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Offline martyjswizzle  
#1 Posted : Monday, July 5, 2010 5:11:26 PM(UTC)
Joined: 7/4/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3
Location: Texas

This is my first post and first topic. I hope I wasn't premature in my thinking by posting this research topic here. I am very interested in study of this subject and have been since Ron Wyatt supposedly discovered the Red Sea Crossing and since I saw a special on TV on the topic of discovering the true Exodus route.
Now, since my research began I have come across many websites and bible maps that supposedly route out the biblical exodus of the Israelites from Egypt. Many are different and there are many questions and guesses. Some people believe that the Red Sea crossing happened across the Gulf of Suez, some believe the Sea of Reeds and others the Gulf of Aqaba.
I would just like to begin with the beginning, obviously.
Exodus 12:33-41 "The Egyptians urged the people, to send them out of the land in haste, for they said, "We will all be dead." So the people took their dough before it was leavened, with their kneading bowls bound up in the clothes on their shoulders. Now the sons of Israel had done according to the word of Moses, for they had requested from the Egyptians articles of silver and articles of gold, and clothing; and the LORD had given the people favor in the sight of the Egyptians, so that they let them have their request. Thus they plundered the Egyptians. Now the sons of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand men on foot, aside from children. A mixed multitude also went up with them, along with flocks and herds, a very large number of livestock. They baked the dough which they had brought out of Egypt into cakes of unleavened bread. For it had not become leavened, since they were driven out of Egypt and could not delay, nor had they prepared any provisions for themselves. Now the time that the sons of Israel lived in Egypt was four hundred and thirty years. And at the end of four hundred and thirty years, to the very day, all the hosts of the LORD went out from the land of Egypt (NASB, http://www.biblegateway....2:33-41&version=NASB)."

I have been using the most strict word-for-word bible translations and a few others with paraphrasing and better or different grammer to help get a better or different perspective on things. I even use all the concordances and biblical dictionaries that I can find to help me.
So, we have the Israelites leaving Rameses, obviously this is where they lived, and they traveled towards Succoth. It also says that a mixed multitude "went up" with them. Does "went up" mean that they traveled northward towards Succoth? Now, from this reading I am assuming that when they went to Succoth, they were "out of Egypt, since they were driven out of Egypt and could not delay?" Where is our starting point (Rameses) exactly? Where is Succoth, in Egypt or out of Egypt?
The Encylopedia Britannica says that Ramses was built by the Hebrews (Israelites) and "This conclusion, however, is at variance with most of the biblical and archaeological evidence. The storage cities Pitḥom and Rameses, built for the pharaoh by the Hebrews, were located in the northeastern part of the Egyptian delta, not far from Goshen, the district in which the Hebrews lived (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/490629/Rameses)."
By asking questions and having a discussion with as many people as possible it seems to be the best way of figuring this out.
Thank you.

Offline In His Name  
#2 Posted : Monday, July 5, 2010 6:04:35 PM(UTC)
In His Name
Joined: 9/7/2008(UTC)
Posts: 550

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Hey Marty welcome to the forum!

The EXODUS CONSPIRACY website contains a blog that delves into some of your questions. Perhaps you can find some answers or direction there. It has been awhile since I read there but I remember them talking about the grain bins at Ramses.

I for one am anxiously waiting for the movie release.

Hope you find some info here.
“Because he clings to Me, is joined to Me, loves and delights in Me, desires Me, therefore I will deliver him, carry him safely away, cause him to escape from harm making him inaccessible and strong, and delivering him safely to heaven, because he has known, observed, cared for, recognized, instructed and advised others to use, designated, acknowledged, discerned, answered in, My name, authority, character, report, mark, and nature." Psalm 91:14
Offline Matthew  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, July 6, 2010 1:43:29 AM(UTC)
Joined: 10/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,191
Location: São Paulo, Brazil

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martyjswizzle wrote:
Where is our starting point (Rameses) exactly? Where is Succoth, in Egypt or out of Egypt?

Welcome Marty to the forum!

Judging from my quick internet search I think "Ramases" was located in the Avaris, Sharkiya, Tell el-Dab'a region. And nearly all references to the location of the place the Jews gathered together before tripping out of Egypt was Saqqara.

Avaris, seems to be the name of an ancient city within the Sharqia governorate region.
Sharkiya, or Sharqia, seems to be a governorate region of current Egypt.
Tell el-Dab'a seems to be one of numerous archaelogical sites that all seem to point to it being a very busy area in ancient Egypt, especially that of trade and possibly the location of many of the Jews during the time of Moses.

