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Offline Kelly and Shasta  
#1 Posted : Thursday, June 3, 2010 10:30:08 AM(UTC)
Kelly and Shasta
Joined: 3/29/2010(UTC)
Posts: 18
Location: Connecticut

We just wanted to take a moment to commend Yada. The Spirit of Truth came to us on Shabat; Feb. 13th, 2010 concerning Luke (the false witness) and Shaul. We burned all of his letters and Luke's accounts. Paul is undoubtedly the man of lawlessness- he is the great delusion sent to the churches, the perfect anti-christ that he himself prophesised about! He is the ravenous Benjamite wolf Yahshua talked about.

The weeds to grow up with the grain as the word of Yah had to grow up with the false teachings of Solomon and Paul. Everybody picks their side and everyone receives their mark. Paul and the doctrine of Grace vs. Moshe, Yahshua, the prophets, and the Law- you choose.

Shaul of Tarsus is the leader they "asked for" just like King Shaul. Both were Law breakers, both benjamites, both had a thorn in the flesh, King Shaul persecuted David and Shaul of Tarsus persecuted the one's the Kept the Law . If there is yeast it spoils the whole batch... the yeast of that Pharisee.

Questioning Paul refutes years of your own research in the other published works in YY yet you showed no pride and did what is right.

Last year, on Yom Kipur we also burned Shlomo (Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs) and Esther. The weeds were allowed to grow up with the grain, but need not be left there. Without the weeds, there would be no Church to distribute the "Biblos". This is the geat test YHWH promised:

If a prophet, or one that foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder for which he has spoken takes place, an he says, "let us follow other gods' (gods you have not known) 'and let us worship them," you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. YHWH is testing you to find out whether you love Him with all your heart and with all your soul. It is YHWH your Elohim you must follow and Him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey Him; serve Him and hold fast to Him. That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against YHWH who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; He has tried to turn you from the way YHWH your Elohim commended you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you." Deuteronomy 13:1-5

Purge Paul!!!
Offline Matthew  
#2 Posted : Friday, June 4, 2010 3:46:08 PM(UTC)
Matthew
Joined: 10/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,191
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Location: São Paulo, Brazil

Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 2 post(s)
I'm a bit confused as to why Solomon's books should be excluded? I thought his wisdom was God-given, as in a response to his prayer for it! Where exactly do his books fall out of line when it comes to being weighed up against the Torah?
Offline Kelly and Shasta  
#3 Posted : Friday, June 4, 2010 4:11:08 PM(UTC)
Kelly and Shasta
Joined: 3/29/2010(UTC)
Posts: 18
Location: Connecticut



Here is a start, but I'm sure there's plenty of additional evidence.

Is there anything else in scripture like his writing? Is there any other author like him? It's no coincidence that all the pagan kabalists hold him up as their model- the grand sorceror of their religion. His life is one of the greatest tragedys chronicled in the entire Bible. By the fruit we know the tree.

The weight of the gold that Shlomo received yearly was 666 talents, not including [other sources of revenue] 1Kings 10:14. . . Why leave out the rest, just to get to 666?

YHWH's final judgment on Shlomo for building temples to every pagan god:

YHWH became angry with Shlomo because his heart had turned away from YHWH the Elohim of Israel, who had appeared to him twice. Although He had forbidden Shlomo to follow other elohim, Shlomo did not keep YHWH's command. 1Kings 11:9-10.

You can pretty much read any chapter he wrote and see that it doesn't sound like wisdom from YHWH. It's a lot like Paul, you get deceived when you see something that sounds great, then it's followed by something truly satanic or nonsensical. Here are some passages:

As for men, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals. Man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; man has no advantage over the animal. Everything is meaningless. All go to the same place; all come from the dust, and to the dust all return. Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth.
So I saw that there is nothing better for a man than to enjoy his work, because that is his lot. For who can bring him to see what will happen after him? (ECC 3:18-22)

A feast is made for laughter, and wine makes life merry, but money is the answer for everything. (ECC 10:19)

Do not revile the king even in your thoughts, or curse the rich in your bedroom, because a bird of the air may carry your words, and a bird on the wing may report what you say (ECC 10:20)

The most troubling of them all is Shlomo's lengthy diatribe on wisdom (Athena/Satan):

YHWH brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old;
I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began.
When there were no oceans, I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water; before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth, before he made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world.
I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep, when he established the clouds above and fixed securely the foundations of the deep, when he gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep his command, and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
Then I was the craftsman at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day, rejoycing always in the presence, rejoicing in his whole world and delighting in mankind.

