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Cindy		#1 Posted : Thursday, October 15, 2009 3:47:52 AM(UTC)
Joined: 4/10/2009(UTC) Posts: 8		Hello All, I am new to the forum. I occasionally post in forums when I have time. I am a truly conceived believer in the Moshiach. The True Moshiach. As you all know we have been fed lies upon lies about His identity and even the Holy Writ has been corrupted to some degree. None-the-less for those who search for the Father and Son will find them and the thread of Truth woven in the New Testament and elsewhere does become visible. I was moved by the Holy Ruach a year ago to study the similarities between our Lord YHVwy and Isaac. What I discovered was wonderful and I have wanted to share it with the world. But, as you know most of the world loves the darkness and hates the light. My hope is that the Father will give some increase to those of you on this forum or anyone who reads this. I am open to questions if you have any. Blessings, 6th Month Visitation-Messiah Luke 1:26-27 And in the sixth month the Angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth. To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name [was] Mary. Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name יהושוע Many if not most people believe that the sixth month here in Luke 1: 26 is talking about the sixth month of Elizabeth's pregnancy (Luke 1:24). This is also the sixth month of the Hebrew year. 6th Month Visitation-Isaac Book of Jubilees 16:12 And in the middle of the sixth month (Elul) the Lord visited Sarah and did unto her as he had said, and she conceived. http://newsinfo.iu.edu/news/page/normal/1203.html “In September of 3 B.C., Jupiter came into conjunction with Regulus, the star of kingship, the brightest star in the constellation Leo the Lion. Leo was the constellation of kings, and it was associated with the Lion of Judah. Just a month earlier, Jupiter and Venus had almost seemed to touch each other in another close conjunction "in the east" “ This is the sixth month of the Hebrew year when our Lord was conceived. 38 weeks (give or take a week or two) Gestation/10 Months starting in the middle of Elul Elul Tishri Chesvan Kislev Tevet Shebat Adar Nisan Iyar Sivan 3 BCE Jan 1 13:57 Jan 9 18:00 Jan 17 00:31 Jan 23 16:24 Jan 31 07:22 n Feb 8 12:11 Feb 15 11:00 T Feb 22 02:41 Mar 2 01:19 n Mar 10 02:21 Mar 16 19:56 Mar 23 14:49 Mar 31 18:16 Apr 8 12:40 Apr 15 03:48 Apr 22 05:01 Apr 30 09:11 May 7 19:52 May 14 11:28 May 21 21:02 May 29 21:51 Jun 6 01:03 Jun 12 20:07 Jun 20 14:12 Jun 28 08:43 Jul 5 05:31 Jul 12 06:52 Jul 20 07:39 Jul 27 18:27 n Aug 3 10:42 ELUL Aug 10 20:25 A Aug 19 00:35 Aug 26 03:41 n Sep 1 18:10 TISHRI Sep 9 12:44 Sep 17 16:23 Sep 24 12:57 Oct 1 05:15 CHESVAN Oct 9 06:56 Oct 17 06:30 Oct 23 22:45 Oct 30 20:36 KISLEV Nov 8 01:42 Nov 15 18:28 Nov 22 09:33 Nov 29 15:46 TEVET Dec 7 19:43 Dec 15 04:10 Dec 21 21:49 Dec 29 13:06 Star of Bethlehem/Birth of Messiah June 17, 2BCE Jupiter and Venus merged near star Regulus in Leo http://newsinfo.iu.edu/news/page/normal/1203.html “Star of Bethlehem occurred numerous times to help the Magi. In 3–2 BC, there was a series of seven conjunctions, including three between Jupiter and Regulus and a strikingly close conjunction between Jupiter and Venus near Regulus on June 17, 2 BC. "The fusion of two planets would have been a rare and awe-inspiring event", according to an influential paper by Roger Sinnott. Larson first had to approximate the death of King Herod, which, based on the writings of ancient Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, most scholars presume to be about 4 B.C. But Larson said he found a recent discovery that states a printing error occurred in the 14th Century. The error had incorrectly printed Josephus' presumption of Herod's death. This caused scholars to look at the wrong date in researching the Star of Bethlehem. "All the oldest manuscripts, before 1544, are consistent with Herod having died in 1 B.C.," Larson said. "That opens up the possibility for us to look in the years 2 and 3 B.C. There, the sky explodes!" Something did happen, however, that was much more profound -- a triple conjunction of Jupiter, Venus and the star Regulus on April 3, 2 B.C., and a new moon. "What you had was two stars stacked on top of each other," Larson explained. "To an observer, it appeared to be the brightest star anyone had ever seen." Larson described it as an astronomical event that hasn't happened again in the 20th Century. Larson also hedges much of his hypothesis