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Offline tagim  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, February 1, 2011 6:18:48 PM(UTC)
tagim
Joined: 9/30/2010(UTC)
Posts: 218
Man
Location: westen new york

Thanks: 3 times
About a month ago, while surfing the web I came across a web site I would recommend to anyone wanting to obtain an excellent foundation in understanding of both the Scriptures (OT) and/or the New Testament (NT) The site is named TorahClass.com. The site is totally free and the classes can be viewed on line. They are also free to download. Personally, I started with Genesis and am now somewhat into Numbers. I believe the classes have been completed through 1 and 2 Samuel. The teacher, lecturer, has an organized congregation in Florida that is either affiliated with or is in close proximity to a Sunday worshiping group. His congregation is strictly Sabbath oriented believers of Yahshua. Even after reading all the books of Yada Yahweh, I found myself lacking what I would say of myself, a good, deep, solid and specific understanding of the Hebrew culture as exhibited in the days of the Scriptures. The lessons are printed and by a click of the mouse, the text is read in the voice of the lecturer. My plan is to read and play each and every class right through 2 Samuel, or however more are posted.

I would request a moderator or other members of this forum that have more than a modicum (as I do) of knowledge of Scripture to visit the site and evaluate if what I say is worthwhile and whether or not they would recommend others to "take the classes," because I feel it almost presumptuous of myself being educated enough to tell forum members here on how to get a good understanding of The Word. There is no registration or log in, no fee requested. I have no monetary interest in this whatsoever. The classes are pretty much in lock step with the books of Yada and KP and is very critical of the "church" and what it has done to the teachings of Yahshua.

Upon entering the site, simply look to the top left headings and thereupon click. The recommendation given, and one that I have found indispensable, is to start with Genesis and go right on through.
Offline Daniel  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, February 2, 2011 3:20:20 AM(UTC)
Daniel
Joined: 10/24/2010(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: Florida

tagim wrote:
The site is named TorahClass.com.


This outfit certainly looks like they are taking a step in the right direction!

Their flavor of following Yah might be a bit more palatable than some of the flavors served by Yada.
Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
Offline tagim  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, February 2, 2011 8:49:42 AM(UTC)
tagim
Joined: 9/30/2010(UTC)
Posts: 218
Man
Location: westen new york

Thanks: 3 times
Daniel, thank you for your reply and evaluation of TorahClass.com. At the risk of repetition and being downright ornery, I will again ask for a moderator(s) and/or others of this forum with advanced knowledge of Torah to visit this site and to spend at least an hour there to listen to one of the classes and to then reply at large of his opinion. Of course I recommend to all that need enrichment and understanding of Torah to go there, but a recommendation from myself would, and should, have far less impact. I feel so strongly about these classes that are taught free, on line, no log in, etc., that I just want to jump out of my skin shouting to all to go there. And in that regard, should I have posted this in another thread, so do it.

A caveat: these classes are not for the faint of heart or those seeking instant salvation. They are for the supposedly saved who would like to know how it all came about in that day and time of the ancient Hebrew. Physically, the attendees meet once weekly for more than a year. I (we) have the benefit to read and listen on line in the comfort of my home and for now more than two weeks of eight to 10 hours per day have advanced through book five, Numbers.

Being the congregation is organized, a religion, I investigated some of their funding and where the money goes, and I discovered a recent plea and collection of $300,000, the goal, reached, and they are to buy a site and conduct the teaching and ways of the ancient Hebrew in Israel! Such is the state of affairs in Israel today.

I could spent the daylight hours remaining and through the night extolling the benefit and virtue of attending these "classes" and I would still have more to say in the morning. I recommend you go there. I GUARANTEE you will be pleased.
Offline Noach  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, February 2, 2011 9:41:18 AM(UTC)
Noach
Joined: 7/5/2007(UTC)
Posts: 127

Tagim,

You don't need advanced knowledge of the Torah to be able to discern what is true. Yahuwah tells us that the Torah is trustworthy and reliable, making understanding simple for the open minded.

That said, the site you referenced has some major errors in their "Principles and Statements of Faith". They also have errors in the FAQ section. I think you will get much more out of reading and studying from Yada Yahweh. This group doesn't hold a candle to what Yada Yahweh can help you with. I would recommend spending your time researching what Yada Yahweh has presented. I think it will be much more fullfilling for you.

I have read things in Yada Yahweh that have shook me to my core and helped me completely change my perspective. I don't think this site will do that for you.
Offline Daniel  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, February 2, 2011 10:05:52 AM(UTC)
Daniel
Joined: 10/24/2010(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: Florida

Noach wrote:
the site you referenced has some major errors in their "Principles and Statements of Faith". They also have errors in the FAQ section. I think you will get much more out of reading and studying from Yada Yahweh. This group doesn't hold a candle to what Yada Yahweh can help you with.


Regarding their "Errors", please know that they have not (yet) arrived at all of the same conclusions that Yada has.

For that matter, the 2008 version of YY has "errors" when compared to the 2010 version!

The TorahClass.com is a step in the right direction when compared to mainline churchianity and/or rabbinic judaism. I'd say it is light-years in the right direction!

For some people, the "meat" presented in YY is too difficult to digest at this time. TorahClass.com could be the "milk" that they need to get "nourished" and prevent them from "starving to death" in churches. Once they have gotten some proper "nourishment", "meat" can be introduced to their "diet".

Some people that I have referred to YY have had such a violent reaction to the way the material is presented there that they won't even speak to me. Those kind of people may be better served by starting at TorahClass.com. Other "strong minded" people can dive straight into YY with no problem, but I'm sure that they will learn a thing or two from TorahClass.com.

This is not an "either YY or TorahClass.com" choice, we can have as much as we like of both.

Eat Up!
Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
Offline tagim  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, February 2, 2011 12:59:02 PM(UTC)
tagim
Joined: 9/30/2010(UTC)
Posts: 218
Man
Location: westen new york

Thanks: 3 times
Noach, a quick glance at the statement of fact in no way serves justice to what I am talking about. I attempted on two previous replies to better describe TorahClass.com and what the classes all consisted of, but, alas, my posts went up into cyber space. Honestly, and in reality, the classes trace ancient Hebrew genealogy and customs minutely from creation. With all due respects, you could not have spent adequate time there and have come to a different conclusion. The classes are harshly critical of the church. In fact, he accuses the church of largely ignoring the Torah, and particularly the Sabbath, dozens and dozens of times. So, at least in that regard, pardon my criticism of you. At every stroke the lecturer stresses that simply reading the NT and attending services leaves the worshiper wholly inadequate and unprepared to learning or knowing Scripture, and of being unsaved, by merely relying upon Yah's son.

Conversely, as Daniel has said, the foundational points, the customs, lives of the Hebrews, the how and why the Hebrews changed over the many centuries, is minutely detailed and far easier to digest than a reading of YY. And that was to be my main thrust, as Daniel has so eloquently pointed out. I spent months readying YY, everything on the site with the exception of "Tea with Terrorists." I walked from Babylon, trusting Yada and KP, as I still do today. Albeit, all that reading will not equate with the step by step examination of the Hebrews as they lived during that time, their thoughts, habits, culture, sacrifices which governed their lives and how to behave as directed by Yah (when even the Torah had not yet been given to Mo). It explains how Yah shaped his people by patterns. And those patterns continued throughout their generations as directed by Yah. The result, when the Greek translated, or made attempts to, the Scriptures, they botched it big time. Greeks think in logic and ask "why." The Hebrew learned by rote and patterns.

Because I have spent an adequate amount of time attending these "classes," I will borrow from Yada to tell you, Noach, if you want to bequeath a valid criticism of the site, spend an adequate amount of time there and come back with specifics. I dare say you will be much more generous in your response. I have often expressed to others I refer to YY that I find not a shred of untruth in his writings. I can say the same for TorahClass.com. The lecturer is simply laying out a well planned, documented explanation of Torah that is easily understood. The lecturer has no agenda and one purpose: to teach Torah, and that is does.