Now then, my sons, listen to me; blessed are those who keep my ways.
Listen to my instruction and be wise; do not ignore it.
Blessed is the man who listens to me, watching daily at my doors, waiting at my doorway. For whoever finds me finds life and receives favor from the Lord.
But whoever fails to find me harms himself; all who hate me love death.

Notice that in my Bible, the He and His references to YHWH are not capitalized.

Who was the first created being of YHWH's creation?
Who would try to take credit for helping?
Blessed are those who keep my (wisdom's) ways- what happened to YHWH?
Offline Deborah  
#4 Posted : Friday, June 4, 2010 5:31:06 PM(UTC)
Deborah
Joined: 5/28/2010(UTC)
Posts: 9
Woman
Location: NSW Australia

I've certainly purged Paul but I have difficulty (at this time anyway) finding fault with Solomon etc. It's interesting though and worth another read.
Offline Deborah  
#5 Posted : Friday, June 4, 2010 5:49:01 PM(UTC)
Deborah
Joined: 5/28/2010(UTC)
Posts: 9
Woman
Location: NSW Australia

Well, I had another read and surely the Proverb you refer to (8) is a direct reference to Yahshua. I've always thought so but I see you make the connection to Solomon. I have to say that in my bible the personal pronouns are in lower case when referring to the writer. That's interesting.
Offline Matthew  
#6 Posted : Friday, June 4, 2010 6:05:26 PM(UTC)
Matthew
Joined: 10/3/2007(UTC)
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Location: São Paulo, Brazil

Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 2 post(s)
Kelly and Shasta wrote:
The weight of the gold that Shlomo received yearly was 666 talents, not including [other sources of revenue] 1Kings 10:14. . . Why leave out the rest, just to get to 666?


As to you saying Solomon's wisdom "doesn't sound like wisdom from YHWH" verse 24 in that same passage states: "The whole world sought audience with Solomon to hear the wisdom God had put in his heart." It's a bit of a long shot to say that Yahweh didn't in fact give Solomon wisdom in answer to his prayer.

Kelly and Shasta wrote:
YHWH's final judgment on Shlomo for building temples to every pagan god:

YHWH became angry with Shlomo because his heart had turned away from YHWH the Elohim of Israel, who had appeared to him twice. Although He had forbidden Shlomo to follow other elohim, Shlomo did not keep YHWH's command. 1Kings 11:9-10.


The fact Solomon was eventually lead into sin by foreign women doesn't discount what he had to say. Should we discount David's writings since he too sinned greatly against Yahweh, going as far as having a guy purposefully killed in battle that he could have his wife to himself? What about the timing of events, did Solomon write the books after he was lead astray or before? What suggests he wrote it after being lead astray?

Kelly and Shasta wrote:
You can pretty much read any chapter he wrote and see that it doesn't sound like wisdom from YHWH. It's a lot like Paul, you get deceived when you see something that sounds great, then it's followed by something truly satanic or nonsensical. Here are some passages:

As for men, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals. Man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; man has no advantage over the animal. Everything is meaningless. All go to the same place; all come from the dust, and to the dust all return. Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth.
So I saw that there is nothing better for a man than to enjoy his work, because that is his lot. For who can bring him to see what will happen after him? (ECC 3:18-22)

A feast is made for laughter, and wine makes life merry, but money is the answer for everything. (ECC 10:19)

Do not revile the king even in your thoughts, or curse the rich in your bedroom, because a bird of the air may carry your words, and a bird on the wing may report what you say (ECC 10:20)


Context!

First three verses: man returns to the dust from which he came, sharing the same fate as animals. Solomon is aware that God makes the final judgement of who lives and who dies, of who receives a new spiritual body and who has their soul annihilated instead. The verses must be read slowly in context of the whole book.

Fourth verse: in context of the physical pleasures of this earth money is the answer to it. Without money you wouldn't be online or having a feast with a bottle of wine, even if it is Yahweh who sees to it that you have it. In context Solomon clearly reveals that for spiritual life after death Yahweh is the answer and that money is meaningless.

