These are just some observations / questions on the apparant sparcity of female input on the forum.:P

In ‘religious’,and ‘church’ circles women predominate in number and activity. It is often the woman or wife who gets ‘saved’ first.

I notice that there are a lot of men writing on the forum whose wives do not support the YY ethos, of the few ‘obvious' women some have unsupportive husbands.

The lack of ‘obvious' women who write on the forum can’t just be due to female ‘technophobia’?

After reading the wonderfully honest and profound comments by Walt and In His Name (Friday March 26th2010 2:00:24 PM and 2010 7:07:21) in ‘Fellowship’- Best laid plan? , and the forum as a whole over the last two and a half years, I wonder if the answer is in part ‘fellowship’, ’community’ , and ’belonging’?

Perhaps it is a man/ woman divide or just a ‘personality’ divide , that appears to show more men being ‘open’/ ‘prepared’ / ‘go it alone’.

Alternatvely women are much more reticent in ‘going against’ their husbands and 'leadership' –thank you ‘church’ doctrine and dogma. (won’t mention Pa-l here)]:), ;)

The question this evokes for me is why do women appear to ‘stick’ to the ‘religious’,and ’church’ ?

Are there physical or spiritual reasons?

Or do most women just not post on the forum because they already know the answers and have got better things to do while they wait for their men to catch up? :D

I must stress these are only a few thoughts on ‘possible’ reasons. I do not endorse or hold fast to any / many of them.

But I would be greatful for insights from existing and new forum members , men and women. :P

I derive tremendous support and a feeling of relief in the knowledge that after almost 30 years of being on the outside , 'I / we are not alone', and that YY and the forum share all or most of our long held views and practices and that we continue to learn and discover more.

Thank you YHWH for YY and the forum.


Jane (of J&M)

I hear you O MAN .(whispers the woman)


Thank for the reply Rob.


What you say is what I have observed too, sometimes I wondered what was wrong with me in those far off days!!

I just used to be 'cold' and wondering why I couldn't empathise with all the 'born again' 'spirit filled' people around me.

After all we were in a house group/ fellowship with 'scriptual'elders, bible studies and teaching (of a very high calibre) and leaving religion and orthodox church ways and practices behind us.

Within a year of our leaving {more accurately ejection) three wives of deacons committed suicide. We were told they just couldn't keep up with the expectations upon them.

But how if /this connects to the topic?

Hello this is something I have been thinking about, and I was pondering putting up a thread just for women but been a woman I've not had the time! lol

I like the forum and like to read when I can, but as great a husband as I have, it is me that does the majority of child care and organising family life so often I'm on the forum with a small monkey clinging to me, much like right now! I don't have the physical time to read the really long comments so then don't really feel able to contribute my thoughts having not read everything completely. The same goes for the time I have to study - as soon as I sit down at the PC someone is demanding my attention elsewhere so my study time is very bity.

I'm quite an intellectual really, got myself a degree in Theology, and maybe that puts me off a bit too - Ive spent years in college listening to people going round in circles with their latest idea and not really getting anywhere. I'm not someone who likes theology that doesn't impact life. If the discussion isn't going to make my relationship with Yah better then I don't really see a great deal of point in it!

The emotional thing is very true too - I tend to find the men in my life don't do feelings very well, if I ask the lovely Swalch and Robski about how their relationship with Yah has been this week the response is usually some deep Greek theological point, whereas my response is more about relationship, how I feel and what I'm struggling with personally.

What I want to know is how I can get closer to Yah and how that relationship can practically impact people around me. Intellectualising as fun as it is doesn't help me deal with a family who think we're crazy or friends who think I've taken the wrong path. It doesnt give me an answer to what I can do to impact society without that Christian label. I have lots of issues going back to my Christian days that i need to resolve and as much as I study, the answers to things like when I heard God speaking to me was it actually Him? And should I still be listening to that voice if I don't know for sure that it is Him? are kind of more important to me right now than the intelellectual debates.

