiles in this country and I am not saying we should start doing it. I am saying they should be put away from society for as long of stretches as possible and when they get out, they should not be have an opportunity to be near potential victims. Child rape and molestation is not just a crime, it is a sick, twisted, and evil mindset. Think about if you have a neighbor who liked to sleep with animals - would you want him living next door to you and your pet? Would you think there was something that could change them and keep them from having sex with animals when they had been doing it and liking it for 10, 15, or even 40 years? This is the same thing with pedophiles - they LIKE it. They don't think it is wrong. The screams, cries, tears, and anguish of children excites them. They get joy out of the suffering of children, they feel like they need it to survive. These are not normal people in any sense of the word. And yes, if a person is 14 and they get aroused by raping children - nope, don't want them living next door to me.

That sounds to me like you're just parroting the words of others, presenting as fact statements for which you have offered no proof whatsoever. That is dangerous and unwise. Who are you to suggest that Yahowah's power to change one's heart is limited to all but a select group of sinners?



Why? Our opinions about such things are worthless.



I was raped as an adult.



Spoken like a perpetual victim, sis. Let it go. It happened, and that was a terrible evil that was done to you, but holding onto the experience isn't going to help you or anyone else. If the rapist did not receive just punishment in this life, that is none of your business. We WANT it be our business, because by God we want to do grievous and long-lasting bodily harm to the one(s) who raped us, but that just isn't our call. Yahowah is the strength of my emotional health. Who or what is yours?



That is true. But it lasts only if the child is enabled to feel that way rather being encouraged to put it behind them. I do not expect man's mental health professionals to be of much help there at all. It takes Yahowah's Word.



I would be interested in viewing the notes from the sessions for all the pedophiles you have interviewed who told you that all they think about is raping children, and that that is all they dream about and plan for. Since I know you cannot provide any such documentation, I would again caution you against making such sweeping statements as though they were indeed facts. Perhaps you heard one or more mental health professionals or a jaded police officer or two claim such things. They don't know either. All they have are opinions, for none of them has visited the heart of each and every criminal in the world. So making claims about "all they think about, dream about, and plan for" is just irresponsible and leaves no room whatsoever for the power of Yahowah's Towrah. None. And who are we to so elevate ourselves as to say who will and will not respond appropriately to His Word?



I don't give a damn what man's studies have shown. Man is not Yahowah. Man's statistics are worthless in these matters.



And everyone else, then, is saved, right? Because they didn't molest a child, or rape this or that person. That sexual perversion of theirs is the one thing that Yahowah just throws His hands up and says, "Darn! Even I can't forgive that one!" Really, sister? Really? You really ought to remove yourself from the planned hysteria that has been thrust down our throats by the media about this issue. Seriously.



Which are what, exactly?



The whole tone of your post, sister, seems to be to inflame our emotions with "Oh my God!" sensationalism. Yes, there are truly evil people walking the earth. Some of them are sexual predators. Most are not. But they are just as evil, just as lost, just as hateful towards Yahowah and His Word. As those who have been blessed with the truth, I believe we ought to be more rational and calm about things. Extremism in describing people we've never even met is really dangerous, I think. Encouraging violence towards anyone is not our right, nor is it becoming to the Family of Yah. It's ugly. It's typical of this world, and we are not of this world.