Fifth verse: does not sin begin in one's mind? Also, in context, imagine saying nasty things about one's government, don't you think they'll quickly hear about it and so turn against you? Solomon is warning us that it's better just to keep quiet and get on with our lives and loving Yahweh, no need to get all political because at the end of the day God is looking at one's heart and will bring all men to justice,

Kelly and Shasta wrote:
The most troubling of them all is Shlomo's lengthy diatribe on wisdom (Athena/Satan):

YHWH brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old;
I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began.
When there were no oceans, I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water; before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth, before he made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world.
I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep, when he established the clouds above and fixed securely the foundations of the deep, when he gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep his command, and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
Then I was the craftsman at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day, rejoycing always in the presence, rejoicing in his whole world and delighting in mankind.

Now then, my sons, listen to me; blessed are those who keep my ways.
Listen to my instruction and be wise; do not ignore it.
Blessed is the man who listens to me, watching daily at my doors, waiting at my doorway. For whoever finds me finds life and receives favor from the Lord.
But whoever fails to find me harms himself; all who hate me love death.

Notice that in my Bible, the He and His references to YHWH are not capitalized.

Who was the first created being of YHWH's creation?
Who would try to take credit for helping?
Blessed are those who keep my (wisdom's) ways- what happened to YHWH?


What's that about capitalisation? I thought ancient Hebrew didn't have punctuation nor capitalisation, but I could be wrong.

Solomon in this passage is obviously referring to Yahshua, as if Yahshua is speaking in the first person. Solomon doesn't declare that he's calling out, but instead declares that Wisdom ("she") calls out. I can think of a number of passages, such as John 1, stating very similar things, almost paraphrasing it.
Offline Deborah  
#7 Posted : Friday, June 4, 2010 6:39:37 PM(UTC)
Deborah
Joined: 5/28/2010(UTC)
Posts: 9
Woman
Location: NSW Australia

Ekklesia - I agree with you.
Offline J&M  
#8 Posted : Friday, June 4, 2010 9:23:10 PM(UTC)
J&M
Joined: 9/5/2007(UTC)
Posts: 234
Location: Eretz Ha'Quodesh

Shabbat Shalom everyone

The version of English translation being used here by K&S is I think??New International Version (©1984).

I was reading these verses from Proverbs but the rendition of the translation used seemed a mite odd.

Please bear in mind that the only relevant meaning in scripture is Yahs’, as he caused it to be written.
We must make do, in this case with the maoretic text.:D

As K&S don't regard this as coming from Yah, to them these verses are not scripture.But in agreed cases of scripyure....

How we obtain His truth is between Him, our Mother, Yahs Set apart Spirit, who does the enlightening, and the seeker and receiver of the enlightenment.

In our modern era we have books, and many other tools to help us to make sense of the Hebraic language used around 3500 years ago and its’ ‘entomology’. Then it was in everyday use, and for any seeker who heard or read it for at least fifteen to seventeen hundred years, it would still have been “relatively” vernacular.

The rendition of(StrongsH7069) קנה qânâh. Even in modern Hebrew it is the verb, buy.

Create, yes. But by procuring, not birthing. Acquiring, gathering, buying, getting, attaining, possessing, even winning, give a much better rendition in my opinion, than “birthing”. I am not saying I am right, I am merely pointing out how the use of a word alters our perception(s).

I have included all these below to show at a “glance “!! some differences in just a few translations.

You will find other words just in this verse that differ too. :D

Prov 8:22
(K&S version) YHWH brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old;

(ASV) Jehovah possessed me in the beginning of his way, Before his works of old.

(DRB) The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his ways, before he made any thing from the beginning.

(YLT) Jehovah possessed me--the beginning of His way, Before His works since then.

(HOT+) יהוהH3068 קנניH7069 ראשׁיתH7225 דרכוH1870 קדםH6924 מפעליוH4659 מאז׃H227
.
(KJVA) & (KJV) The LORDH3068 possessedH7069 me in the beginningH7225 of his way,H1870 beforeH6924 his worksH4659 of old.H4480 H227

English Standard Version (©2001)
“The LORD possessed me at the beginning of his work, the first of his acts of old.

