This needs to not get buried under newer posts. All who sincerely love the Truth and undertake to teach what they believe is Truth, encourage a Berean-like response to and assessment of their words because they do not seek their own glory, but the glory of Yahushua, the Truth.



This is the PDF file: http://thewaytoyahuweh.com/pdf/pages/qpr_a_look_at_the_galatians_text.pdf

This is not to pit brother against brother, but a joyful progression toward understanding and exalting the Truth, as expressed in Philippians 1:18.

"Stephen Walch just completed his review of the Galatians text as found in Yada's Questioning Paul. Here's the LINK to his website, you can download the PDF file from there."

So what! Is Stephen so proud. Just that picture he has of himself looking off in a distance strikes me as arrogant. Like, look at me, I'm busy thinking. You can think yourself into oblivion as far as I care, doesn't make you right. What he needs to be doing in fixing these so called christians that have built their entire religion off Pauls ramblings. Bc it's like making a cake without reading the instructions, in my opinion. I'll try reading what he's written, but let him know, come and defend it after words. Don't tuck your tale and go open a site that just knocks someone elses findings. There's plenty more than just Galatians. Today I'm reading this and none of it comes off as simple as Yahushuas parables do.

2 Corinthians 11

11:1 Would that ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.

11:2 For I am jealous over you with a jealousy of YHWH: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to the Messiah.

11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in the Messiah.

11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Yahushua, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another evangel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

11:5 For I suppose I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles.

11:6 But though I be rude in speech, yet not in knowledge; but we have been throughly made manifest among you in all things.

11:7 Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the glad tidings of YHWH freely?

11:8 I robbed other assemblies, taking wages of them, to do you service.

11:9 And when I was present with you, and wanted, I was chargeable to no man: for that which was lacking to me the brethren which came from Macedonia supplied: and in all things I have kept myself from being burdensome unto you, and so will I keep myself.

11:10 As the truth of the Messiah is in me, no man shall stop me of this boasting in the regions of Achaia.

11:11 Wherefore? because I love you not? YHWH knoweth.

11:12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.

11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of the Messiah.

11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

11:16 I say again, Let no man think me a fool; if otherwise, yet as a fool receive me, that I may boast myself a little.

11:17 That which I speak, I speak it not according to YHWH, but as it were foolishly, in this confidence of boasting.

11:18 Seeing that many glory after the flesh, I will glory also.

11:19 For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise.

11:20 For ye suffer, if a man bring you into bondage, if a man devour you, if a man take of you, if a man exalt himself, if a man smite you on the face.

11:21 I speak as concerning reproach, as though we had been weak. Howbeit whereinsoever any is bold, (I speak foolishly,) I am bold also.

11:22 Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I.

11:23 Are they ministers of the Messiah? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.

11:24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.

11:25 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;

11:26 In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;

11:27 In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.

11:28 Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the assemblies.

11:29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not?

11:30 If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities.

11:31 The Elohim and Father of our Master Yahushua the Messiah, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.

11:32 In Damascus the governor under Aretas the king kept the city of the Damascenes with a garrison, desirous to apprehend me:

11:33 And through a window in a basket was I let down by the wall, and ESCAPED his hands.


P.S. I'm not sorry for this rant. Pride goeth before destruction, And a haughty spirit before a fall.

Indeed.

Right, Maybe I was being a little harsh. So sorry about that, but come on, I'm tierd of this guy Paul singing his own praises all the time. ...
[2nd Cor 11:23 Are they ministers of the Messiah? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.]
[11:24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.]

If the "Word" was with YHWH in the beginning, I see that as being built upon billions upon billions upon billions upon billions of years of trust. And only brought to us by His Son. But wait, all those billions of yrs of trust are negated with a 3 yr, so-called lesson of the desert. I can't buy that!

1st off, was Paul made an apostle by Yahushua? He thought he was!.....[2nd Timothy1:11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles]...hey, so am I...believe me...not! Here we have Paul claiming to be an apostle to us, but in, [Acts15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Kepha rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago YHWH made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.]..maybe some didn't catch that part, "YHWH made the choice" Or do like christians do, or better yet,
my neighbor, "GAAAWWD GAVE SCRIPTURE TO PAUL." He reminds me of TD Jakes...so funny with their big hats and jewelry.