Finally I say, as Daniel does, there are many here who can and should benefit from a thorough understanding of Torah. It is a disservice to out of hand dismiss the classes merely maybe because it is a part of "organized religion."
Offline Walt  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, February 2, 2011 5:30:47 PM(UTC)
Walt
Joined: 10/26/2008(UTC)
Posts: 374
Man

I'm with Noach on this
They are promoting christianity & the bible - what we are fleeing and escaping from
And the statement of belief is there for a purpose - it tells you what angle they are teaching from. It's the 1st place I go look - if they line up with what I accept as TRUTH, I'll did deeper. With their beliefs it's "been there, sold the t-shirt & don't want it back" - it's a step in the wrong direction. If in reading the ingredients, it lists poisons, why do I want to continue and taste it????
It's not a matter of a different flavor - it's promoting false religion & lies - it runs contrary to everything YY teaches
Wht study Torah from someone if they are on the wrong path

It's not about how digestible or palatable it is (we are warned against this) - it's about the source & truthfulness
Yada could make YY easier to swallow by adding artificial flavoring and sugar - but he doesn't want to contribute to the spiritual diabeties problem - he wants to help make people healthier, not sicker.
I don't desire to learn traditions of men - I want Yah's TRUTH
I've done enough of having to unlearn lies & myths - I don't want to add more

If you don't want any criticism on what they are selling - don't ask for it
Offline Noach  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, February 2, 2011 5:45:51 PM(UTC)
Noach
Joined: 7/5/2007(UTC)
Posts: 127

Wow, feels like an agenda here Tagim. I'm just saying. I am confused as to why you even asked for comments on it. It appears that you are very passionate about this website.

I didn't say it didn't have any value in my last post, but I will say it now. I don't think it has a shred of value if they can't even get the Messiah's name right. "Yeshua" is a rabbinic corruption, yet they promote like its correct. That's as far as I need to get.

The stuff they have wrong, I learned in five minutes on YY. It seems that you are more eager to defend this site at all costs, than listen to criticism of it. If you find value in it, fine, but I think that group would be better served coming to learn from YY.
Offline tagim  
#9 Posted : Thursday, February 3, 2011 2:14:51 AM(UTC)
tagim
Joined: 9/30/2010(UTC)
Posts: 218
Man
Location: westen new york

Thanks: 3 times
Forgive me, but I am completely frustrated. Two times in succession until just a minute ago, I attempted to post lengthly responses to questions and statements raised by Walt and Roach. They disappeared to a blank page saying a critical error has occurred. I ask, please, someone in charge attend to this problem. There is no way in Yah's earth can I remember all I have written, or either whether I can adequately summarize. I will try for a third time.

Roach, Walt, I sincerely respect and welcome all your opinions and criticisms, be it of myself or others, as I have great regard of the knowledge you hold. In fact, BEFORE I initially posted on this subject, I anticipated postings by you and that they would be critical. As you will find from my earliest posts, this forum is the first I have ever put anything on line, ever. I think my feet should be held to the fire for my postings and that this debate should exist until it is resolved in fellowship. The best I can offer toward that path is for two (at least) witnesses (Hebrew Law) investigate and give findings. I care not they take their biases with them. For when I first ventured onto the site, even though on line, I felt as though I had stealthily entered into an X-rated movie, eeeks! A church! I feel rage many times for the years of being lied to. I have to cut this short because I fear the same thing will happen to this post. I will post more, but I would hope that the scope of this broaden and that a couple members put in a few hours to evaluate what I have said. Just now I fear that if I stay long on my comments, they will again disappear and I will be finished with it.
Offline James  
#10 Posted : Thursday, February 3, 2011 2:21:29 AM(UTC)
James
Joined: 10/23/2007(UTC)
Posts: 2,616
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Location: Texas

Thanks: 5 times
Was thanked: 216 time(s) in 149 post(s)
tagim wrote:
Forgive me, but I am completely frustrated. Two times in succession until just a minute ago, I attempted to post lengthly responses to questions and statements raised by Walt and Roach. They disappeared to a blank page saying a critical error has occurred. I ask, please, someone in charge attend to this problem. There is no way in Yah's earth can I remember all I have written, or either whether I can adequately summarize.


Unfortunately that is beyond the scope of my ability. What I can say is when it has happened to me I have found that if you press the back button on your browser what you typed is usually still there. And I would recommend always copy what you have written before clicking the post button, just to be sure. It's frustrating I know, and I wish there was something I could do about it. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline tagim  
#11 Posted : Thursday, February 3, 2011 2:56:37 AM(UTC)
tagim
Joined: 9/30/2010(UTC)
Posts: 218
Man
Location: westen new york

Thanks: 3 times
Now that my post got to the board, I feel a little confidence to continue on with the subject. I should describe the lecturer.

He is obviously Hebrew/Jewish and adheres to the Hebrew/Jewish/Christian practice of faith, whatever that is. The attendees are obviously Sunday Christians. He prefaces many classes (weekly) telling the attendees they will be shocked, hurt and angry with what he will say and that he expects they will not return the following week. He tells them it is his preference to use Yah's proper name (however it is pronounce), Yud Hey va Hey, or some such, but will intersperse "Lord" or "God" for their benefit and clarity. He, dozens of time, emits a diatribe on the "church" about how it has deprecated Yah and "Yeshua," the Torah and how it is rarely mentioned in their services; that without their lives being in conformity with Torah, they are rightly set apart from Yah. He describes the NT as fifty percent Torah, the rest copy edited. Much, much more criticism is evoked at the risk of mass stampede. He is forthright, honest and frank. By no means does he excuse what goes on in church, but instead tells where they are headed by continuing in their ways. And he explains just where they are today, in the end of end times as prophesied, adding this is the last Yobel; that we have brought on and are deserving of our destruction for not obeying the Torah. He does not contradict Yada or Ken. He lays out the Torah so that it can be felt and clearly understood by the less informed. He shows where and how the Greek, by not observing the customs and times have mistranslated much of what we read today, and that "Jesus" would not recognize that calling in his day.

I have no ax to grind by what I am saying. I simply ask the cover be pulled back objectively and fairly. Unfortunately, the only way to do that is to listen to the lessons. I do not recommend anything about or on the site. My only interest was and is his classes. I am sure I will read more on this, and I honestly welcome it. It is not for me to attempt in the least to lead others away from this site. It is the best I could hope for.
Offline Walt  
#12 Posted : Thursday, February 3, 2011 3:35:24 AM(UTC)
Walt
Joined: 10/26/2008(UTC)
Posts: 374
Man

tagim wrote:
Now that my post got to the board, I feel a little confidence to continue on with the subject. I should describe the lecturer.

He is obviously Hebrew/Jewish and adheres to the Hebrew/Jewish/Christian practice of faith, whatever that is. The attendees are obviously Sunday Christians. He prefaces many classes (weekly) telling the attendees they will be shocked, hurt and angry with what he will say and that he expects they will not return the following week. He tells them it is his preference to use Yah's proper name (however it is pronounce), Yud Hey va Hey, or some such, but will intersperse "Lord" or "God" for their benefit and clarity. He, dozens of time, emits a diatribe on the "church" about how it has deprecated Yah and "Yeshua," the Torah and how it is rarely mentioned in their services; that without their lives being in conformity with Torah, they are rightly set apart from Yah. He describes the NT as fifty percent Torah, the rest copy edited. Much, much more criticism is evoked at the risk of mass stampede. He is forthright, honest and frank. By no means does he excuse what goes on in church, but instead tells where they are headed by continuing in their ways. And he explains just where they are today, in the end of end times as prophesied, adding this is the last Yobel; that we have brought on and are deserving of our destruction for not obeying the Torah. He does not contradict Yada or Ken. He lays out the Torah so that it can be felt and clearly understood by the less informed. He shows where and how the Greek, by not observing the customs and times have mistranslated much of what we read today, and that "Jesus" would not recognize that calling in his day.

I have no ax to grind by what I am saying. I simply ask the cover be pulled back objectively and fairly. Unfortunately, the only way to do that is to listen to the lessons. I do not recommend anything about or on the site. My only interest was and is his classes. I am sure I will read more on this, and I honestly welcome it. It is not for me to attempt in the least to lead others away from this site. It is the best I could hope for.