For more renditions…..:D
http://bible.cc/proverbs/8-22.htm



I trust you all experience Yah’s purpose for Shabbat.
Offline J&M  
#9 Posted : Friday, June 4, 2010 9:42:43 PM(UTC)
J&M
Joined: 9/5/2007(UTC)
Posts: 234
Location: Eretz Ha'Quodesh

Apologies for typos etymology scripture and any others I missed.in my previous post. J
Offline Kelly and Shasta  
#10 Posted : Saturday, June 5, 2010 5:23:55 AM(UTC)
Kelly and Shasta
Joined: 3/29/2010(UTC)
Posts: 18
Location: Connecticut

Matthew wrote:
As to you saying Solomon's wisdom "doesn't sound like wisdom from YHWH" verse 24 in that same passage states: "The whole world sought audience with Solomon to hear the wisdom God had put in his heart." It's a bit of a long shot to say that Yahweh didn't in fact give Solomon wisdom in answer to his prayer.
Matthew wrote:


I think Paul first links Wisdom to Yahshua in 1Cor 1:24.
My whole point is that Wisdom is not the goal. The whole world came to hear this Wisdom, but neither they nor Solomon loved YHWH. I think the greatest lesson to learn from all that is written by and about Solomon is that wisdom will not save anybody. Once we know the difference between right and wrong by the holy spirit, we still have to choose.

Wasn't it the fruit of knowledge that landed us all in this predicament?

I also find it suspicious that his dream for wisdom came after he offered a thousand burnt offerings on a high place in Gibeon. 1Kings 3. Solomon is no prophet and there is no witness to this account, but even if he were given this wisdom, what was that wisdom specifically?

Yahweh tries to save Solomon even from his childhood. No sooner has he defiled himself with a thousand burnt offerings at Gibeon, than YHWH comes to him to teach him right from wrong.
He was given a wise (2450) and discerning (995) heart, but YHWH also commanded the king to walk in his ways.
If the blessing came from YHWH, he was given the ability to know right from wrong- to judge his people according to the Torah. We know that he did not make the correct choices by his actions. So why study as scripture the wisdom he may have written down?

Matthew wrote:
The fact Solomon was eventually lead into sin by foreign women doesn't discount what he had to say. Should we discount David's writings since he too sinned greatly against Yahweh, going as far as having a guy purposefully killed in battle that he could have his wife to himself? What about the timing of events, did Solomon write the books after he was lead astray or before? What suggests he wrote it after being lead astray?
Matthew wrote:


The issue is not whether either king sinned, but whether they repented and loved YHWH. Solomon was given the greatest discernment of all men to know the difference, but his heart was evil.

"As Solomon grew old, his wives turned his heart after other gods and his heart was not fully devoted to YHWH his elohim, as the heart of David his father had been. . . So Solomon did evil in the eyes of YHWH; hd did not follow YHWH completely as David his father had done." I Kings 11:4-6

David, Solomon, you, and I all sin. YHWH cares about what we do next.

Anyway, I'm not convinced that Solomon actually wrote any of these texts. Ecclesiastes is pretty well reasearched in Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecclesiastes

Although the writer says that he was king over Israel (1:12), and speaks as though he were Solomon, he nowhere says that he is Solomon. The style of the Heb. is later than Solomon’s time. If Solomon was the author, the book underwent a later modernization of language. Otherwise a later writer may have taken up a comment on life that had been made by Solomon, ‘Vanity of vanities, all is vanity,’ and used this as a text to show why even a wise and wealthy king should say such a thing. We cannot tell at what date the book received its present form, since there are no clear historical allusions in it. About 200 bc is commonly suggested

The most important consideration is whether Solomon's wisdom changes Torah by adding or subtracting from it. I think it does- his illegal sacrifice in the temple is the prime example and one that the modern-day pharisees use to prove oral law. I'm sure others can find more examples in his writings and life.

Authorship of Song of Solomon is questionable too:
http://en.wikipedia.org/.../Book_of_Song_of_Solomon

Perhaps some Proverbs were actually written by the king:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Proverbs
Offline Kelly and Shasta  
#11 Posted : Saturday, June 5, 2010 7:10:19 AM(UTC)
Kelly and Shasta
Joined: 3/29/2010(UTC)
Posts: 18
Location: Connecticut

Originally Posted by: J& Go to Quoted Post

How we obtain His truth is between Him, our Mother, Yahs Set apart Spirit, who does the enlightening, and the seeker and receiver of the enlightenment.