on the existence of this Star phenomenon on nine points taken from Matthew. This includes: it rose in the east, it endured over time (eliminating that it could have been a comet or a meteor) and that it stopped over the place where the Christ child was born.” April 3/4, 2 BC was the beginning of the year Nisan 1 http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/phas e/phases-0099.html 2 BCE New Moon 1/4 Moon Full Moon 3/4 Moon SHEBAT Jan 6 11:53 Jan 13 12:06 Jan 20 11:40 p Jan 28 10:27 ADAR Feb 5 01:29 A Feb 11 19:17 Feb 19 02:49 Feb 27 05:54 ADAR II Mar 6 12:17 Mar 13 02:54 Mar 20 18:35 Mar 28 22:16 NISAN Apr 4 20:43 Apr 11 11:57 Apr 19 10:18 Apr 27 11:01 IYAR May 4 03:43 May 10 23:03 May 19 01:28 May 26 20:18 SIVAN Jun 2 10:27 Jun 9 12:27 Jun 17 15:47 Jun 25 02:53 Jul 1 18:09 Jul 9 04:07 Jul 17 05:02 p Jul 24 08:02 Jul 31 03:47 H Aug 7 21:46 Aug 15 17:06 Aug 22 13:13 Aug 29 16:03 Sep 6 16:43 Sep 14 04:06 Sep 20 19:58 Birth of Isaac Book of Jubilees 16:13 And she bore a son in the third month, in the middle of the month, at the time of which the Lord had spoken to Abraham, on the festival of the first-fruits of the harvest, Isaac was born. June 17, 2 BCE is Sivan 15, 2 BCE Middle of Third Month Full Moon Also, at this same time..... Incidentally this same day is Exodus 24. The sealing of the Covenant with blood. Exd 24:1-8 NOW He said to Moses, "Come up to the LORD, you and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, and worship from afar. "And Moses alone shall come near the LORD, but they shall not come near; nor shall the people go up with him." So Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD and all the judgments. And all the people answered with one voice and said, "All the words which the LORD has said we will do." And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD. And he rose early in the morning, and built an altar at the foot of the mountain, and twelve pillars according to the twelve tribes of Israel. Then he sent young men of the children of Israel, who offered burnt offerings and sacrificed peace offerings of oxen to the LORD. And Moses took HALF the blood and put it in basins, and half the blood he sprinkled on the altar. Then he took the Book of the Covenant and read in the hearing of the people. And they said, "All that the LORD has said we will do, and be obedient." And Moses took the blood, sprinkled it on the people, and said, "This is the blood of the covenant which the LORD has made with you according to all these words." The covenant of the Halves was cut in the Middle of Sivan Jubilees 14:1-20 1.“After these things, in the fourth year of this week, on the new moon of the third month, the word of the Lord came to Abram in a dream ...... 10. And he took all these in the middle of the month; and he dwelt at the oak of Mamre, which is near Hebron. 4 11. And he built there an altar, and sacrificed all these; and he poured their blood upon the altar, and divided them in the midst, and laid them over against each other; but the birds divided he not. 12. And birds came down upon the pieces, and Abram drove them away, and did not suffer the birds to touch them. 5 13. And it came to pass, when the sun had set, that an ecstasy fell upon Abram, and lo! an horror of great darkness fell upon him, and it was said unto Abram: "Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land (that is) not theirs, and they will bring them into bondage, and afflict them four hundred years. 1 14. And the nation also to whom they will be in bondage shall I judge, and after that they will come forth thence with much substance. 15. And thou wilt go to thy fathers in peace, and be buried in a good old age. 16. But in the fourth generation 2 they will return hither; for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full." 3 17. And he awoke from his sleep, and he arose, and the sun had set; and there was a flame, and behold! a furnace was smoking, and a flame of fire passed between the pieces. 18. And on that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying: "To thy seed will I give this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates, (See also Genesis 15) As well, in the Dead Sea Scrolls the New Grain Pentecost was celebrated in the Middle of the Third Month (Sivan). So, the Essenes knew of this date and celebrated it. This day is significant for remembrances of past events and I believe will be significant in the future. Thank you for listening. PS: sorry the NASA tables are messy. You can get a better view on the website.