2nd, His so called vision. His report..[Act9:3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
9:5 And he said, Who art thou, master? And He said, I am Yahushua whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.]...

but just what did Yahushua say. In [Matt 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is the Messiah, or there; believe it not.
24:24 For there shall arise false messiahs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.]...Okay, so do we take Him at his Word...but wait, Paul's self appointed. Where, in the desert, that's where. And then He has trouble keeping his vision story in line.

3rd, How many Apostles were there?...hmmm. And are these guys named?...[Matthew 10:1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Kepha, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
10:3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
10:4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.]...so surely someone replaced Judas..was it Paul?...Not according to scripture...[Acts1:23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
1:24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, YHWH, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
1:25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
1:26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.]...so Paul would make it 13 of 'em now?...hmmm 13 apostles, 13 books, bringing us now to a total of 66 books...what!!!.Not that I give reason to numbers, but I was of the mind, mans afraid of these in many circles.
Skip over to, [Rev21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.]...back to twelve again.

I have some more, but times short and arguing over Paul just isn't worth it for me right now. But I can say, in this "Torah Class," the guy is constantly referring back to Paul and most of the time, I don't see why he does. Maybe I'm out of tune.

About the picture he has up, Sorry, should have shut my mouth, but I was raised to give...lol.

I agree James. As for me, I would like to learn more about what all the first century writings say so that I could make rational decisions about it myself, but not until I come to learn the torah prophets & psalms a whole lot better. I think that it would be best to have a good understanding of scripture BEFORE I study the 1st century writings, not the other way around, otherwise there is not a solid foundation. I am not even planning on reading QP until I have reread all of YY & TOM and until I have a full amplified translation of scripture. And even that is on hold right now, as all we are studying right now are the Spring Miqraey, which are almost upon us.

Now, tell us Brother Richard, was Paul's KJV a Scofield Reference edition or a Thompson Chain Reference edition?

This does slap all of us in the face, doesn't it, Danshelper. What are we to do?

Well Danshelper,
I will say this. If you remember when this debate started....nay...before it was even a debate...Yada started his review of Paul on the radio show in a postive light and it progressively became more negative as he encountered what he believed was mounting evidence. YY used to be be chock full o Paul. This was not some sort of premeditated hatchet job. Whatever you think of Yada's opinions or conclusions....he came by them honestly.

When the debate started here I think we are quick to forget that there was a lot of heat coming from the other side. It wasn't a one way street by any means. Furthermore, those who have decided to go their separate ways have done so of their own accord. As James pointed out the suspensions were taken off long ago and as far as I know...please correct me if I am wrong no suspensions were handed out merely because of a difference in opinion. They were given because of the general attitude the debate had taken and those who were respected and could have done much to help cooler heads prevail abandoned this community and went their own way. They were not left to languish for weeks or months but were promptly reinstated. Correct me if I am wrong but it seems to me like Matthew and you are still here able to say your peace about Paul and you in that persuation have done your best to defend Paul and you have not been silenced or censored. Again correct me if I am wrong. That is not to say that there were not snips and snaps and lapses and unkind words. I know there have been. There have also been apologies and affirmations of brotherhood as well. But I still hold that the general tenor has been for reconcillation and peace. Every time one of us says....we don't need Paul....what do you think that appeal means? Once again....I will say it....there were plenty of unkind things written by those in the Pauline camp before this mess all blew up. And as I look at the new swalchy pdf I can say it is still being done in the Pauline camp. There have been plenty....plenty of arguments that have come from a wide ranging variety of people on this forum that were original arguments and did not come from QP. I for one know that the majority of my responses were not lifted from QP and whether or not they were in the book I can't be sure....I can't recall every part....but simply I am not and the overwhelming majority are not just parrotting whatever Yada says in QP. When we have had our doubts and reservations about certain themes and conclusions in QP we have said so openly and honestly. There is a good page or more of responsa that has never been addressed....we have in sincerity showed our position just as you have. I eagerly await any response from any in this camp including you, matthew, kp, swalchy, or robski or whoever...if I have missed anyone. But it appears that they are not coming back. I welcome you to address the large back to back posts that James and I wrote in response that were never answered. I will also say this. Many of us in the anti-pauline camp have stated again and again that we are willing to drop the whole paul issue and get back to what matters and I have to honestly wonder if Paul would even come up rather than here or there if it were not for those in the Pauline camp constantly stirring the pot and bringing this issue back up from the bottom. You know all know this is a divisive and maddening issue and you know what position we hold and yet I feel it is constantly brought up. And then when we respond....somehow we are in the wrong.