The rendition of(StrongsH7069) קנה qânâh. Even in modern Hebrew it is the verb, buy.


J&M

I loved your comment on the spirit. My wife (Shasta) tipped me off to this whole subject when she told me that Solomon was repulsive. In fact, she has been repulsed by him for more than 30 years- even when she studied him as he was idolized in her Hebrew schools. From her abhorance, I started trying to vindicate him since his writings were "the inspired word of G-d."

Ultimately, I agreed with her- she of course wondered what took me so long:)

We had a similar issue with a very different conclusion when we studied the creation account. I studied Gerald Schroder and some other wise men to come to the realization that it was all true. My studies of this subject baffled her. She told me:

"Moshe wrote in Genesis that YHWH created the world in 6 days, what else was there to know? Either it's true or there is no way life is worth living." I agree with that too.

I double checked Strong's 7069 "to erect, i.e. to create; by extens. to procure, espec. by purchase."

To be candid, I don't understand what either reading is getting at. . . YHWH purchased, or procured something before anything was created? What does that mean??? YHWH had to gather or acquire wisdom? Where would He get it from? I think he had to create it- particularly if it is personified.

For me, the question hinges on whether his writings keep the Torah. Perhaps someone else can find some transgressions in the writings attibuted to him. I' think this is how to best prove the value of any work we look to for guidance in understanding the Torah.

What I realize from these studies is that I need to dedicate more time to study the law (which is not in Solomon) to see how else I can improve my relationship with YHWH. Any chance that someone has already gone through the Torah and compiled comprehensive list with references (that doesn't add up to 613)?

Shabat Shalom

Kelly
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#12 Posted : Saturday, June 5, 2010 7:26:21 AM(UTC)
Robskiwarrior
Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,470
Man
Location: England

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Kelly and Shasta wrote:

Any chance that someone has already gone through the Torah and compiled comprehensive list with references (that doesn't add up to 613)?


Ken did :)

http://theownersmanual.net/
Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Offline bigritchie  
#13 Posted : Saturday, June 5, 2010 9:05:04 AM(UTC)
bigritchie
Joined: 4/15/2010(UTC)
Posts: 305
Location: USA

In my opinion Ecclesiastes is one of the most amazing books in the Scripture.

The key is reading the entire book in context with someone who has been given everything, realizes it is all a fleeting Illusion and that the true purpose of our lives in living in accordance with the Torah.

The entire letter is then summed up

"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear Elohim and keep his Commandments; for this is the whole duty of man. For Elohim shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil

Considering this is the exact same thing Messiah taught
you might want to take a step back and think before you pull a "Martin Luther" and start ripping anything out in the Bible that you may or may not agree with.
Offline Kelly and Shasta  
#14 Posted : Saturday, June 5, 2010 9:06:40 AM(UTC)
Kelly and Shasta
Joined: 3/29/2010(UTC)
Posts: 18
Location: Connecticut

Robskiwarrior wrote:


Thank you for the link. That's actually the first book I read in the YY site. Oddly enough I was reasearching the origins of wearing the Kipah.

I'm actually looking for something a little more concise that I can use as a frame for my research. Something like this, but without the yeast:

http://www.giveshare.org/BibleLaw/lawhandbook/

The work would ideally cover all the laws from Genesis to Deuteronomy. While I'm asking it would be something that I could have in a table I could modify and add notes to.
Offline Michael Dinofrio  
#15 Posted : Saturday, June 5, 2010 9:51:37 AM(UTC)
Michael Dinofrio
Joined: 4/30/2010(UTC)
Posts: 17
Location: Pittsfield,Ma

ShMa Yisra 'el
BE CAREFUL PLAYING YAH's EDITOR.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Yada Did Massive amounts of RESEARCH before Concluding SHaul.
That verse is YAhushua not Satan. All info on DEvils & SPirits are sketchy.
SEems that we love condemning anything. there seems to be a Perverse little guy whispering intolerance in my ear.
THe scripture states the fact of an Adversary. After that I think the only way to tell the difference in RUach, is Studiously working whit the TAnach & APostle writings. INtolerance is CLosed minded ness. IT is appropriate sometimes but I wont do anything but DIsregard anything against YAhushua .

I have FOUND The one MY SOUL loves- YAhushua, YaHuWeH; & THE sET APART ONES. ( You guys & gals)
Matzati Et She'Ahava Nafshi
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