David Rohl is a popular author in regards to all things Ancient Egypt and the Jews. I have a book of his but must admit I haven't read it yet even though it looks really good.

And the beach of Nuweiba in the Gulf of Aqaba is definitely the location of the Red Sea Crossing.
Offline J&M  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, July 6, 2010 2:46:53 AM(UTC)
Joined: 9/5/2007(UTC)
Posts: 234
Location: Eretz Ha'Quodesh



The book that Matthew is referring to is :-

A Test of Time (The Bible from Myth to History) David Rohl

Easily picked up cheaply 2nd hand eg. amazon

It's a very good read:)
Offline Matthew  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, July 6, 2010 5:09:50 AM(UTC)
Joined: 10/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,191
Location: São Paulo, Brazil

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That's the book, bought mine from Amazon secondhand quite cheap! David Rohl seems to have a number of interesting books on the subject.
Offline Garry  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, July 28, 2010 2:52:34 AM(UTC)
Joined: 7/28/2010(UTC)
Posts: 4


I appreciated the article, and it was deep water that the Egyptian army drowned in! "BUT" at P-hahiroth, the third stop, they are back where they stared from! See the new book out, THE QUEST FOR THE LOCATION OF THE RED SEA CROSSING, (Nov. 2009, Amazon.com, ISBN-13: 978-1597552455) At the second stop (Etham) after leaving Goshen they are told in Numbers 33:7, that Israel “turned again unto Pi-hahiroth” and in Exodus 14:2, “they turn and encamp before Pi-hahiroth..." Both “turn” and “turned again” are the same word in the Hebrew. Strong's Concordance #7725, gives for its first definition “to return, turn back.” Israel is going back to a place they had already been! This is done to make Pharaoh think “They are entangled in the land, the wilderness hath shut them in.” There are only two possibilities of where they could have gone back to. It would not be Etham as this is where they receive this order. This leaves Succoth or Goshen, and because we already have the name of Succoth it would appear to leave only the land of Goshen (Rameses can be either a city or a land). This would put Israel back where they started form! But the other routes all have Israel a couple of days journey away from where they started when they cross the sea/yamsuf. In Pharaoh's mind all Israel had done was go in a big circle and "turned again" unto a place they had been.

In Numbers 33: there are fifty place names recorded where Israel goes to or passes by, but only at this place are we told they turn again. It is of course obvious that they made many turns from the time they left Egypt till they crossed the Jordan, no one would deny this. They are doing more than just making a simple turn, it is a turn to be sure, but one that brings them back to where they had been.

The Jewish sacred books all have them returning.

Targum Onkelos. Exodus 14:2 “Speak with the
sons of Israel that they return and encamp before Pum
Hiratha” (Numbers 33:7, “[R]eturned upon

Targum Pseudo-Jonathan. Exodus 14:2. “Speak to
the sons of Israel, that they return back, and encamp
before the Mouths of Hiratha...” (Numbers 33:7
“[R]eturned unto Pumey Hiratha”)

Targum Pseudo-Jonathan Jerusalem. Exodus 14:2
“And they shall return and encamp before the
caravansaries of Hiratha” (Numbers 33:7, “[T]hey
returned to the caravansaries of Hiratha”)

Torah. Exodus 14:2, “[T]hey turn back and
encamp before Pi-hahiroth.” (Numbers 33:7 “[T]urned
back unto Pihahiroth”).
Offline danshelper  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, July 28, 2010 2:20:41 PM(UTC)
Joined: 11/30/2009(UTC)
Posts: 196
Location: Gettysburg, PA

Do the Scriptures say how many days the Israelites were going round about before the Egyptians caught up with them at the "body of water"? What was the interval of time between the exodus and the sea crossing?
Offline Rohn  
#8 Posted : Saturday, August 14, 2010 5:53:36 AM(UTC)
Joined: 5/1/2009(UTC)
Posts: 45
Location: Goodyear AZ

Marty Welcome to the forum
When you watch the film put out by Ron's group, which I still find amazing and after it is pointed out how obvious it all looks. I think they do a good job of laying out the story. I patched it together into a DVD.
You have Moses leaving Rameses, which is generally identified with modern Qantir. Then he puts the people together at Succouth, a main launching area for Egyptian military at that time. Moses would have known this being brought up in the Royal family. The beach at Nuweiba fits the picture of a gathering place and in fact the Arabs named it as such, I think the full name means Crossing of the Multitude. The Pillars put up on both sides by King Solomon, with the inscription. something like I, Solomon erect this in memory of Moses and to honor Yahweh. The names are on the Pillar, one of the group gives the interpretation.
What really gets me is the locals know the whole story, generation to generation. It is obvious from the name of the mountain, Jabel al Lawz or Mountain of the Law. They knew the story that a multitude went to the Mountain of God. It was fortunate when Ron Wyatt did his initial work, Israel had possession of the Sinai. I actually don't see why they gave it back, I shouldn't get started on that subject, it requires a different posting.
The question is then why did it take so long to identify. Once it is pointed out, and the story is laid out it is (again) obvious. I Just hope that Ron Wyatt, even after his death 11yrs ago, that he gets the respect and professional acknowledgement from everyone.