I will also say this. As many have said here....and even as Peter has said....and I think even those in the Pauline camp will admit...Paul is confusing....he is everything to all people....as he himself admitted...to some he upholds Torah to the highest degree....to some....you get the catholic church and "new testament" christianity. He is confusion. That is something that you who embrace Paul cannot deny. Christianity in its merest theology comes from the works of Paul or if you must Pseudo-Paul...If all we had were the 4 Messianic accounts....I am sure we would have been able to find a way to screw it up...I have no doubt about that....but I am telling you....we would not have the vicelike and eternal grip of babylonian christo-mithraism that has plagued this earth for 2 millenia. To be sure the Romans would have more than likely tried to co-opt the Netzarim and the Derekhim....but without the writings of Paul to look to for a way to compromise and eschew Torah faithfulness....I have to wonder the fornication would have spread the way it did. The communities that resisted the perversions of Rome the longest were the communities in Ethiopia and and the middle east that rejected the Pauline writings. Paul talks about how terrible it would be to lead a brother astray and how one must endeavor to make sure that doesn't happen by what they do or say....well perhaps he should have taken his own advice. I am sorry but when I look at the consequences of 2000 years of confusion, delusion and ignorance....then I am ready and willing to drop Paul and pursue what truly matters. Torah....Nebiim....Ketubim.

Furthermore, you must judge every verse by the context of the verse and by what others say about the same theme. Knowing what we do about the rest of the letters of Yahuchanan I can say that the cheap grace gospel of simple belief is not to be found there and Y'aqob says that even the the demons believe and tremble....so are they brothers?

Are we in the anti-pauline camp perfect? By all means....no...not even on our best day. But I have to say....your post strikes me as the definition of the pot calling the kettle black.

I’m sorry you got that impression, because I’m blacker than any of you, I’m sure.

My post was not to single out any person or people, but lift up the attitude/behavior that I believe we’re called to in treating one another. I did not and do not mean to accuse any one person of anything – I did not mention any name except for Paul’s because my post was not about anyone in specific, but about the general way we, as followers of Yahushua, should treat one another.

I don’t see this as one camp against another at all – we’re supposed to be a family with One Father – and I believe the Scriptures teach us that there is one way to interact with one another as we grow in knowledge and the likeness of our Savior. And I also think that the Scriptures confirm that if we do not obey this means of interaction, we will fall into error as we pursue knowledge because YHWH will resist us (James 4:6, 1 Peter 5:5).

I’m an extremely thankful beneficiary of the gifts that YHWH has given to all here. It’s through interacting with humility, brotherly love and respect for everyone – from Paul on down – that we’ll be blessed in our pursuit of knowledge and truth. I’m humbly suggesting that Paul is not the problem, but how we’re relating to each other that’s the real problem.

In Love and Gratitude,
Karen

I'm not even sure Paul was a real person. There is evidence and reason strongly suggesting he was not a real historical person.

Marcion may be the real culprit. Who knows.

Some other names you might find interesting are, Irenaeus, Clement, Eusebius, Polycarp, Tertullian, Jerome, Muratorian Canon. You can also find these names in most “study Bibles” (bad name I know) look in “The Gospel According to Luke” “bnik” (bad name I know) In The Believer’s Study Bible New King James Version “bnik”

Jim

As far as I know Marcion was documented for having edited Paul's epistles and Luke's gospel, therefore if he created/fabricated Paul then there would be no need to edit Paul.

Also, which Paul was Peter referring to in 2 Peter 3? If Peter didn't write it then who did, and if Marcion wrote it then why not include it in his canon?

I just can't see why a person would suggest Paul didn't exist. Sounds like something an Atheist would suggest in an attempt to discredit Yahshua.



Swalchy's doc wasn't about trying to understand Paul better but rather a review of Yada's translation of Galatians from the Greek text. Stephen attempted to prove, and did in the end, that Yada's translation is flawed, more so than today's common English versions, which is an expected result from someone who has an obvious poor working knowledge of the Greek language. And because the translation is flawed it stands to reason Yada's commentary is flawed too.