Not trying to be mean, but there is plenty of GREAT GREAT stuff here to learn about Yah & Torah and don't think it's a good idea to learn what runs contrary to Yah's TRUTH
.
HIS PREFERENCE is to us YHWH, but still promotes using" The LORD" (his statement of belief shows this)
For someone that is still in christian church this is a step in the right direction towards TRUTH (got to start somewhere and I started my journey at the same type teachings before finding YY), but having arrived here - it's big big steps backwards
There are major problems with the beliefs he presents - more wrong than right

It's been frustrating to have to keep tossing out things I've learned, after discovering it wasn't based on Yah's truth - and then learn more untruths, and have to purge them.
It's taken years of wasted money & time & limited brain space
Removing false understandings isn't easy as they get ingrained in our thought processes in ways you don't realize
You've arrived at a place that has LOTS & LOTS of good wholesome ingredients - don't want to see you eat poisoned & spoiled stuff and deal with the cramps and other stuff from eating bad stuff

If you want something easier to grasp and what is being presented @ YY - people here can give you some suggestions on other books and sites - it's not a YY only thing
Maybe even start with KPs writings on Torah - he will show you what the Jewish religious leaders to corrupt Yah's Torah



To fix the posting problem - write your post on word, then copy & paste it here
What seems to happen is that when you have a post window open for awhile - a timer logs you out, which makes the posting fail since an unlogged in person can't post
Also what can be done is when you goto post - reopen YY forum in a new tab and make sure you are logged in before you goto post
Offline Daniel  
#13 Posted : Thursday, February 3, 2011 5:11:06 AM(UTC)
Daniel
Joined: 10/24/2010(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: Florida

Walt wrote:
Maybe even start with KPs writings on Torah - he will show you what the Jewish religious leaders to corrupt Yah's Torah


I will no longer send weak minded religious people straight to KP & Yada's web-books. Here is why: I direct them to The Owner's Manual, they start reading, scroll down the page, then see the link to Questioning Paul. They click on the link to QP and then KABOOM! The weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth begins because they say that I am telling them that Paul was an agent of Satan, or worse, a homo.

This has happened too many times for me to ignore the pattern.

People who fall between the "Hard core atheist" and "Soft agnostic" points of the spectrum can be sent straight to YY.

Some "Bitter ex-Catholics" can be sent straight to QP.

The "Hal Lindsey/Late Great Planet Earth/Rapture Fever" crew could be sent to FH, except that they will find the link to QP... KABOOM!

A couple of my buddies have made our own copies of TOM and FH that we distribute to "weak minded" people that "can't handle the [whole] truth" (at this time), just so they don't stumble upon QP and the 2010 version of YY.

For these people, TorahClass.com might be the first step on their path back to Zion.

Walt, Noach, not everyone is as strong minded as you are. Not everyone is exactly where you two are on their theodicy, at this moment. Please be considerate of our weaker brothers and sisters, they are like babies who have been feed nothing but Twinkies, heroin and bacon all of their spiritual lives. If you demand that they immediately switch to a completely kosher diet, many will reject any notion of reform and not even listen.

By the way: The Owner's Manual often refers to "Jesus", "Lord" and makes extensive use of the NLT (Possibly the WORST widely published English language translation I've ever read!). Do we call KP an agent of the Vatican, or worse, Zondervan? NO! We pull up our big-girl-panties and understand that the last guy who spoke "the whole truth" walked on this earth (and Lake Kinneret) 2,000 years ago. Everybody else is, at best, a second string player. This includes Yada and KP!

As an aside: When I am speaking to a follower of Muhammad/Allah, part of the conversation starts out with "What do you think about (the life/work/claims of) Isa?". Later on (minutes/hours/days/weeks/months later, sometimes) we get around to the part where I have to say "His name isn't 'Isa'... It is not 'Jesus', either..." Am I leading them astray by waiting for the right moment to correct their understanding of what His name is? I hope not!

Walt, Noach, we love you guys and it is obvious that you two love YHWH and are serious and diligent followers of His "instructions for living". If your theology is perfect and your method of presenting it is flawless, we will use only your apologetic. If that is not the case, please allow others to use various stepping stones on their path. It is just like when a doctor has to get a patient "healthy enough" before they can be go in for a surgical procedure.

My dad says that our first year in "heaven" will be mostly taken up with a class entitled Theo-101, where we learn how all this stuff really fits together. I can assure you that Walt, Noach, Yada, KP and even Richard (flintface) will learn a thing or two in that class!

[See how long I can make my posts, tagim?]

Walt and Noach, wouldn't it be better to say:
Quote:
"I've listened to several of TorahClass.com's lessons. There is a great deal of good material there. I don't agree with some of their beliefs, specifically [x, y and z], but I have much more in common with them than any 'church' I have ever encountered. I recommend that you take a look at YY, TOM, FH, too. After you have finished these, take a peek at QP, someday"


Dan "Celebrate-the-similarities-Discuss-the-differences' Nafe
Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
Offline Walt  
#14 Posted : Thursday, February 3, 2011 5:36:45 AM(UTC)
Walt
Joined: 10/26/2008(UTC)
Posts: 374
Man

Daniel wrote:

Walt and Noach, wouldn't it be better to say:

Quote:
"I've listened to several of TorahClass.com's lessons. There is a great deal of good material there. I don't agree with some of their beliefs, specifically [x, y and z], but I have much more in common with them than any 'church' I have ever encountered. I recommend that you take a look at YY, TOM, FH, too. After you have finished these, take a peek at QP, someday"



NO
Because that's NOT what I think - I should lie????
I think it would be better to keep my opinions to myself

With your reasoning - Yada shouldn't have written his writings because they are to bold with truth - he should have blended it with religious bs

Bottom line - I won't recommenced poison seeds - you can say I'm wrong all you want - Yahushua didn't, He unapologetically spoke TRUTHS and angered many many many people
Offline Daniel  
#15 Posted : Thursday, February 3, 2011 7:23:24 AM(UTC)
Daniel
Joined: 10/24/2010(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: Florida

Walt wrote:
With your reasoning - Yada shouldn't have written his writings because they are to bold with truth - he should have blended it with religious bs


Not at all.

I have shared Yada's writings with several people and had have all too many of them have really bad reactions to the way things were presented. A family who where dear friends of my family won't even speak to us because they read the first page of The Owner's Manual, and did not like what they saw when they clicked on Questioning Paul. Their ears are now shut to any examination of churchanity. If you have not encountered this phenomenon, I suspect that you have not shared this material with very many people.

Sometimes it is not what you say, but how you say it.

Some people need truth introduced to them a little at a time.

Others can take it all at once.

There are six billion people on this planet, each one will require a slightly different presentation of YHWH's "instructions for living".

Everything that Yada & KP have published can be verified from other sources (except, perhaps the "Paul was a homo" theory). None of those other sources have everything that KP and Yada have assembled in one place. There are some truths that the other sources have discovered that KP and Yada have not yet discovered and/or published.

My very first posting to this forum was a gentle correction to KP regarding the "clean/unclean" status of a certain species of fish. I did not say "Ken Power is a liar and is leading people to hell because of the false doctrine he is teaching and everything else he says is false and no one should waste their time listening to what he says because he cannot even clearly understand what types of fish are clean or unclean blah blah blah blah blah blah blah..." KP went and looked at the evidence I presented, then fixed his errant doctrine. We have since become friends and my wife and I value the personal counseling he has given us greatly.

I do not agree with every single thing published by Yada or KP. KP does not agree with everything Yada says. Yada(2008) doesn't agree with everything Yada(2010) says!

Do you agree with everything Yada says?
Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
Offline Noach  
#16 Posted : Thursday, February 3, 2011 8:45:31 AM(UTC)
Noach
Joined: 7/5/2007(UTC)
Posts: 127

Man, I wish we could sit around a table and talk together. The free flow of ideas and understanding would be priceless. Yahuwah would be right there with us. One day.

In the mean time, I have to pound away at this keyboard to make my thoughts come across. I’m terrible at typing.