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kp		#2 Posted : Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:31:23 AM(UTC)
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,030 Location: Palmyra, VA		Hi, Cindy, and welcome to the forum. The problem, as I see it, it not that your calculations are off, or even that the dates and numbers mentioned in the cited scriptures aren't significant. But there is nothing halfway obvious to connect any of that with the birth of Yahshua. As Swalchy noted, the evidence (both symbolic and historical) leads some of us to the conclusion that His actual birthday occurred on the Feast of Tabernacles, 2 BCE. The following is from the Chronology appendix to Future History: Quote: It would seem that the Feast of Tabernacles will have two fulfillments, reflecting the two last advents of Yahshua. Many Christians today realize that Yahshua wasn’t actually born in late December, but since the Gospel record doesn’t overtly give us a date, we’re left to piece together the clues. Note that since the birth of Yahshua as fulfilled in the Feast of Tabernacles came out of order in the Levitical program, it can’t be the final realization of the Miqra, but rather should be viewed as a precursor or partial accomplishment of the prophecy. Chuck Misler, in his informative online newsletter K-House News, offers the following insightful analysis: “Most serious Bible students realize that Jesus was probably not born on December 25th. The shepherds had their flocks in open fields, which implies a date prior to October. Furthermore, no competent Roman administrator would require registration involving travel during the season when Judea was generally impassable. “If Jesus wasn’t born on December 25, just when was he born? Although the Bible doesn’t explicitly identify the birthday of our Lord, many scholars have developed diverse opinions as to the likely birthday of Jesus. “The early Christian church did not celebrate Jesus’ birth, and therefore the exact date was not preserved in festivals. [Actually, being Jews, they did celebrate it with a festival, as we shall soon see. Whether or not they realized this was Yahshua’s birthday remains a matter of conjecture.] The first recorded mention of December 25th is in the Calendar of Philocalus (AD 354), which assumed Jesus’ birth to be Friday, December 25th, AD 1. This was subsequent to Constantine’s Edict of Toleration in AD 313, which officially ended the government-sanctioned persecution of the Christians. The date of December 25th, which was officially proclaimed by the church fathers in AD 440, was actually a vestige of the Roman holiday of Saturnalia, observed near the winter solstice, which itself was among the many pagan traditions inherited from the earlier Babylonian priesthood. “The year of Jesus’ birth is broadly accepted as 4 BC, primarily from erroneous conclusions derived from Josephus’ recording of an eclipse, assumed to be on March 13, 4 BC, “shortly before Herod died.” There are a number of problems with this in addition to the fact that it was more likely the eclipse occurred on December 29, 1 B.C. Considerable time elapsed between Jesus’ birth and Herod’s death since the family fled to Egypt to escape Herod’s edict and they didn’t return until after Herod’s death. Furthermore, Herod died on January 14, 1 BC. Tertullian (born about 160 AD) stated that Augustus began to rule 41 years before the birth of Jesus and died 15 years after that event. Augustus died on August 19, 14 AD, placing Jesus’ birth at 2 BC. Tertullian also notes that Jesus was born 28 years after the death of Cleopatra in 30 BC, which is consistent with a date of 2 BC. Irenaeus, born about a century after Jesus, also notes that the Lord was born in the 41st year of the reign of Augustus. Since Augustus began his reign in the autumn of 43 BC, this also appears to substantiate the birth in 2 BC. Eusebius (264-340 AD), the ‘Father of Church History,’ ascribes it to the 42nd year of the reign of Augustus and the 28th from the subjection of Egypt on the death of Anthony and Cleopatra. The 42nd year of Augustus ran from the autumn of 2 BC to the autumn of 1 BC. The subjugation of Egypt into the Roman Empire occurred in the autumn of 30 BC. The 28th year extended from the autumn of 3 BC to the autumn of 2 BC. The only date that would meet both of these constraints would be the autumn of 2 BC. “Another approach in determining the date of Jesus’ birth is from information about John the Baptist. Elizabeth, John’s mother, was a cousin of Mary and the wife of a priest named Zacharias who was of the ‘course’ of Abijah (Priests were divided into 24 courses and each course officiated in the Temple for one week [at a time, twice a year], from Sabbath to Sabbath). When the Temple was destroyed by Titus on August 5, 70 AD, the first course of priests had just taken office. Since the course of Abijah was the eighth course, we can track backwards and determine that Zacharias would have ended his duties on July 13, 3 BC. If the birth of John took place 280 days later, it would have been on April 19-20, 2 BC (precisely on Passover