To me this is a huge story, because when Jesus/Yahshua asks How many signs does an unbelieving generation need? My answer is just one, I can believe on my faith alone. When it comes to keeping the sheep, one sign and I can lead them home.

If anyone enjoys diving you should look at this http://www.earthillustra...a-%E2%80%93-desert-oasis
Offline Garry  
#9 Posted : Saturday, August 21, 2010 11:01:32 AM(UTC)
Joined: 7/28/2010(UTC)
Posts: 4

I believe some caution needs to be exercised here on these finds in Saudi Arabia. Mount Lawz is believed by some to be Mount Sinai, but there is a problem here with the petroglyphs or rock engravings that we need to consider. Some are saying these are from the 2nd century BC and therefore after the time of the Exodus. As to pictures of golden chariots wheel lying on the bottom of the sea, how do we know it was not the wheel of a ships helm or even a brass pulley that fell over board? (The picture has no ruler to indicate its size.) This picture was taken by Mr. Wyatt, the same man who claims to have found a sample of the literal, “blood of Christ!” But no one is allowed to do any independent research on this blood sample. This is also the same person who claims to have found the “Ark of the Covenant,” and said he “gave” it to the Israel government, but they deny this. He also claims to have found the stones of the Ten Commandments, and a very long list of Biblical artifacts
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#10 Posted : Saturday, August 21, 2010 12:17:35 PM(UTC)
Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,470
Location: England

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I have to admit Garry - my trust in Mr Wyatt is very thin too :) lol I can see the Ark location making sense though in a prophetic way - I can see the logic there... but I am not convinced in his work really.
Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Offline robacosta66  
#11 Posted : Sunday, December 19, 2010 6:03:51 AM(UTC)
Joined: 12/19/2010(UTC)
Posts: 2
Location: denver

Re Problems with Traditional Exodus Route

There is a very obvious problem with the traditional Exodus Route and location for Kadesh Barnea:
It was impossible for the Israelites to cross from the Negev to east of Edom and Moab without entering
the Land of Edom.
Take a look at any good map. The Wadi Yitm was the only route around the Gulf of Aqaba. The Wadi Yitm
was in Edom, 1 Kings 9:26. The Wadi Yitm was also a part of the King's Highway a trade route which linked Egypt with Asia.
The Wadi Yitm was perhaps the most important trade route of its time. Think of it as the Panama Canal of the Ancient world. Charging fees for its use was what made Edom...and later the Nabateans, rich. It was also heavily defended. Ancient Edomite fortresses can still be found today.
If you believe the bible is true, then the traditional site of Kadesh Barnea must be abandoned for many reasons.
But the most obvious one is geography. If your only route is through a land you are forbidden to enter you have a very
serious problem. The only real problem is that people put the theories of men ahead of the bible.


Offline Daniel  
#12 Posted : Monday, December 20, 2010 4:08:19 AM(UTC)
Joined: 10/24/2010(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: Florida

robacosta66 wrote:
There is a very obvious problem with the traditional Exodus Route and location for Kadesh Barnea:
It was impossible for the Israelites to cross from the Negev to east of Edom and Moab without entering
the Land of Edom.
Take a look at any good map. The Wadi Yitm was the only route around the Gulf of Aqaba.

This route is much more likely. This side of the grave, we may never know the answer, for sure. Having driven through the area, there are not too many routes that you could move hundreds of thousands of people along, even with the daily resupply missions. I doubt that the terrain has changed very much in the past 3,500 years.

What has changed is the border control infrastructure. We crossed from Elat down into Egypt to go on a scuba diving boat trip. There were seven security checkpoints each way. It took about an hour to cross from Israel to Egypt and a little longer to come back. No wonder Moshe took them across the sea: It was much quicker!

Regarding some of Mr. Ron Wyatt's claims: I think that even Dr. Henry Jones Jr. would find some of them a little far-fetched.
Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
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