Tagim/Daniel, there are certain basics that if a self promoted teacher of the Torah can’t figure out, would be very concerning to me. This group doesn’t seem to have a grasp of the basics. Their continued use and promotion of LORD and Jesus, especially from a group that claims to know the difference would make me question their priorities right off the bat. Their use and promotion of Yeshu(a) is downright sickening. Tagim, don’t be afraid to correct this teacher based on what you have learned from YY. If he brushes you off, especially regarding Messiah’s Name, I would definitely reconsider this groups motives. The truth is always more important than ideology.

Daniel, I wish I was strong minded, I’m not, but when it comes to Yahuwah, I am passionate, so is Walt. He took a wretch like me and showed me the way to Him and away from religion. There isn’t much time left. If people can’t deal with what you are teaching, there is nothing you can do about it. They have to change their perspective (metanoeo) before anything you say will sink in. Yahuwah was direct as possible with Abraham. There was no room baby steps. When He asked Abraham to walk with Him, it was a yes or no answer. Abraham didn’t need time to think about, or time to pack up his Christmas tree, or easter baskets. He chose wisely. The most loving and important thing we can do is present the truth bluntly. If it falls on deaf ears, move on.

There is no point in trying to learn something from a group, when you know more than them. One of the groups beliefs, is that the bible is the inerrant word of God, passed down with only minor translation errors. Tagim, based on what you have read in YY, you know this is a fallacy, a huge one. Why endure this type of error.

In the end, you have to do what you are comfortable with. If you enjoy and benefit from your Torah study with this group, wonderful, you can share what you have learned with us. You can also ask us for our opinions on their teachings. Since you asked us our opinions on the site, we have given them to you. I hope they have helped. None of my comments were critical of you, only of the site. I am happy you are with us in the YY forum.
Offline Daniel  
#17 Posted : Thursday, February 3, 2011 10:02:13 AM(UTC)
Daniel
Joined: 10/24/2010(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: Florida

Noach wrote:
Man, I wish we could sit around a table and talk together.


That would be great fun!

I think we will have a chance to talk together when we have been rounded up and put on train cars for transport to the extermination camps. (Next Tuesday, I think...)

Noach wrote:
Tagim, don’t be afraid to correct this teacher based on what you have learned from YY. If he brushes you off, especially regarding Messiah’s Name, I would definitely reconsider this groups motives. The truth is always more important than ideology.


Yessir! Get after it. He may not know any better!

Noach wrote:
There isn’t much time left.


We are definitely "in the last two minutes of the game". (Have you seen today's [Feb 03, 2011] news? Cairo is in its second or third day of rioting.)


Noach wrote:
If people can’t deal with what you are teaching, there is nothing you can do about it.


When I am speaking to an Arab, he is much better able to 'deal with what I am teaching' if I use Arabic language, terms, concepts and even, [gasp] names (initially, to establish context). I think that we should try to present these truths in a way that our audience can grasp it. Yada's approach is a way, but not the only way to present the material.

Noach wrote:
They have to change their perspective (metanoeo) before anything you say will sink in.


Chicken or Egg Scenario: How are they going to change their perspective if they won't even listen to what you are trying to say? If they 'walk out of the classroom' before the lecture even starts, they are going to have any information that might alter their perspective.

Noach wrote:
The most loving and important thing we can do is present the truth bluntly. If it falls on deaf ears, move on.


In my best Dr. Phil voice: "Howz that workin for ya?" How many people have you been able to influence that ended up changing their perspective? My score [so far] is 5 (started in 2008). Using the "blunt" approach, I have driven off at least 6.

Some people will respond well to a "Dennis Miller"-type of presentation of these facts.

Others will respond to a "Mr. Rogers"-type of presentation.

Almost no one would respond to either type of presentation equally well.

Some will never respond at all.

Noach wrote:
There is no point in trying to learn something from a group, when you know more than them.


So you are saying that Yada and KP have covered everything you would ever need to know?

Is there nothing that can be learnt from this mob?

Or is it that you do not think that Tagim is mature enough to "filter" out the stuff that he knows is wrong and benefit from the things that are true?

Noach wrote:
One of the groups beliefs, is that the bible is the inerrant word of God, passed down with only minor translation errors. Tagim, based on what you have read in YY, you know this is a fallacy, a huge one. Why endure this type of error.


Tagim knows that, you know that, Walt knows that, and even I know that. The guys at TorahClass.com have not yet come to realize that, yet. Tagim should contact them and engage in a discussion of the facts.

I will be passing through the Merritt Island area this spring and will attempt to arrange a meeting with them. Can you guess what I intend to discuss with them????

They have a great deal of stuff that is right, and a few things that are wrong.

Same goes for you, me, flintface, Yada and KP.

(Not Walt, though, he has everything perfectly right!)

(Just kidding, Walt!)

Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
Offline tagim  
#18 Posted : Thursday, February 3, 2011 3:10:48 PM(UTC)
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It worked!

Thank you all, again, about how to get things right here. If all goes well on the next round, we might properly put an end to this thread, as it seems we four are the most and only interested; I will default to the rest. Yes, Roach, it would be just great to face your faces. I am sure there would be some hugs, too. Before I forget, I mentioned sometime ago about noticing posters with legends inviting to gather in the chat room. Is that a thing of the past, or still active. I tried PalTalk to get there, unsuccessfully. It is not important, just curious.

As I mentioned earlier, this forum is my first venture ever engaging in posting in a forum, and now the second time a controversial nature. The other one was circumcision. Well, I must fess up. I am 76 and uncircumcised. After much research, abundant help from members at large, I have made my decision. I see the surgeon Monday. Alas, he must first consult with me. I think I should bring my K-bar to the consultation. The only thing I hope to accomplish from that meeting is to convince him he should be paid from my insurance carrier. I should have called a Moyle. Anyway, pray Yah, that is a done deal. The other thing that constantly grieves me, causes endless pain and anxiety, is my relations with friends and family. More fess up.

From a toddler to when I left to join the Marines during the Korean War (the one we are to forget about, the “Forgotten War,” I grew up in an area euphemistically called The South Bronx, about a couple miles southeast of the Yankee Stadium. We were predominantly Irish Catholic, hated Jews and Nig*&^s and spics. The apartment I lived there can be seen in the film, “Fort Apache, The Bronx” in the scene where one is thrown from my rooftop by the police. It was like that and more. By age 16 I was ejected from the all male Bronx Vocational High School. I should have been incarcerated for many years for my deeds, but wrongfully I spent merely a half dozen one night or more stands in jail. I confessed these sins to priests numerous time throughout the years to the tune of more than a hundred hail mary's, our Father(s) and act of contrition(s), because my gut has never felt right since. If I could see those priests today, I would wring their necks like sponges. And that would only scratch the surface of my anger. I left that environment and mindset of evil many years ago, but the anguish and hurt I have caused lives still within me daily. I have not been able to feel “clean,” still through Yah's son, while knowing only he can do that. That is why this study of the Torah is so important to me. There was no redemption for me at that time; the transfer of duties from Mo to the 70, then exactly the same PATTERN of transfer to His Son, the customs and PATTERNS as directed by Yah of how to shape his people – all were done with specific plan and purpose in mind, always shown by PATTERNS. The Greek never recognized that Yah taught by PATTERNS and that is why we see what we see today. This is what I see pounded out chapter by chapter, book by book, “PATTERNS, PATTERNS, PATTERNS, people! Don't you get it? You learn from your Bibles to ask why as translated through Greek logic. Yah never taught in logic. YHWH taught in PATTERNS and you better get it! Otherwise you are doomed.”

DANIEL WROTE:
I will no longer send weak minded religious people straight to KP & Yada's web-books. Here is why: I direct them to The Owner's Manual, they start reading, scroll down the page, then see the link to Questioning Paul. They click on the link to QP and then KABOOM! The weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth begins because they say that I am telling them that Paul was an agent of Satan, or worse, a homo.


