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Offline Mailman Dan  
#1 Posted : Thursday, June 9, 2011 1:17:15 PM(UTC)
Mailman Dan
Joined: 6/2/2011(UTC)
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Location: texas



This will help me get a better understanding where some come from. I know there are Christians here, because of private text and warning about some views here, but a few are very different, and I don't understand their basic understanding of being made Right with God.

What I do not understand is how one gets the "redemption" through God. (Yahweh) (according to the views that the NT is not vaild, and there is no blood payment.


I will (TRY) not to debate here, I'm just trying to understand where some are coming from.

It has been well said that "religion" is man’s way of trying to deal with his guilt. Different religions have different ways of attempting to rid their adherents of sin and its consequences. They fast, pray, deny themselves legitimate pleasures, or chasten themselves, often to a point of inflicting pain. They do this because they have a concept of what they think God (or "the gods") is like, so they seek to establish their own righteousness, being "ignorant of God’s righteousness."

So what is the way that some here seek Redemption?


Dan
Offline Mailman Dan  
#2 Posted : Thursday, June 9, 2011 1:19:42 PM(UTC)
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Posts: 28
Location: texas

BTW.. I would prefer that you gave a background of WHY you think as you do. (Torah quotes, scriptures, personal exp. fortune cookies, ect..)


I've pointed to NT and OT scriptures for mine, but are there outside influnces?
Offline James  
#3 Posted : Friday, June 10, 2011 5:27:20 AM(UTC)
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Short answer. Know Yahowah, for who He is.

As for why, I gave you a 500 plus page book which explains what you want to know, and provides Scriptural evidence.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline Yah Tselem  
#4 Posted : Friday, June 10, 2011 10:07:35 AM(UTC)
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Dan, there are some things which I would agree with you on, but if you don't read YY, you'll never get an understanding of where we are coming from. Just click on Yada Yahweh at the top left and start reading is my suggestion.

The NT is not invalid! It's just not scripture! So anything in it that speaks against Yah, such as Galations, is not to be trusted.. it's a simple choice really - trust man or trust Yah, I choose Yah. The Messiyah Yahowsha' (errantly known as Christ Jesus) did redeem us, I don't disagree with that - in that he fulfilled Passover. Yahowah (known as Lord but he hates that name) diminished himself into human form as Yahowsha', just as was predicted in TPP. He became the passover lamb on the upright pole, fulfilling passover, unleavened bread and firstfruits. To learn about this, go to the miqra section of Yada Yah to read the scriptures in an amplified translation so that you can see what those Hebrew words really say instead of relying on English translations.

The problem is when Christianity says all you have to do is believe Christ died on the cross and your saved.. that's not true. In order to spend eternity with Yah, one would need to take the time to know him, which = read torah and observe it (observe does not mean do). Then one would learn from Torah that certain things are anti-yah, such as religion, such as Christmas, Easter, using Lord and jesus, etc etc. Yah asks us to walk away from such things in order to walk towards him.

Also, in Lev., he explains the importance of 7 feasts and how we should observe them and upon doing so we come to know him better and his plan. This is not what religion teaches.. rather Christianity says celebrate Cmas, Easter, lent, etc etc all unscriptural, although on the surface they are made to seem scriptural to the nn discerning eye.

So, one can be redeemed by Yahowsha' fulfilling Passover Unleavened bread and Firstfruits... but not if they don't first know Yah (which means know Him by what he wrote in the Torah, not know him by what Paul or any other man wrote about him). None of this is going to make that much sense until you decide to read Yada Yahweh. I think some here may think that since you have religious ideas and ingrained religious thinking, that you are probably beyond the point of being able to find Yah... but I don't think that.. I think that anyone who seeks Him shall find him. But truly seeking him means being willing to forget what you've been taught and start afresh.. not based on what I or Yada or James or anyone says... but rather on what Yahowah says, which can only be found in the TPP and can only be seen clearly when looking at the original meanings of the Hebrew words.. The word made flesh.. that word was Torah.. not the NT.
Offline cgb2  
#5 Posted : Friday, June 10, 2011 7:54:48 PM(UTC)
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Mat 5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Torah or the Prophets.1 I did not come to destroy but to complete
Mat 5:18 “For truly, I say to you, till the heaven and the earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall by no means pass from the Torah till all be done.
Mat 5:19 “Whoever, then, breaks one of the least of these commands, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the reign of the heavens; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the reign of the heavens.