I'll join this club - If it doesn't impact life - it's meaningless

While facts and truth are important, they can't be the goal, the goal must be RELATIONSHIP, both upwards and sidewards.
We need to keep in check that Truth is just the road, and we need to keep the vision on the passing scenery and destination as we keep our eyes the road

But on the flip side - we see and carry the wounds of the dire results how wrong theology impacts lives

There is even greater need for the completing/balancing female perspective here with the Mother/female aspect of relationship being accomplished with our Spiritual Mother: The Set-Apart Spirit (which is denied by christianity and judaism)

My wife & I are former pagans
In wicca, we found a much greater % of women, and we found many of them gravitated there (goddess worship) because of male dominated religious oppression and abuse
Having females involved and engaging provides a great opportunity in bringing the balance of both female & male Revelations of Yahuweh to those crushed by female aspect of religious victimization/oppression

Also having females involved and engaging helps BOTH sides in developing/correcting/maintaining proper relationships, and also examples relationship to others who are seeking or struggling



Ah - you must be a follower of Paul: silence, submission & scarves :>

But wait:
You say some profound things in your next post (did you just have a blond moment?)
It's time for the costume party's to be shut down, the masks ripped off, the illusions dismantled and let Yahushua's Light shine and illuminate so that correct theology can been seen impacting life as Juski expressed

There are plenty here & out there like myself that want something real and tangible, not wanting religious fluff and excuses

We can help each other take what we are learning and discovering and make it life affecting & impacting as Juski conveyed

I am so glad that you started this thread Jane. This is something that I have been struggling with and much like Danshelper I don't know as much as the rest of the people here and so I haven't posted much. This whole new wave of information has been enlightening and very beneficial to my relationship with Yahuweh. I can relate so well with Juski.


It is a comfort to know that I am not alone in all of this. I have been weeding through some of the same things because they were so essential to my relationship with Him before. I thank Yahuweh for all of you and this thread. You don't know how much it has helped.

Hi Jane

Thanks for adding this thread. I enjoy reading the forum but for me it’s a little intimidating due to the cerebral nature. I’m way out of my league.

I’ve been out of the christian religion for about 8 years. I’m widowed and have one son away at college. Gradually thru the years, I came out of the christianized pagan traditions my family and I practiced. Turning away from religion and not participating in the religious events have really alienated me from my family and friends.

This may be one reason why it’s so difficult for females to walk away from religion because family togetherness is so important. If you walk away from the christian religion, it may take a while, but you will eventually leave behind all its christianized pagan traditions, which mainly revolves around the family.

I don’t really think it matters how “gentle” you are in trying to reveal the truth, the fact that you no longer participate, that in itself alienates you from your family and friends, no matter how much you love them or they you. It is very much like grieving the death of a loved one.

I do long for fellowship with my brothers and sisters in Yahuweh’s family. I worry because I do understand how important relationship is to Yahuweh.

In my conservations with Him I find myself asking Him how he feels about me not really having any fellowship or relationships within His family…... asking Him is there compromise, do we compromise? I don’t know. My thoughts then usually go to the sheep that the evil religious systems have scattered, those scattered sheep who want the truth, they know something is deeply wrong, and as they cry out to “God” (who they eventually come to know as Yahuweh) they find themselves all alone, walking alone, searching until Yahushua finds them. He truly is the good shepherd.

I used to fellowship with a messianic group but as I learned more, I felt myself being pulled away from them. Even though they came out of the religious system they still held on to some of the very things they turned away from.

I received and email notice of this group hosting a Passover meal with an invited teacher who had Hebraic roots. I had mixed feelings about going. My plan was to celebrate Passover my son if he came home next weekend. But I did decide to go, and enjoyed the fellowship but was disappointed as the teacher went thru the meal, he referred to Jesus, Lord, Holy Spirit.

Each time I heard these words I would feel a sting. Here I’m reading along aloud with everyone and as I read, would replace names with the appropriate names in the readings but as the evening went on, I caught myself going back to the way I was taught. I’m trying to deprogram myself, change the way I think, from the old way I was taught to the truths that I am learning from Yahuweh. I know there is not a perfect fellowship but I can't tell you how hearing those pagan names for Yahuweh and Yahushua run thru me. It's just very, very offensive.

I feel that there are many of Yahuweh’s children who are single don’t have a spouse, or have a spouse who is not on board, who are walking alone. We may feel alone, but we know we are not. He promised.

May Yahuweh bless you Jane,

Pam

Hello again

I love this thread its great. I was just wondering what you all thought about asking the moderators to put up a new section on the forum for us ladies? We could then start some threads to discuss some of the issues we've raised here more fully and any others people think of.

I rule that Rob is out of order for even suggesting that men have feelings.

;-)

His punishment will be to re-read all of "Greatest Am I/Oprah"'s posting 7 times.

We grieve those we lose through death with a funeral service and burial. This provides a time to reflect on the past, provides a defined break from the past, and physically we watch that part of our lives literally be buried.

Perhaps a similar process would help the transition from religion.

By Mike.....