danshelper, your thoughts are sound. Right though, I don't know? I do see in your few paragraphs, you listed scripture to make a point a few times. If Paul was of YHWH, wouldn't he too also use scripture (like Yahushua) to make a point? I'm still not going to be easily convinced about him. And I know it might bother some, and others couldn't give a care, but for me, who's' a nobody, I'll continue to look for meat in his words. I do for the most part find scripture pretty easily understood when approached from what Torah class has taught me. Look for the parallels and patterns. And if I look in scripture for a parallel for Paul, I find only one, King Saul. And I am quite sure TC teacher would be unhappy with that bc he constantly refers back to Paul in class, but even with him relating to Paul, most times even with this very smart man, it leads nowhere. In other words, he could have kept going and not hampered the story with it.
I know truth should be simple and its us that complicates it, but is anything the truth, until THAT person sees it?
Maybe if we read the next verse after Jeremiah 31:33, it will apply to us all also? In the end was Paul just a man and not sent? Did he or will he have given up anymore than any of us? I can say for one, I've given up a lifestyle that I cherished back then. I don't look back, Paul seems to and reminds us of it.

Matthew, if Stephens doc isn't about understanding Paul, then why waist time? Isn't scripture for the understanding? If Stephens review isn't about understanding Paul, then it's about helping Yada and anyone that reads QP, right? I've read this board now for quite a while and if I can make a suggestion to you and others that have zeroed in on the (your) path. I call you guys the "sages" of this forum, but when a person comes on with a heart felt question, truely needing a heart felt answer from someone of knowledge, alot of the time, that person is left hanging, and never returns. I watched a few guys (and gals) that were full of joy but needing some serious answers just meander off bc no one would help him or her address their questions.

Shalom and much peace!!!......everybody!

Again we see things different. I see Paul’s “Conversion” much the same way I see Constantine’s “Conversion”. Both claimed to have an encounter with God, both of which involve a degree of Pagan imagery, both “converted”, both stopped persecution, and both taught things contrary to God’s Towrah.

I do not see Pro-Towrah teaching in Paul’s writings, you do. I have heard several smart people explain how it is, and to me it seems like forcing a square peg into a round hole.



I can’t tell you how many Christian’s I have heard who tell stories of how bad their lives were, how they did drugs, were engaged in crime, did x y and z, and then they found the LORD, and Jebus saved them. Meanwhile they have no interest in coming to know Him for who he is, or even bother to read His word. Paul’s life changed, he said he was wrong before, but that doesn’t make him right now.

And if I lived at that time and meet him, I would treat him with love and try and show him the way, the same as I do with Christian’s today. But he is not alive, and his teachings are and have lead many people away from Yah. I can’t count how many times when discussing with Christian’s the significance of the Towrah I get quoted something from Paul as a way to dismiss it.



Are we denying the Towrah or Yahushua if we deny that Constantine had a “conversion”?

There are plenty of people who have changed their lives, but did that they came to know Yah. Looking at what he taught after his “conversion” I don’t believe that Paul came to know Yah.



You are assuming that the Messiayah worked through Paul, to me the evidence shows that he didn’t, any more than he worked through Constantine or any number of other people who claim to be working for God, but are teaching contrary to him.



I think Yahushua would prefer us to just ignore Paul’s writings altogether, and focus on His Towrah. Paul’s writings are as insignificant as that of any man. Yah’s Towrah is all that matters, His Word.

We can try to figure out how Paul’s teaching of Two Covenants conforms to Yah’s One Covenant, or we can study the Covenant that Yah has made, come to know it, understand it, and trust it.

We can view the Towrah as our dead husband that we are no longer bound to, or we can embrace it, study and observe it, trust it, and the God who gave it to us, as Yahushua taught.



No one was has ever been justified by works alone, and none of us have ever said that we are.

The Jeremiah verse is completely out of place here, as it speaks of events that have not yet happened. Jeremiah speaks of the time when Yah will renew his covenant reconciling the house of ‘Yisrael and the house of Yahudah to him, because they had broken His covenant. And he speaks of giving us the Towrah, writing it on our hearts and inner being.

Brotherly love is not the only measure of someone. Christians show a great amount of brotherly love toward each other, but by in large still don’t know Yah. And Yahushua told us what we would do if we loved him, “If any one may love me, my word he will keep, and my Father will love him, and unto him we will come, and abode with him we will make; he who is not loving me, my words doth not keep; and the word that ye hear is not mine, but the Father's who sent me.” Many of us see Paul as teaching against Yah’s Word, and I for one have not heard a compelling argument for how he is not. Therefore in my view Paul is not my brother.

Rob, Stephen, Matthew etc. are my brothers, you are my sister, and I will treat you all with all the love in the world, and I hope that comes across, regardless of difference we may have.