Mat 19:17 And He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except One – Elohim. But if you wish to enter into life, guard the commands.”1 Footnote:1See Lk. 10:28, John 12:50, Rev. 22:14.

Mat 23:2 saying, “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on the seat of Mosheh.
Mat 23:3 “Therefore, whatever they <Mosheh> say to you to guard, guard and do. But do not do according to their works, for they say, and do not do.
Mat 23:4 “For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders <oral law>, but with their finger they do not wish to move them.

Joh 5:45 “Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Mosheh, in whom you have set your expectation.
Joh 5:46 “For if you believed Mosheh, you would have believed Me, since he wrote about Me.
Joh 5:47 “But if you do not believe his writings,1 how shall you believe My words?”

Act 15:19 “Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the gentiles who are turning to Elohim,
Act 15:20 but that we write to them to abstain from the defilements of idols, and from whoring, and from what is strangled, and from blood.
Act 15:21 “For from ancient generations Mosheh has, in every city, those proclaiming him – being read in the congregations every Sabbath.”

Luk 23:54 And it was Preparation day, and the Sabbath was approaching.
Luk 23:55 And the women who had come with Him from Galil followed after, and saw the tomb and how His body was laid.
Luk 23:56 And having returned, they prepared spices and perfumes. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the command.

1Jn 2:3 And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands.
1Jn 2:4 The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Elohim has been perfected1 in him. By this we know that we are in Him.


1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of Elohim, when we love Elohim and guard His commands.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love for Elohim, that we guard His commands and His commands are not heavy

Deu 6:6 “And these Words which I am commanding you today shall be in your heart,
Deu 6:7 and you shall impress them upon your children, and shall speak of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise up,
Deu 6:8 and shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.

Rev 14:12 Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones,1 here are those guarding the commands of Elohim and the belief of יהושע.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Elohim and possessing the witness of יהושע Messiah.

Rev 22:13 “I am the ‘Aleph’ and the ‘Taw’, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.
Rev 22:14 “Blessed are those doing His commands, so that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of life, and to enter through the gates into the city.
Offline Yah Tselem  
#6 Posted : Saturday, June 11, 2011 4:17:45 PM(UTC)
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one of cgb2's quotes caught my eye. I inquired of Yada about it, so I wanted to share that coversation.

First, I wrote:
Quote:

Hey Yada. Shabbat Shalom.

Someone in the forum just posted something that caught my eye..
It was the following:
Joh 5:45 “Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses
you: Mosheh, in whom you have set your expectation.
Joh 5:46 “For if you believed Mosheh, you would have believed Me, since he wrote about
Me.
Joh 5:47 “But if you do not believe his writings, how shall you believe My words?”

Interesting because it makes a good point because it points people to the Torah.. but,
Mosheh isn't the one accusing, and it wasn't his writings, rather in both cases it is
Yahowah. So I looked this up in TWTY to see a more accurate translation and I got the
following:

"None of you are to think or presume, suppose or regard, deem or judge, decide,
believe or consider that concerning this, I shall accuse, reproach and bring charges
against all of you before the Father*: Moshe is and exists as the one accusing,
reproaching and brining charges against all of you, inside and within Whom all of you
have hoped and placed confident and trusting expectation. For this reason, if and whether
any of you were placing trust and reliance, obedience and confidence, certainty and
guarantee, assurance and dependence in Moshe, all of you would be placing trust and
reliance, obedience and confidence, certainty and guarantee, assurance and dependence in
Me, for the reason that that certain specific person wrote and inscribed, recorded and
composed about and concerning, regarding and on account of, because of and with respect
to Me. But nevertheless, since and because none of you place trust or reliance, obedience
or confidence, certainty or guarantee, assurance or dependence in that certain specific
person’s written letters and accounts, reports, decrees and documents, how, in what
manner, way or fashion shall any of you place trust and reliance, obedience and
confidence, certainty and guarantee, assurance and dependence in My Own words and
sayings, statements and messages, proclamations and subject matters.”

It still says Moshe was accusing.. assurance and dependence in Moshe.. I guess I don't
understand why Yahowsha' would say that when it should be "Yahowah was
accusing" or "assurance in Yahowah". Perhaps what was really written has
been lost, or perhaps we are supposed to just know that Yahowsha' meant Yah when he said
Moshe or that he meant Yah through Moshe.. Anyways, it caught my eye.