Personally I would rather our ladies were active in the main forum, but I think we also need to consider why the ladies feel 'intimidated', the idea of 'lack of knowledge' has come up several times.

All scripture is given by revelation, but Anna was a prophetess, so the revelation is not only through men. It was Mary of Bethany who anointed the Passover Lanb (Yahushua) 4 days prior to the sacrifice as ordained in Torah. And it was Mary Magdalen who greeted Yahushua on the day of His resurrection. YHWH gives revelation to women as well as men, and there is no qualification required to receive revelation except trust and reliance and seeking the truth of YHWH.

The disciples were all men probably because of the hardship and danger that they all had to suffer on the road.

I think we really need to understand what is going on, maybe a temporary 'ladies' forum so that the ladies can work out between them how we need to make the site more friendly without loosing its value...

Please shoot me down if I am wrong, the original post was something which Jane and I discussed at length before it was written...

PS. Jane does not know I have written this yet, the ladies are in the Kitchen preparing for Pesach tomorrow.

What about a 'families' thread rather than a 'ladies' thread?

(Mike)

but isn't that the fellowship forum? lol

Family thread sounds great! :) Hope that you all have a blessed passover!

Hope everyone had a great Passover celebration. I just some random thoughts at “easter time” - For some time now I’ve known that Easter, and all of our religious celebrations had some type of pagan root. I knew this even before I left Christianity, but I reasoned that “God knew what it meant to me” and that “surely He considers the meaning in my heart”.

Since I left Christiantiy, it seems that each year I’ve managed to offend one family member or another. It’s so strange that the simple act of not participating in something can be so offensive.

My home was were my extended family got together for Easter, complete with baked ham, bunny cake, decorating eggs, and easter egg hunt. In raising my son, I did the whole thing, took him have his picture taken with the easter bunny, left an easter basket for him on Sunday morning. I passed on what I experienced growing up.

For Four years now, I’ve been trying to undo what I exposed my son to growing up. I’ve apologized to him and am telling him the roots to all of it, and he sees it. He’s in college now so my opportunities are limited but I take every one that I can to teach him the truth.

We celebrated the Passover feast a day late when he came home from college, and spent the evening together discussing the three feasts and what they mean. My prayer is that he seeks a relationship with Yahuweh. Thru the years I’ve always hung to His promise that He will be a father to the fatherless, but I’ve taught my son the same deceptions I was taught. I ask Yah for mercy and to please consider all things as I am still learning.

It’s amazing to see how excited he gets because it’s like he’s getting permission to actually think and reason and come to an understanding instead of having to stuff things that don’t make sense. In my up bringing in the church, you were considered to have a critical spirit if you questioned the teaching or the pastor.

One example was the 3 doors. He said he never understood how a person could go to hell just because they chose not to accept Jesus. He said, think about a good guy , who was more giving and kind to people , even more than most Christians, and he’s going to burn in hell because he chose not to accept Jesus Christ as his personal savior. How can cruel is that. When I explained the 3 doors it made total sense to him.

I think one reason why he is seeing and understanding is because he did see that something was wrong with this church system. Unless a person has a sense deep down that something is just not right with the Christian Religion, they will not be receptive, nor will they be willing to walk away from it.

Thanks to Yada and KP for searching the scriptures.

Hi Yorkie

welcome to the forum. We have an 8, 6 and 18month old so know how you feel. It would be great to chat about our experiences some time. Make sure you write a little intro about yourselves on the hello my name is thread in fellowship so we can get to know who you are

Ju

does Yorkie mean you're in Yorkshire? We live in Manchester so just up the road :)

Hi Juski, PattyB


Patty- any advice about teaching the kids is always welcome- mommy or not!!

We have just finished celebrating our first Passover, while we have not been part of a church for yrs we are new to observing the feasts properly.

We started opting out of the 'pagan celebrations' at Christmas last yr and in fact went away to escape the madness that the UK becomes upto 25th Dec. It was easier to dispense with Father Christmas, the tree/presents etc and the children, as children are, were surprisingly accepting. However I feel that although as a family we now realise the pagan celebrations that we used to do are wrong, that equally we replace them with Yahweh's appointed feasts and celebrate them in such a way that we not only learn but have a great time, hence the need to canvas opinion on what other families do.....



....and yes Juski we are just down the road!

Guys/Gals

Maybe we need to look for a location to celebrate shauvot together

Our little group did pesach in Fareham even though Jane and I were in J

Maybe we could look for a venue north of London somewhere (maybe a campsite for cheapness)