Here I would have to disagree with you. I don’t think man’s relationship with Yah changed after Yahushua. Trust and Reliance on Yah is and always was central to the relationship, all that changed is rather you were Trusting and Relying on Him to fulfill it, or Trusting and Relying that He has fulfilled it. It is still a matter of Trusting and Relying on Him, and the only way to do that is to come to know Him, and their remains but one way to come to know Yah, and that is through His Word, His Scripture.

James, is it really a fair assessment to compare Paul’s conversion with Constantine, or is it false witness?

From what I understand, Constantine was a murderer and adulterer after his “conversion”. One source says: “After being converted to Christianity, Constantine put to death his wife, his son, a nephew and his wife, and had Licinius (his co-emperor) and his son strangled after promising them their lives.”

We know that Paul stood and observed Stephen’s stoning (Acts 7:58, Scripture doesn’t say if he took part), but this again was before his conversion. From Scripture, we have no account of Paul performing any of the hideous crimes Constantine is known to have committed and it’s disingenuous to compare these two men. Peter warned that Paul’s words were distorted, just as Yahushua’s words were distorted to condemn Him by false witness (Mark 14:58).

Is it your understanding that there is no new birth? This is what I get from your post. If that’s the case, then along with Paul do you reject John’s writings, John 3:3, and Peter, 1 Peter 1:23? As I mentioned, I know I’m probably the blackest one here, but has no one else here experienced this complete transformation? This “new life”??

With Christians who have experienced changed lives but “have no interest in coming to know Him for who he is, or even bother to read His word” – is it fair to believe that this will always be the case? Haven’t we all grown in our understanding and commitment to our Savoir? Shouldn’t we believe in the potential in people and encourage them?

As a result of the Messiah’s work, the sacrifices and Levitical priesthood ceased, salvation opened to gentiles, there is no more necessity of a physical temple or synagogue to meet with YHWH – we are the temple, the Spirit is poured into everyone who trusts in Yahushua … these are seismic changes over the previous way and had an “upsetting the whole world” impact in the first century (John 12:19, Acts 16-20).

Is the direction here at YY best described as Ebionite? From what (little) I understand, the original Ebionites rejected Paul’s writings because they did not believe in the divinity of Yahushua, which Paul confirms. They also rejected John and maintained only Matthew’s account. This seems similar to the positions being taken here.

James, I’ll not take up any more space – let others have their say on whether Paul is a brother. YHWH bless you!

False teaching is much worse than bad behavior. Paul did not engage in the horrific acts that Constantine did, but if his teachings were false, and lead people away from Yah, as I see them doing, then he was just as bad. John Paul the second may never have killed a fly, but his teaching and the teaching of his church that he promoted have led to the spiritual murder of millions. The Dali Llama may not physically hurt anyone, but he is still a false teacher whose teachings have lead many from Yah.

I see false teachings in Paul’s writings.




My whole life changed when I came to know Yah, as I am sure most everyone here has. I don’t deny that it is a life changing experience. When we are born of Yah’s spirit we are changed. I don’t deny that at all.

I am not saying that Paul was wrong for anything he did prior to his “conversion”, I am saying that what he taught after his conversion, in my opinion, is against Yah’s Word. I don’t deny that someone can live a bad life, and turn it around when they come to know Yah, I just don’t see that as having happened with Paul. Yes he changed his behavior and stopped murdering people, but that doesn't mean he came to know Yah. If a murder converts to Islam and stops killing people that doesn't mean he know Yah and we should listen to what he teaches.




Yes, and with those people, who still have a chance I will and do engage and I encourage them to continuously seek Yah. With Paul that can’t be done, based on what we know of him, based on his writing I don’t think he ever came to know Yah, and I think his writing have led others away from Yah.




Considering no one here has said we should reject John, or that Yahushua was not Yahuweh I don’t see how anyone here is anything like them, outside of rejecting Paul’s writings. And those of us who have rejected Paul’s writings have not done so because we don’t believe Yahushua was divine, we reject Paul because after reading what he wrote we have concluded that what he taught was not in line with what Yahuweh or Yahushua taught.

Paul is without a doubt a false prophet.

This is not even debatable. I used to be one of the idiots arguing that Paul is "Really Pro-Torah" and I was dead wrong and had to repent.

His letters are utterly full of errors, Torah butchering, lying, and him undermining the authority of the 12.