-Terry


Yada's reply

Quote:
Terry,

The points being made are: Yahowah will refer to the Torah when He passes
judgment, and if you trust Yah's Towrah, you will trust Yahowsha', as He is
presented in the Yah's Towrah. Yahowsha' is simply saying: if you want
answers to your questions on judgment, if you want to know who I am and why
I am here, read the Towrah.

The problems are that Yahowsha' didn't say these things in Greek or English,
and Yahowchanan's testimony has been heavily edited by scribes. So any
attempt to analyze the Greek text with such scrutiny is ill fated.

You are correct, in that Moseh isn't the one who will be doing the accusing,
but the Towrah he scribed will. So, I think your concerns which are valid,
are manifest in the translations as a result of an incomplete and inaccurate
translation from Hebrew/Aramaic to Greek, to an incomplete and inaccurate
transmission of the Greek text by scribes, and to a less than perfect
translation from Greek to English.

The bottom line is: the NT is a very unreliable document. If you want
answers, you have to rely upon the Towrah. (Which is what Yahowsha' was
telling us.)

Please feel free to share this conversation in the Forum if you think it has
any merit.

-Yada


Just another reminder to myself not to get too caught up in NT translations and to keep focusing on Towrah.... focus on Towrah is the point that Yahowsha' was making (clearly), but I don't think he said it quite like that & we can't tell because there's not a reliable enough document to reference.





Offline cgb2  
#7 Posted : Sunday, June 12, 2011 5:51:10 AM(UTC)
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I found this to be interesting in the du Tillet Hebrew version of Matthew.

Mattithyahu 12:5 “Surely you read in the Torah that preists profaned the Shabat in the Main Hall and there is no accused?
12:6 “But I say to you that here is a Great, more than the main hall is He!
12:7* “But if you knew what it is, ‘Favor, Mercy I desire and not sacrifice,’ you would not convict the guiltless.
12:8 “For YaHoWaH He is the son of Adam and also the Shabat.”
Offline Matthew  
#8 Posted : Sunday, June 12, 2011 5:00:06 PM(UTC)
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Yah Tselem wrote:
Yada wrote:
The problems are that Yahowsha' didn't say these things in Greek or English,
and Yahowchanan's testimony has been heavily edited by scribes. So any
attempt to analyze the Greek text with such scrutiny is ill fated.

You are correct, in that Moseh isn't the one who will be doing the accusing,
but the Towrah he scribed will. So, I think your concerns which are valid,
are manifest in the translations as a result of an incomplete and inaccurate
translation from Hebrew/Aramaic to Greek, to an incomplete and inaccurate
transmission of the Greek text by scribes, and to a less than perfect
translation from Greek to English.


When reading Yada's reply here we must bear in mind that Papyrus 66, which contains John 5, can be dated to as early as 100 CE, almost 20 years after being written, though conservatively placed around 200 CE. Comfort and Barrett date it to the middle second century, no more than 70 years out. P52, which contains John 18:31-33 and v37-38, is conservatively dated to 125 CE. Needless to say P52 and P66 have the same things written word for word, minus one minor word difference, that of an additional "therefore" in P66. With this knowledge we must note that the oldest surviving manuscript of the Dead Sea Scrolls dates to around 300 BCE, and we know the Torah must have been written around 1500 BCE, a space of 1200 years separating the two. Now, I don't want to undermine the Tanakh here, but we must realise that the time-span between John penning his book and the later manuscripts is minute compared to the date the Torah was penned and the older manuscripts containing it.

Nevertheless, the use of "Moses" in John 5 makes complete sense considering the Jews claimed Moses was the law that governed their actions and based their beliefs upon. Yahshua was simply using it against them. In the prior passages it speak of judgement, those under the law (to use a phrase), those not believing in Yahshua, will be judged by the law, they will be found not having kept the law even though they claim to be be keeping it. So how does one "keep the law" and have eternal life? I think verse 24 solves the riddle.
Offline Walt  
#9 Posted : Sunday, June 12, 2011 5:25:06 PM(UTC)
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Posts: 374
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Matthew wrote:

With this knowledge we must note that the oldest surviving manuscript of the Dead Sea Scrolls dates to around 300 BCE, and we know the Torah must have been written around 1500 BCE, a space of 1200 years separating the two. Now, I don't want to undermine the Tanakh here, but we must realise that the time-span between John penning his book and the later manuscripts is minute compared to the date the Torah was penned and the older manuscripts containing it.


Still going to rely on the DSS (which is Scripture) over John (which isn't Scripture)
With your reasoning presented, even the post-Constantine manuscripts are more reliable than all of the "OT", but that's christianity's position anyways.
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