I did the same thing. The net result: I have lost all my friends, all my relatives, and three of my five children. Even my closest in-law friend whom I thought I could approach and did will no longer allow contact and professes I have joined a cult. I am in the process of being in better relations with two of the three lost-to-me children and with your help I will succeed. All their ages are 50, 47, 44, twins 20. And this is after my third marriage now of more than 30 years. And now that I have your commitment to help I expect to hold you to that promise, and I will need your help. The 47-year old male is a 30-year prominent CC pastor in Los Angeles and we have agreed to dialogue. His guns are ready, mine are not. He has been to YY and is anxious to commence the dialogue.

Well, I have already given you too much of me to chew on; I am satisfied with what I have received, your promise. I have downloaded The Word, including some modules. Now I must spend countless more hours cleaning out my hard disk so I can organize and utilize the package.

I did have more to say in defense of this Hebrew/Jewish/Christian fellow, but I will not except brief mention below as at this point is now unnecessary. What I do is sneak onto the site, go down the hall to the classes and play them. Mind you, why I defend him so much is because he is all Torah, no “religious” overtone or pretext. If I were to package all his classes into what would become a very large book and lay it upon your desks, Walt and Roach, you would read it and say, “Good stuff. Nice reading,” because it is void of anything else he does outside of that class, all free. I just made assumptions that he has a Hebrew/Jewish/Christian congregation nearby. You would not see anything but a large novel as other respectful commentary people have done.

I not only respect your feelings on this matter (Roach and Walt), I think they are vital to this forum. I also appreciate and thank Daniel for given me breathing room. There is more than one way to skin a cat. I need to find the successful way, because thus far I have lost most everything. My wife now understands me, at least. Pray she joins with me as I will never change.

I will not post more on this subject as I think I have exhausted it, from my perspective, anyway. What I mean is, whoever reads this thread, sees a benefit/sees no benefit, should have had at least a full opportunity to choose. I have given and received.

If you read this, I was successful. If not, my computer will not last the night.
Offline RidesWithYah  
#19 Posted : Thursday, February 3, 2011 3:30:50 PM(UTC)
RidesWithYah
Joined: 6/10/2008(UTC)
Posts: 331

Quote:
If all goes well on the next round, we might properly put an end to this thread


You mean, the thread you totally jacked? <grin>

I know you're new to the boards, but I'm afraid the number of commenters has been limited, since a lot of folks won't find your link, if they saw but weren't interested in the original topic. (The Aleph Taw!)
Would have been better to start a new thread titled "Torah Class" or some such.
Next time, eh?

Not to mention that nobody commented on my .pdf... (grumble)

Shalom!
Offline tagim  
#20 Posted : Thursday, February 3, 2011 4:23:26 PM(UTC)
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Nah, Rides, you are right, I beat it to death. Daniel or James can if desired move it elsewhere or keep it alive. I found this site, fell in love, read every thread of the forum, all books except one; now up to date, view the last posts and go from there. "Seek and you will find ..." all others wait for the welfare truck. New yes, but retired and able to put the time in, and I do. Shalom
Offline Daniel  
#21 Posted : Friday, February 4, 2011 4:04:35 AM(UTC)
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Joined: 10/24/2010(UTC)
Posts: 694
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tagim wrote:
I am 76 and uncircumcised. After much research, abundant help from members at large, I have made my decision. I see the surgeon Monday. Alas, he must first consult with me. I think I should bring my K-bar to the consultation.



From one Former Marine to another: "Oooh-Rahh!"

The only thing better that having the surgeon perform the operation with a K-Bar would be doing it yourself, with a K-Bar!

For all you slimey-civilians following along at home, a K-Bar is a Marine combat knife.

At age 76, you must be looking forward to beginning your ministry soon. (Moshe started at age 80!)

Carry on!
Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
Offline tagim  
#22 Posted : Friday, February 4, 2011 7:58:25 AM(UTC)
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Well, Rides, maybe. On second thought I might consult with James.
Offline Richard  
#23 Posted : Saturday, February 5, 2011 3:02:13 PM(UTC)
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tagim wrote:
As I mentioned earlier, this forum is my first venture ever engaging in posting in a forum, and now the second time a controversial nature. The other one was circumcision. Well, I must fess up. I am 76 and uncircumcised. After much research, abundant help from members at large, I have made my decision. I see the surgeon Monday.


Good for you, brother! As a former Marine myself, I applaud your courage and strength of commitment to Yahuwah.

tagim wrote:
I left that environment and mindset of evil many years ago, but the anguish and hurt I have caused lives still within me daily. I have not been able to feel “clean...”


I can identify with you on that, Bill, more than anyone else reading this might know. That is why Yahuwah's promises of mercy are so precious to me.

Thank you for your in depth personal postings, man. I appreciate you.

Richard
Offline tagim  
#24 Posted : Sunday, February 6, 2011 6:15:53 AM(UTC)
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If you are new to this thread, to understand its message, you must read it from the top, Feb. 1. James (moderator) did bifurcate it from another thread to start it here with its own title. It is controversial, but worth your time.

The matter is intended to reach neophytes and intermediaries in Torah and to give them the opportunity to grasp what is so desperately needed in life, a firm foundation in Torah.

For placing TORAH CLASS here I received much warranted criticism as can be viewed in the above posts. However, I did and still do feel so strongly in my opinions stated, that YOU GO TO TORAH CLASS (neophytes and up) where you will get that needed foundation. Some here, I perceive, utilize this board as a chess game, most to give of their knowledge, still others to gain knowledge. TorahClass.com is the place to gain Torah knowledge. Whatever your purpose here, if you take the classes there (free, on line), you will be able to come back and do battle with the Giants, as did David, also to give more to those in need.
Offline FredSnell  
#25 Posted : Monday, February 7, 2011 1:38:55 AM(UTC)
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Thank you, Tagim. I liked how you phrased that, "do battle," for I and my wife were long into YY without any foundation other than our Sunday school classes as children. We are more than appreciative to all here, and have read the majority of all the post. But, for the both of us, we are completely entralled in the Torah Class. We just started and got to lesson 10 in Genesis and I can't remember how many times we did a double take at this mans wisdom. I put his knowledge on the top shelf with maybe a few things lacking. That aside, it's been wonderful and I can't thank those that directed me there, enough. Thank you all for what you have provided us.
Offline tagim  
#26 Posted : Monday, February 7, 2011 2:29:45 AM(UTC)
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EncounterHim, I told you you would love it. I guaranteed it. These GIANTS here are great people and will protect you always, even while being critical. Remember, it will be your biggest pleasure when you have the good knowledge they are so very eager to impart to you and anyone else on this forum. It is obvious they have lived with it for a very long, long time. It is all you can hope for to know what they know and to then, as they do, give.

I am happy for you and your wife for taking my advise by attending these classes. Keep posting here on your evaluation and progress. You and your wife will love being here in this forum, I GUARANTEE IT. In my searching, I have found no better grouping of humans gathered in one place, with Yada and Ken Power sitting as Chief Priests sitting right at the Tabernacle door. Welcome!
Offline Richard  
#27 Posted : Monday, February 7, 2011 12:38:27 PM(UTC)
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Bill,

I hope your surgery was a success and that you are not in unbearable pain. It causes me to squirm just thinking about you, brother.

I am going to suggest to my wifey unit that we begin the Torah classes together. It can't hurt, especially since we already know to keep our ears sensitive to that which is not Torah. Thanks for the link!

Richard
Offline tagim  
#28 Posted : Monday, February 7, 2011 2:44:26 PM(UTC)
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Thank you for your concern, Richard. Today was that consult day; you know two billings. I am to be called for the main event on their first available opening.

Perfect place for the not so ambulatory; pc replaces the tv screen. It is a good show.

Link still appears to be a problem.
Offline FredSnell  
#29 Posted : Tuesday, February 8, 2011 3:03:43 AM(UTC)
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To the members here: My wife and I have thoroughly enjoyed all the transmissions btw the members here and I know on many occasions, we found out things on the comment board that we never ever thought of before a person here backed it up by scripture, and made us go on journeys in scripture we would never have thought of until it was mentioned here. As for our own personal journey in scripture, we are but babes, altough in our 50's, I feel like I've already been left behind. I sure some will know exactly what I mean with that?