Trying to reconcile the trash of Galatians is laughable.

People spend way to much time committing intellectual suicide arguing about Paul rather then taking Paul at face value, and once you stop being Paul's lawyer and let him speak for himself, you will be blown away and see the real Paul for the first time in your life. You will see his writings for the trash that they are.

Messiancs though are to busy saying "Shaul" and playing with their new Israel flag, to actual go learn Torah.

Go LEARN TORAH.........You will then LAUGH when someone tells you that Paul is not a false prophet.

And you will wonder just like I did "How could I have ever been so stupid"

The Jews have told you for 2,000 years Paul is full of it, you might want to listen to them!

And btw,

Yahushua was not Yahuweh. Yada is dead wrong about this also, just as he was dead wrong when he thought Paul was legit.

The bablyonian man/god/virgin birth is the utter highest form of pagan sun god worship repeated in religions across the planet.

Edited by user Sunday, April 10, 2011 3:32:32 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Of course, they also said Yahshua was full of it. And look where it got them, God called them dead, so much so that Yahweh has to revive them at the end of the 2000 years.



You a Karaite, or a blend of a Messianic and Jehovah's Witness?

Gosh, I'm struggling with the overwhelming amount of scripture that one has to ignore or twist to come to that conclusion.

yes I have read Stephen's work. In fact I read it as soon as he posted it on the site. And it has nothing to do with "attacking the Messenger". If Stephen is going to step up to the plate and call out virtually every textual scholar on the planet and say they are wrong, then this stuff needs to be available!

And the stand on textual scholars is well known regarding Galatians (In fact now let me ask, Stephen even mentions this in his work, so HAVE YOU READ HIS WORK?)

Pauline theology and filth occurs in every other non-disputed letter, Paul is still bogus, Paul is not magically resolved even if he did not write Galatians! In fact based on Romans and the Corinthians letters Paul is STILL a false prophet!

And regardless of whether Paul or the tooth fairy wrote Galatians or Romans THEY ARE STILL WRONG!

When you contacted Stephen to question him about all this, what did he say? You did contact him, didn't you? I don't really understand your belligerence, BigRitchie. Or why your reply indicates that you think I am pro-Paul. I despise the self-proclaimed "apostle" as much as anyone can.

All these attacks on Stephen's work bother me, especially since they're placed here instead of on Stephen's site itself and since they do not seek to directly involve Stephen himself. So if I sound a bit obtuse, that is why. Stephen is our brother, and I love him to pieces, just as I love you to pieces, BigRitchie. Stephen's work convinced me, but then, I've never given a damn about sheepskins and other credentials handed out by mere men. I prefer to look at the evidence that is presented to me and then form my opinion based on that evidence. As often as I can, I verify the evidence to make sure I am not being suckered (which has happened).

Peace.

Richard

To me the following verses confirm that Yahshua is Yahweh:

Isaiah 48:12-13 “Listen to me, Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am He; I am the First and I am the Last. My own hand laid the foundations of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens; when I summon them, they all stand up together.”

Revelation 1:8,17-18 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Yahweh God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.” ... When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.”

I would love to see those "hundreds upon hundreds of verses that prove he is NOT God."

Isaiah
45:18 For thus saith YHWH that created the heavens; Elohim himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am YHWH; and there is none else.

45:19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I YHWH speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.

45:20 Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto an el that cannot save.

45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I YHWH? and there is no Elohim else beside me; a just El and a Saviour; there is none besides me.

Here's a cut and paste of list I had compiled a while back:

Other scriptural comparisons of Yahuweh (Elohim) to Yahushua

Yahuweh is our shepherd
Psalm 23:1; Isaiah 40:11

Yahushua is our shepherd
John 10:11

Yahuweh is the I AM
Exodus 3:14 Yahuweh (Yahweh) means "He Is."

