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Offline Paula  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, March 2, 2011 7:25:01 AM(UTC)
Paula
Joined: 2/5/2011(UTC)
Posts: 17

Bishops boot 'booty' from revised Bible - USA Today

Bible Translation Gets an Update: U.S. Catholic Bishops Remove 'Booty' and 'Virgin' - theblaze.com

Is. 4:17 "the virgin" who "shall be with child..." is now simply a "young woman"
Offline ks77  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, March 2, 2011 11:45:26 PM(UTC)
ks77
Joined: 8/1/2010(UTC)
Posts: 69
Location: Australia

Really? That translation loses all meaning, its prophecy value, and doesn't appear miraculous at all...
Offline cgb2  
#3 Posted : Thursday, March 3, 2011 1:37:47 AM(UTC)
cgb2
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Isa 7:14 ThereforeH3651 the LordH136 himselfH1931 shall giveH5414 you a sign;H226 Behold,H2009 a virginH5959 shall conceive,H2029 and bearH3205 a son,H1121 and shall callH7121 his nameH8034 Immanuel.H6005

Strong:
H5959
עלמה
‛almâh
al-maw'
Feminine of H5958; a lass (as veiled or private): - damsel, maid, virgin.

BDB:
H5959
עלמה
‛almâh
BDB Definition:
1) virgin, young woman
1a) of marriageable age
1b) maid or newly married
Part of Speech: noun feminine

AHLB:
Youth: A young female at the prime age for work. [freq. 7] |kjv: virgin, maid, damsel| {str: 5959}

KJC:
H5959
עלמה
‛almâh
Total KJV Occurrences: 7
maid, 2
Exo_2:8, Pro_30:19
virgin, 2
Gen_24:43, Isa_7:14
virgins, 2
Son_1:3, Son_6:8
damsels, 1
Psa_68:25

Offline Paula  
#4 Posted : Thursday, March 3, 2011 4:00:01 AM(UTC)
Paula
Joined: 2/5/2011(UTC)
Posts: 17

Yeah, a young woman having a child isn't much of a miraculous sign, is it?

Cgb2, thanks for posting the definitions.

I suppose the linguistic argument for 'young woman' as in 'damsel' or 'maiden' could be made, but it seems like the verse has to be taken out of context in order for it to make sense that way. It also appears that 'virgin' is as much of a primary connotation as any of the other renderings so... I wonder what their real motive is for making this particular change?
Offline cgb2  
#5 Posted : Thursday, March 3, 2011 4:32:31 PM(UTC)
cgb2
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Paula wrote:
Yeah, a young woman having a child isn't much of a miraculous sign, is it?

Cgb2, thanks for posting the definitions.

I suppose the linguistic argument for 'young woman' as in 'damsel' or 'maiden' could be made, but it seems like the verse has to be taken out of context in order for it to make sense that way. It also appears that 'virgin' is as much of a primary connotation as any of the other renderings so... I wonder what their real motive is for making this particular change?


It seems what preceeds that even more so: Therefore Adoni "HIMSELF"
H1931
היא / הוּא
hû' / hı̂y'
BDB Definition:
1) he, she, it (pronoun third person singular)
1a) himself (with emphasis)
1b) resuming subject with emphasis
1c) (with minimum emphasis following predicate)
1d) (anticipating subject)
1e) (emphasizing predicate)
1f) that, it (neuter)
2) that (with article) (demonstrative pronoun)
===="SHALL GIVE YOU"
H5414
נתן
nâthan
BDB Definition:
1) to give, put, set
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to give, bestow, grant, permit, ascribe, employ, devote, consecrate, dedicate, pay wages, sell, exchange, lend, commit, entrust, give over, deliver up, yield produce, occasion, produce, requite to, report, mention, utter, stretch out, extend
1a2) to put, set, put on, put upon, set, appoint, assign, designate
1a3) to make, constitute
1b) (Niphal)
1b1) to be given, be bestowed, be provided, be entrusted to, be granted to, be permitted, be issued, be published, be uttered, be assigned
1b2) to be set, be put, be made, be inflicted
1c) (Hophal)
1c1) to be given, be bestowed, be given up, be delivered up
1c2) to be put upon
====== "A SIGN"
BDB Definition:
1) sign, signal
1a) a distinguishing mark
1b) banner
1c) remembrance
1d) miraculous sign
1e) omen
1f) warning
2) token, ensign, standard, miracle, proof
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: probably from H225 (in the sense of appearing)
Offline cgb2  
#6 Posted : Friday, March 4, 2011 2:57:58 AM(UTC)
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Out of curiousity, can someone who has the DSS Isaiah see if "Adoni" should really be "YHWH" in that verse?
Offline cgb2  
#7 Posted : Friday, March 4, 2011 3:06:14 AM(UTC)
cgb2
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cgb2 wrote:
Out of curiousity, can someone who has the DSS Isaiah see if "Adoni" should really be "YHWH" in that verse?


Found something to answer my own question. Yep, they replaced YHWH with Adoni in that verse.

http://www.ao.net/~fmoeller/qumdir.htm
http://www.ao.net/~fmoeller/qum-6.htm
http://www.ao.net/~fmoeller/qa-tran.htm#c6
Offline Daniel  
#8 Posted : Friday, March 4, 2011 4:21:31 AM(UTC)
Daniel
Joined: 10/24/2010(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: Florida

Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
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