As far as Torah Class goes, we can't get enough of it. I am totally emersed and fill like we will soon have the fountains of waters spilling onto us in knowledge. The both of us last night were sitting and listening, and I can't really put into words as eloquently as tagim, but I must add, this is bebeficial and healing for us.
We were so engulfed in YY that we weren't quite sure what it all meant, until now. I think the author of YY should look up this man and thank him. And the reason is bc, like Tagim mentioned, it is a good foundation before reading YY.

Once again, thank you all for your love and support. For I know that it's each of your desires just as its our Fathers, that not a one should perish. And I know by reading all you guys and gals thoughts, you are on the exact same page as YHWH.

Tagim, after reading your few post, I'm sure with your writing skills there's a great book in your story. Peace brothers and sisters, and I'll deffinately keep you all updated on our growth. Thanks again to all!!!
Offline Daniel  
#30 Posted : Tuesday, February 8, 2011 5:40:29 AM(UTC)
Daniel
Joined: 10/24/2010(UTC)
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tagim wrote:
Thank you for your concern, Richard. Today was that consult day; you know two billings. I am to be called for the main event on their first available opening.


So you have elected to not go the DIY route with the sharpened K-bar...
Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
Offline tagim  
#31 Posted : Tuesday, February 8, 2011 11:25:53 AM(UTC)
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Thank you for your kind words, encounterHim. I am happy you are enjoying the classes. As for future books, "...there is nothing new under the sun." There is enough to last my lifetime in The Word.

And, Dan, at my age, my wife does not trust my shaking hands enough to unbutton her. My date is February 28. I must still see the general physician again, fast, have en EKG and thereafter an opinion by him that I am able to be gassed for the procedure. I told the cutting man I would prefer the needle and to watch him. He told me that has not been his experience and he forbids/declines that option. I laughed, but the option is not mine. Big mistake on my part trusting him; the Moyle and/or the K-bar is preferable as I now see it. That would be my advice from now on. Looking forward ...
Offline Matthew  
#32 Posted : Wednesday, February 9, 2011 2:42:07 PM(UTC)
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tagim wrote:
I told the cutting man I would prefer the needle...


Been there, done that. Most painful injection I've ever had, it really stung.

Have fun though.
Offline Sunny  
#33 Posted : Sunday, February 13, 2011 7:17:14 AM(UTC)
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James, wasn't sure where to put this, but I'm listening to Torah Class and wanted to post the teacher's comments regarding comparison of the Dead Sea Scrolls to modern translations. Was hoping to get some feedback on this. See below quote from transcript of one of the classes. He goes on to comment more but it's a lot to post.




Redacted is a word you’re going to hear with some regularity in Torah Class; it simply means, “edited”. And, I know that it bothers some Christians to be told that you are NOT reading the original scriptures in your Bibles. These writings went through many revisions over the ages. But, I also want to assure you, that these revisions……particularly to the OT……were very minor. We know this is the case because with the finding of the Dead Sea Scrolls, which were written down by the Essenes over a period time stretching from around 50 BC to just before 70 AD, we have been able to compare the words of the Hebrew OT scriptures found among those Dead Sea documents with what we have been using for centuries, and they are virtually identical. Only some minor spelling variations were found, and perhaps a phrase here and there was added or dropped or modified……usually by adding, deleting, or changing a person’s name or a city……and THAT because that name or city more recently went by a different name or title due to language evolution; none of these minor variations had any effect on the meaning.
Offline James  
#34 Posted : Sunday, February 13, 2011 10:58:54 AM(UTC)
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Sunny wrote:
But, I also want to assure you, that these revisions……particularly to the OT……were very minor.


Well everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I suppose what one considers minor, is an opinion. That said I would disagree with this statement entirely. Many if not most of the "revisions", I call them men usurping God's authority and copy editing His Word, are far from minor.

Further more if they are so minor, why were they made, and why do we not correct them?

Is replacing Yah's name with the adversaries title, LORD, minor, well I guess it is a matter of opinion, but given the fact that he gave us His name an average of seven times per page, I would say that it is not minor to him.

Further more, the corruption of the text is not just in word changes, that we now know where made, it was in the vocalization added by religious rabbis. These vocalizations change, minimize and alter the meaning of many words, and are used as a way to control understanding.

Further, further more our translation serve to butcher the text even more.

So to claim that the modern English translations are even close to 100% faithful to the text from which they were derived, is just patently false.

But don't take my word for, buy a copy of the DSS bible, one which shows the variations in it, and see what the changes made were.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline Sunny  
#35 Posted : Sunday, February 13, 2011 2:32:16 PM(UTC)
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Hi James,

In addition, in an earlier lesson, the instructor of the Torah Class emphasizes the for every 1 Hebrew word it can take several English words to translate. In reading Yada's translations, that being said, our translations would be much larger and expansive than they are. How can they not be major "revisions"?

However, I am enjoying the Torah Class lessons. It's really interesting learning more about Hebrew Idioms and culture of that day.. None of which I was exposed to in Christianity.

Thanks
Offline Daniel  
#36 Posted : Monday, February 14, 2011 9:15:37 AM(UTC)
Daniel
Joined: 10/24/2010(UTC)
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James wrote:
So to claim that the modern English translations are even close to 100% faithful to the text from which they were derived, is just patently false.


I don't think that is what is being said by Mr. Torahclass. I took his meaning to be that the text of the Tannakh (what you Christians call the Old Testament) matches up quite nicely between the DSS and [Codex Lenningradus], with minor variations. (In Sunny's quotation, he doesn't actually cite CL, but I think that is what he would be talking about.)

He is also not going into how the MT really tweaked the text, hard, to make it look like Our Guy was not MessiYah. To be fair, the MT is a (written) vocalization, not a 'text' to be used in terms of a like-for-like 'textual comparison'.

Brother James is quite right in pointing out that the English translations of the Apostolic Writings are no where near as reliably transmitted as the text of the Tannakh. It is painfully obvious that the "New Testament" translators are trying to make is look as though Our Guy wasn't Jewish.

James wrote:
But don't take my word for, buy a copy of the DSS bible, one which shows the variations in it, and see what the changes made were.


To be fair, my copy of DSS has a 'translator's notes' page at the very front that says words to the effect of: 'out of respect for the Jewish tradition, when YHWH is found in the text it is rendered as LORD... '

Mr. Torahclass may be oversimplifying a little too much, but I think he is trying to make the point that the textual transmission of the Tannakh is much more reliable than that of the Apostolic Writings.

To his credit, at least he is not telling Jews that they must follow "Jesus" and join him after "Sunday worship services for the bar-b-que (pork) picnic". Mr. Torahclass is trying to 'get it right' and is light-years closer to the way things were back in the first century than 99.999% of all christians. He may not express things just the way a Seventh-Degree YY'er would, but at least he is trying! (I still plan to visit him, later this year.)

Let's not be the 'army' that shoots its own 'wounded'!
Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
Offline James  
#37 Posted : Monday, February 14, 2011 10:49:17 AM(UTC)
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Daniel, to be fair I was only reacting to the segment Sunny posted, and have not had time to review much of anything from the Torahclass site, so I might not have the whole story.

wrote:
Redacted is a word you’re going to hear with some regularity in Torah Class; it simply means, “edited”. And, I know that it bothers some Christians to be told that you are NOT reading the original scriptures in your Bibles. These writings went through many revisions over the ages. But, I also want to assure you, that these revisions……particularly to the OT……were very minor.


This is the particular line that I was reacting too when I said what I said. To me, and again this is only reading this statement I don't know what else he has said, this is saying that while there was editing done, it is not something to worry about, which is something I would completely disagree with.

Daniel wrote:
To his credit, at least he is not telling Jews that they must follow "Jesus" and join him after "Sunday worship services for the bar-b-que (pork) picnic". Mr. Torahclass is trying to 'get it right' and is light-years closer to the way things were back in the first century than 99.999% of all christians. He may not express things just the way a Seventh-Degree YY'er would, but at least he is trying! (I still plan to visit him, later this year.)