Yahushua Messiyah is the I AM
John 8:58, Revelation 1:8

Yahuweh is our creator
Isaiah 44:24

Yahushua Messiyah is our creator
John 1:3, Colossians 1:16

Yahuweh is our redeemer
Jeremiah 1:34, Isaiah 47:4

Yahushua Messiyah is our redeemer
Galatians 3:13; Revelation 5:9; Titus 2:14; Luke 24:21

Yahuweh is our savior
Isaiah 43:3,10; 45:21,22; 60:16; 49:26

Yahushua is our savior
1 John 4; Luke 2:11; 2 Timothy 1; Titus 2:13; 2 Peter 1:1

Yahuweh is our creator
Isaiah 44:24

Yahushua Messiyah is our creator
John 1:3, Colossians 1:16

More on Yahuweh as Yahushua

• Yahuweh knows “all things.” (1 John 3:20; Psalm 147:5) Yahushua knows “all things.” (John 16:30)
• Yahuweh is the only one who knows the hearts of all men. (1 Kings 8:39; Jeremiah 17:9-10) Yahushua knows the hearts of all men. (John 2:24-25; Rev. 2:18, 23)
• Yahuweh is our sanctifier. (Exodus 31:13) Yahushua sanctifies us. (Hebrews 10:10)
• Yahuweh is our peace. (Judges 6:23) Yahushua is our peace. (Ephesians 2:14)
• Yahuweh is our righteousness. (Jeremiah 23:6) Yahushua is our righteousness. ( 1 Corinthians 1:30)
• Yahuweh is our healer. (Exodus 15:26) Yahushua heals us. (Acts 9:34)
• Yahuweh God dwells in us. (2 Corinthians 6:16) Yahushua is in us. (Romans 8:10)2.
• Yahuweh is the giver of life who will not allow His people to be “snatched” out of His hand. (Deuteronomy 32:39) Yahushua is the giver of life who will not allow His people to be “snatched” out of His hand. (John 10:28)
• Yahuweh’s voice is “like the roar of rushing waters.” (Ezekiel 43:2) Yahushua’ “voice was like the sound of rushing waters.” (Revelation 1:15)
• Yahuweh is present everywhere. (Proverbs 15:3; Jeremiah 23:24; I Kings 8:27) Yahushua is omnipresent. (John 1:48; Matthew 18:20; 28:20)
• Yahuweh’s nature does not change. (Malachi 3:6) Yahushua’ nature does not change. (Hebrews 13:8)3.
• Yahuweh is the only God we are to “serve.”
(2 Kings 17:35) Yahushua is to be served. (Col. 3:24)
• Yahuweh is the only God to be “reverenceped.” (Exodus 34:14) Yahushua receives the same honor and “reverence” that the Father receives. (John 5:23; Revelation 5:11-14 compare with Rev. 4:10-11)4. No angel can receive “reverence.” (Revelation 22:8-9)
• Yahuweh the Lord is to be set apart as holy. (Isaiah 8:12b-13) Yahushua as Yahuweh is to be set apart as holy. (1 Peter 3:14b-15a)5.
• Yahuweh’s glory is not to be given to another.
(Isaiah 42:8) Yahushua shares Yahuweh’s glory. (Jn. 17:5)
• God’s name is Yahuweh (or Yahweh--YHWH). (Isaiah 42:8) Yahushua has Yahuweh’s name. (John 17:11; John 16:14-15)
• Yahuweh is the only God to be mentioned in prayer. (Exodus 23:13) Messiyahians are to pray to Yahushua.6.
(John 14:14)
• Calling upon Yahuweh (Joel 2:32) is the same as calling upon Yahushua. (Acts 2:21; Romans 10:9-13)7.
• Yahuweh “the true God” is called “eternal life.”
(1 John 5:20) Yahushua is called “the eternal life.”
(1 John 1:2)
• Yahuweh is the “mighty God.” (Jeremiah 32:17-18; Isaiah 10:20-21) Yahushua is the “mighty God”
(Isaiah 9:6) who is “Almighty.” (Revelation 1:7-8)8. THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD. (1 Timothy 1:17; Isaiah 44:8)
• Yahuweh is an “everlasting light.” (Psalm 27:1; Isaiah 60:19-20) Yahushua is the light of men and the everlasting light of the future city. (John 1:4-9; Revelation 21:23)
• Yahuweh is “the first and the last.” (Isaiah 44:6; 48:12) Yahushua is the “first and the last.”
(Revelation 1:17-18; 22:12-13, 20)
• Yahuweh is the “Alpha and the Omega.” (Revelation 1:8; Revelation 21:6-7) Yahushua is the “Alpha and the Omega.” (Revelation 22:12-13, 20)
• Yahuweh’s title is “the Holy One.” (Isaiah 47:4) Yahushua is “the Holy One.” (Acts 3:14; John 6:69)
• Yahuweh is the “stumbling stone” of Israel.
(Isaiah 8:13-15) Yahushua is the “stumbling stone” of Israel. (1 Peter 2:6-8)
• John the Baptist was to prepare the way for Yahuweh. (Isaiah 40:3) The Yahuweh who came was Yahushua.
(Mark 1:1-4; John 1:6-7, 23)
• Yahuweh is the one who was “pierced.” (Zechariah 12:10)9. Yahushua is the pierced Yahuweh. (John 19:34; Revelation 1:7-8)
• The Yahuweh who was sold for 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11:13) is Yahushua. (Matthew 27:2-6)
• Yahuweh is Lord of the elements. (Psalm 89:8-9) Yahushua is Lord of the elements. (Matthew 8:26-27; John 2:7-9)
• Yahuweh is the great Judge who gives life to whom he wishes and who renders to each man “according” to his “deeds.” (Psalm 98:9; Deuteronomy 32:39; Jeremiah 17:9-10) Yahushua is the only judge who gives life to whom he wishes and renders to each man “according” to his “deeds.” (John 5:21-22; Revelation 2:18, 23)
• Yahuweh is the only one who can forgive sins. (Mark 2:7; Daniel 9:9) Yahushua forgives sins. (Mark 2:10-11; Luke 24:46-47)
• Yahuweh is the great “shepherd” who leads his people to “the spring of the water of life.” (Psalm 23:1-2; Revelation 21:6-7) Yahushua as the “shepherd” of His people, leads them “to springs of the water of life.” (John 10:11-18; Revelation 7:17) THERE IS ONLY ONE SHEPHERD --John 10:16.
• Yahuweh is “Lord of Lords.” (Deuteronomy 10:17) Yahushua is “Lord of Lords.” (Revelation 17:14; 19:16) The Father is Lord of all. (Matthew 11:25;
Acts 17:24) Yahushua is “Lord of all.” (Acts 10:36) THERE IS ONLY ONE LORD. (Jude 4)
• Yahuweh is the Savior. (Isaiah 45:21-22) Yahushua is the Savior. (Titus 2:13; 2 Peter 1:1) THERE IS ONLY ONE SAVIOR. (Isaiah 43:11)
• Yahuweh created the universe. (Psalm 102:25-27) Yahushua created the universe. (John 1:3; Colossians 1:15-19;10. Hebrews 1:10-12).11. THERE IS ONLY ONE CREATOR. (Isaiah 44:24)
• Isaiah saw Yahuweh. (Isaiah 6:1-5) The Yahuweh that Isaiah saw was Yahushua. (John 12:41)