I didn't not mean to come across as attacking him, I applaud anyone who is at least seeking. I was only reacting to the statement that the edits were minor, which again I disagree with entirely.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline Daniel  
#38 Posted : Monday, February 14, 2011 11:40:49 AM(UTC)
Daniel
Joined: 10/24/2010(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: Florida

James wrote:
Mr. Torahclass wrote:
Redacted is a word you’re going to hear with some regularity in Torah Class; it simply means, “edited”.

[snip-snip]
I didn't not mean to come across as attacking him, I applaud anyone who is at least seeking. I was only reacting to the statement that the edits were minor, which again I disagree with entirely.


Hey, at least he is saying that the text has been 'redacted'!

Most of christendom believes that the 'bible' was written in 17th century English, and accuse you of being in a cult for even suggesting that there is any variation among the texts.

BTW: It really makes me bat-excrement-crazy when I hear people praying in "King James English"!

Mr. Torahclass is taking (and encouraging others to take) 'baby steps'. More is the pity!
Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
Offline tagim  
#39 Posted : Thursday, March 10, 2011 1:00:34 PM(UTC)
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I thought it might be time again to weigh in on TorahClass.com and to poll those who have visited the site and parttook of the opportunity. Would you please post of your experience and recommendation>
Offline Daniel  
#40 Posted : Friday, March 11, 2011 4:23:05 AM(UTC)
Daniel
Joined: 10/24/2010(UTC)
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Location: Florida

tagim wrote:
I thought it might be time again to weigh in on TorahClass.com and to poll those who have visited the site and parttook of the opportunity. Would you please post of your experience and recommendation>


Bill, I'd like to hear what you think, sir!
Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
Offline tagim  
#41 Posted : Friday, March 11, 2011 6:05:26 AM(UTC)
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Dan, I am not sure of what you are asking. If it is an evaluation of TorahClass.com, I have not changed my opinion of all I said previously. I think it is a necessity to learning the Torah. I have been active on the site every day for months now. As the class meets once a week, where I am now on the site, just finished with Deut., it has taken the class five years of once a week to get that far. So you can compute the numbers of hours a day for the few months I have been listening and reading the classes to get where they have taken five years.

Why I reposted here is with the hope of getting a sampling of how many forum members have, in my opinion, taken advantage of this wonderful series and to solicit their opinions. I have taken some well deserved flack from a few well respected forum leaders upon opening this thread. Albeit, I still saw TorahClass.com as being a vital tool to providing a complete foundation in Torah, surely lacking in all exiting Christian services and finding their way here.
But you have been to the site and have spoken of it; surely, your evaluation is at least as good as mine. What do you think?

And for all those that have not yet gone to the site, TorahClass.com, I sincerely advise going there. For those that have gone and listened/read the lectures on Torah, sign in and give your evaluation. You may be able to pass the benefit to another member. After all, isn't that why we are here, to help one another?
Offline Richard  
#42 Posted : Friday, March 11, 2011 1:25:20 PM(UTC)
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Hi, Bill.

My wife and I watched the initial video and we enjoyed it (with reservations). However, I must take my stand with Noach and Walt regarding the site's "Statement of Faith." Also, whenever I see or hear someone referring to our Father as "G-d", "the LORD", "YVHV", "Jehovah", etc., I just close my eyes, shake me head, and get away from them as fast as I can. As for those who cannot deal with the truth when it is presented as absolute fact, if they are truly seeking Yahuwah then they will feel His inner urging to return over and over again until their understanding is finally opened. I know, because that is what happened to me, especially as regards Saul of Tarsus. So if someone insists that they are a teacher of Yahuwah's Torah, yet they don't know enough to proclaim and use His Name, I must conclude that they do not know Him very well at all.

Rather than following any more of the lessons at TorahClass.com, my wife and I have decided to focus our studies on Yada's latest version of Yada Yahweh. If time remains and Yahuwah wills that we live, we shall dive into Ken's The Owner's Manual. I have already read much of these on my own, but now my wife has "gotten the bug" and I am excited about accompanying her from the beginning. That leaves no time at all, in my judgment, for anyone even remotely leaning towards religion.

Daniel, I love you, man, but I cannot accept the "celebrate the differences" line. It sounds spineless and mewly (is that a word?). Now, I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are neither of those, so it puzzles me that you fly that banner. I mean, it just sounds so ... liberal, like President Carter's naive question, "Can't we all just get along?" Hell, no! We stand with Yahuwah! Period. He Himself commanded us not to tolerate false teachers, idolaters, etc. I personally do not believe He accepts grey; to our Father, things are black or white, right or wrong, hot or cold. Did He not say exactly that? "Because you are neither hot nor cold, I will spew you out of My mouth." Where is the "celebrate the differences" in that, Daniel? I wouldn't go on like this were I not so stunned that you, of all people, would push that stand.

Anyway, may each of us have a peaceful Sabbath with Yahushua and Dad.

Richard
Offline Daniel  
#43 Posted : Saturday, March 12, 2011 6:30:50 AM(UTC)
Daniel
Joined: 10/24/2010(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: Florida

flintface wrote:
Daniel, I love you, man, but I cannot accept the "celebrate the differences" line.


Brother Richard, that is NOT what I said!

It was "Celebrate-the-similarities-Discuss-the-differences".

Big difference, no?

;-)

flintface wrote:
I mean, it just sounds so ... liberal, like President Carter's naive question, "Can't we all just get along?"


It was Rodney King who said that... (I know, I know, they are easy to mix up...)

UserPostedImage UserPostedImage

Carter, on right, does not have a mustache.


flintface wrote:
Hell, no! We stand with Yahuwah!
[snip-snip]
Where is the "celebrate the differences" in that, Daniel? I wouldn't go on like this were I not so stunned that you, of all people, would push that stand.


Ummm...., actually...., I didn't!

Like I have said before, Mr. Torahclass is on the right track, but isn't quite where we all are, YET!

Perhaps you should contact him and, dare I say, "discuss the differences"?

(I think I gotcha' there, Jarhead!)



Shabbot Shalom!
Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
Offline Richard  
#44 Posted : Saturday, March 12, 2011 11:02:53 AM(UTC)
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You are absolutely right, Daniel, it was Rodney King who said that! Now why was I laboring under the mistaken idea that it was the evil Mr. Carter, that devil who always supports our nation's enemies? Whatever. I stand corrected.

And I was wrong again about your tag line, too. I guess my impression was that you're saying to embrace the differences, i.e., be tolerant. So my take on what you said is not what you actually said. There is a lesson in there somewhere.

Anyway, thanks for pointing out to me where I was wrong. No, wait, that's not redneck macho enough. Let's go with, "Hey! You wanna step outside and DISCUSS it?" :D

Peace to you all on this Sabbath day.

Richard

Offline Daniel  
#45 Posted : Saturday, March 12, 2011 2:07:29 PM(UTC)
Daniel
Joined: 10/24/2010(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: Florida

flintface wrote:
You are absolutely right, Daniel, it was Rodney King who said that! Now why was I laboring under the mistaken idea that it was the evil Mr. Carter, that devil who always supports our nation's enemies?


Were the pictures I linked to helpful in sorting those two out?

;-)
Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
Offline lassie1865  
#46 Posted : Saturday, March 12, 2011 4:54:02 PM(UTC)
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As for the Torah Class, I have been reading it; I am only near the end of Exodus right now. I am learning a lot, and it is very easy-to-read. I think it is good for my friends to read it, because I think they will understand it; for some reason even my college-educated friends seem to find Yada's writing extremely difficult to understand, and therefore, they don't read much of it. I see the Torah Class folks discuss the fact that Yahowah's name has sadly been edited out of the translations, but yet they continue to use the term "Lord", etc. I will be sending them some of my (our) thoughts about this.

Has Yada posted any updates to YY yet? On the YY website, I do not see anything dated later than May, 2010.

By the way, anyone know if the barley is aviv? Is it possible that Passover will begin on March 20?

I was also wondering if Yahowah had warned the Japanese of this earthquake beforehand?

Shalom
Offline tagim  
#47 Posted : Saturday, March 12, 2011 7:07:19 PM(UTC)
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Lassie, nearing the end of Exodus means you have completed 50 lessons of Genesis and nearly 40 of Exodus. I know that is a long time to listen or read. Understand that he is lecturing a group of Christians and does not want to scare them off in short order. I am sure as a Hebrew/Christian (however that can be construed) with his Saturday hopeful Torah observant congregation he uses Yah and His Son's proper names, as he so states. Even so, the criticisms expressed by Walt, Noach and Flintface, should not be ignored and at the least kept in the backs of your minds, as the Torah Class statement of faith has at least one strike against it, insofar as this forum would be concerned. Albeit, I have visited numerous web sites recommended by members here that have mispronounced our Savior's name. I forgive it provided the information gleaned has helped me in understanding the Torah. In all probability, at the time I finish the OT on their site, I will abandon it and not move on to the NT series as I have had enough of that for too many years, and certainly I could not take more of glorification of Mr. Paul, as I suspect necessarily must follow. But, yes, I do find it easier to learn Torah there than YY, although I wish that were not the case. I truly feel the lecturer would love to knock all of Christianity over the head (make them tabla rosa) and start them all over again in their belief in the Father and His Son. But being organized and part of the big myth, he cannot.

As much as my rants of the merits of TorahClass.com have been here over this last month or so, they should never be interpreted as it being a site superior to YY. It is just to fill a tiny crack, one piece of that 10,000 piece puzzle Yada and Ken have put together. I agree with everything that I understand that they have said, it is just that some of it I still do not fully understand. And like they said, "check it out." Still, some members here have said they do not agree with some of C and K.

Unfortunately, as I noted earlier on this thread, I have lost all my family, friends and acquaintances by being bold, or stupid, to directly suggest to them they should follow my lead, come here and abandon Babylon. Well, now there is an active movement afloat to rescue me from "this cult." And unfortunately or fortunately the case, the love, truth and friendship given here is stronger than can be received from one's own blood.

I only wish, and pray, that we here could grow as fast and as furious as the deceivers.
Offline FredSnell  
#48 Posted : Monday, March 14, 2011 3:26:57 AM(UTC)
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I must say, "Im loving every second." Torah Class is just what this ole boy needed. And the reason for it is because when my dad died and we got him into the ground, I went driving by myself through the countryside. Wondering not so much as to why my brother hadn't attended the service, bc I knew his Jehovah Witness religion wouldn't be condusive with a Church of Christ setting. But just wondering what his feelings were, I called him. We were talking about our father and our upbringing. Now my brothers been in a wheelchair since I was in the 6th grade. He was in that hippie generation. We were all christians that attended our local C of C service and most still do. My brother back in the 60's decided he'd had enough and started rebelling in the worst way. Well to make a long story short. He was using drugs like LSD and selling also. When one night he'd ingested LSD and had a bad trip, my mom knew he was going nuts couldn't control him, herself. Well anyhow, that night my mom put him in a wheelchair bc he tried killing her with a buthchers knife when all us kids were sleeping. We were very lucky that she had my dads pistol and I'll leave it there. That's just to let you guys know a little of where i'm coming from in this letter. Sorry I'm not eloquent with my words. But this is how I came across YY. I pulled over on the dirt road and gave my brother that call. Now from the time he was put into that chair, it became a job for me to take care of my now crippled brother. My parents did all they could for him. My poor mom was just racked at what she HAD to do just to save the rest of us and not a one of us ever questioned her actions, for they were right in our minds. Well we all have a story, and I know mine was so I'd be there that day on that country road. I always have had an close relationship with my brother and his being in the chair hadn't changed that. What changed it was when he became a JW. Use to our perception of God from a C of C veiw, I felt he was being deceived. Well we just drifted in and out of our relationship. After growing up and marrying, my wife and I actually tried the Kingdom Hall a couple of times in efforts to mend some of our ways. Well it didn't take hold with us, so he and I drifted further apart. The phone call after our dads death(some 30yrs later) is where i'm going with this. I was on the verge of crying when I told him i couldn't anylonger feel like there was a god for me. I felt I'd never had any feeling whatsoever of His presence in my life and that if He does exist, Bubba, pray I find Him and He lets me know. Well of course my brother told me what he felt was Fathers name. I just couldn't feel it myself. I was looking for something physical i guess. Well weeks went by and I just shelved that conversation with my brother and continued in life as usual. Well after some time, I finally keyed into my computer, What's His name, or something like that. With no effort of mine, YY came across my screen. Now I'm a dummy when it comes to understanding written words. I sometime must re-read several times for it to soak in. For the life of me, I couldn't get enough of YY. Everyone else I introduced to it, and most are college grads, just couldn't understand it. For the life of me I couldn't understand how they couldn't grasp this mans words and a dummy like me could. My wife whom's worked for me and has been around me for 30yrs was getting freightened. She seriously thought I was about to put on sandels and start a walk to Jerusalem. This stuff that college grads couldn't grasp, was putting me into a world others knew nothing of. Couldn't get enough of it. So slowly, my wife started reading over my shoulder out of couriousity, and probably mose concern for me than anythng else. Well thank Yahuah she did. We both re-read the entire book along with Kens, FH and alot of his, TOM. And then it happened for the both of us. Tagim, can't thank you sir enough. Torah class is bringing it all together for us. While I can't for the life of me grasp howcome some can't seem to understand Yadas words, I can only thank My Father YHWH for bringing me to the truth. My brothers prayer must have been heard. He might be sorry though, I've loaded his e-mails with all the deceptions, and guess what? No re-ply!
Well that's a little of who and what I am and how I came to understanding. Thank you brothers and sisters. I feell I will be searching for all my life, but with this foundation I'm now building on, thanks to tagim, I can finally settle down some. Thank you again! And one day, if I can bring my brother who's now is now turning 60, out of religion, he might be my brother in Yahushua. For now I believe he's locked into it and will not hear another.
Offline Daniel  
#49 Posted : Monday, March 14, 2011 6:44:12 AM(UTC)
Daniel
Joined: 10/24/2010(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: Florida

The JW's have one thing right: That His Name is not "God" or "Lord"
(They are using the wrong vowel points and the "soft J", to get "Jehovah", but we can come back to that later...)
The Seventh Day Adventists have one thing right: Keeping the Sabbath
The Unitarians have one thing (sort of) right: The oneness of God
(as compared to the Trinitarian Polytheism of christianity)

This is not an endorsement of any of those sects (Walt, Noach and Richard!), rather, I am highlighting a point of contact that can be used to start the conversation with each type of person.

The problem is that most evangelicals think that they have everything right!

I had a vision about my first day in heaven:

Kefa (Peter) is showing me around the place, pointing out where the Baptists congregate, the Presbyterian area, etc. We can hear the Assembly's of God crowd from a long way off...

Then he turns to me and says, "We are about to go up this hill, above the cloud line, to see the Church of Christ'ers. You have to be really quiet."

I ask, "Why? So as not to disturb their worship?"

Kefa replies, "Oh, no, nothing like that. You have to be quiet because they think they are the only ones here!"
Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
Offline Mike  
#50 Posted : Monday, March 14, 2011 12:45:39 PM(UTC)
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Shalom Lassie1865,

According to Paleotimes and Karaite-Korner, the barley is not abib in Israel.

Jerusalem, Israel
No Aviv Barley, New Moon of Thirteenth Month Sighted
On March 6, 2011 the barley we examined in the Judean Desert and Jordan Valley was nowhere near Aviv. These are locations the barley is known from previous years to ripen earliest. The barley was mostly in the vegetative state but we also found large amounts of barley that had just flowered (cotton-stage). This is consistent with our findings on Friday March 4, 2011 in the northern Negev. The lack of Aviv barley means the new moon on April 4, 2011 will be the beginning of the Hebrew year and Chag HaMatzot (Feast of Unleavened Bread) will begin at sunset on April 18, 2011.
The new moon of the Thirteenth Biblical Month was sighted on March 6, 2011. It was first sighted from Kefar Eldad by Bruce Brill at 6:03pm and then from Jerusalem at 6:11pm by David Cachicas followed shortly thereafter by Willie Ondricek, Keith Johnson, Nehemia Gordon, Devorah Gordon, Daniella Cachicas, Yoel Halevi, Pat Skewes, and Miri Burgin.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/karaite_korner_news/
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