Creator: John 1:3 (Yahushua); Isa 40:28 (YHWH)
Savior: John 4:42 (Yahushua); Isa 45:22; 43:11 (YHWH)
Raise the dead: John 5:21 (Yahushua); I Sam 2:6 (YHWH)
Judge: John 5:27; Matt 25:31-46 (Yahushua); Joel 3:12 (YHWH)
Light: John 8:12 (Yahushua); Isa 60:19-20 (YHWH)
"I AM": John 8:58; 18:5,6 (Yahushua); Ex 3:14 (YHWH)
Shepherd: John 10:11 (Yahushua); Ps 23:1 (YHWH)
Glory of God: John 17:1,5 (Yahushua); Isa 42:8; 48:11 (YHWH)
First and last: Rev 1:17; 2:8 (Yahushua); Isa 41:4; 44:6 (YHWH)
Redeemer: Rev 5:9 (Yahushua); Hosea 13:14 (YHWH)
Bridegroom: Rev 21:2; Matt 25:1ff (Yahushua); Isa 62:5; Hosea 2:16 (YHWH)
Rock: I Cor 10:4 (Yahushua); Ps 18:2 (YHWH)
Forgiver of sins: Mark 2:7,10; Jer 31:34 (YHWH)
reverenceed by angels: Heb 1:6 (Yahushua); Ps 148:2 (YHWH)
Addressed in prayer: Acts 7:59 (Yahushua); throughout Hebrew Scriptures (YHWH)
Creator of angels: Col 1:16 (Yahushua); Ps 148:5 (YHWH)
Confessed: Phil 2:11 (Yahushua); Isa 45:23 (YHWH)
Because of who Yahushua is (i.e., YHWH) then we are to give Him the proper respect and reverence He deserves.

http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/paul/paul.htm

I haven't found anything, but this site's pretty informative about, Paul. I've looked it over now and then and haven't seen anything like that on there, but there's a lot there too.