of that year). John began his ministry in the 15th year of Tiberius Caesar. The minimum age for the ministry was 30. As Augustus died on August 19, 14 BC, that was the accession year for Tiberius. If John was born on April 19-20, 2 BC, his 30th birthday would have been April 19-20, 29 AD, or the 15th year of Tiberius. This seems to confirm the 2 B.C. date and, since John was five months older, this also confirms the autumn birth date for Jesus. “Elisabeth hid herself for five months and then the Angel Gabriel announced to Mary both Elisabeth’s condition and that Mary also would bear a son who would be called Jesus. Mary went “with haste” to visit Elisabeth, who was then in the first week of her sixth month, or the fourth week of December, 3 BC. If Jesus was born 280 days later it would place the date of his birth on September 29, 2 BC. If Jesus was born on September 29, 2 BC, it is interesting to note that it was also the First of Tishri, the day of the Feast of Trumpets.” The only issue I have with these conclusions is that Elizabeth didn’t become pregnant the instant Zacharias stepped out of the Holy of Holies. He finished his priestly course before returning home to her (Luke 1:23-24). Pushing Mr. Misler’s whole schedule back fourteen days, though, makes everything fit like a glove: It would place Yahshua’s birth at the Feast of Tabernacles, also known as Sukkoth, two weeks after the Feast of Trumpets. This fits perfectly with Yahweh’s prophetic plan: Immanuel is God “camping out” among men. John, in fact, told us as much: “The Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.” (John 1:14) The word for “dwelt” tells the tale. Skenoo means “to tent or encamp, that is, to occupy or to reside, as God did in the Tabernacle of old, a symbol of protection and communion, to dwell.” (Strong’s) Yahshua was born in the autumn of 2 BC, began His ministry when he was “about 30” (Luke 3:23) i.e. any time after the autumn of A.D. 29 (remember, there’s no year 0), and was crucified three and a half years later, in the spring of A.D. 33. He may have been camping out, but this was no vacation. Furthermore, Luke records that “[Mary] brought forth her firstborn Son, [Yahshua] and wrapped him in swaddling cloths, and laid Him in a manger [a feed trough], because there was no room for them in the inn.” (Luke 2:7) The only place you’d find a manger is in a stable or corral, a place for housing livestock. It is not without significance that the Hebrew word for such a place is sukkoth, the very word used to describe the temporary shelters the Jews were to construct during the Feast of Tabernacles (or Booths), and thus the Hebrew name for the seventh miqra. The fulfillment of the miqra’s prophecy is therefore absolutely literal. Yahshua was born on Sukkoth, the Feast of Tabernacles. I hope that makes sense. kp
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Cindy		#3 Posted : Friday, October 16, 2009 7:57:52 AM(UTC)
Joined: 4/10/2009(UTC) Posts: 8		Hello again, Yes, I hear what you both are saying. I, too, used to consider Tishri 1 as the birth date. I was following tradition without anything to back it up. It sounded really convincing. Old Adam born on this day (rabbinic tradition). New Adam born on this day (messianic tradition). Then there are the folks who believe Tabernacles was the date. This is originally what I thought was the date when I left Christianity mainly because the Messianics I read quoted "and He tabernacled with us". That sounded great, too. Of course before that was the infamous December 25. And, wow, all the christian tradition around that. How could you deny such a beautiful story. Let each be convinced in his own eyes. If you believe that Yom Teruah and/or Tabernacles has been fulfilled with His birth then blessings to you. But, once I discovered the details of my previous post and the Heavenly signatures I personally cannot deny it. There were a number of conjunctions during those two years of which June 17th, 2 BCE was the greatest. The conjunction of Tishri 1, 3 BCE was significant to those who understood the signs -the Magi. As well the retrograde in December, 2 BCE was significant in helping the Magi locate the child that week. As you know Joseph and Mary had to flee at NIGHT after the visit because the danger was imminent according to the warning Joseph received. They left on a Sabbath because Herod's men could not slaughter the innocents on a Sabbath. Matt 24:20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. His flight was in Winter and on a Sabbath. Herod's men struck the next day. After that Herod was struck with a Horrific disease and died. According to Josephus there was a lunar eclipse that year. http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa...9-0000/LE0000-01-10T.gif This is from Ask EL Martin website, well researched. The Only Eclipse that Meets All Factors The eclipse of Josephus had to have been that of January 10, 1 B.C.E. All the events mentioned by Josephus fit quite comfortably with this eclipse, and only with this eclipse as we will soon show. There were three months from this eclipse to the next Passover. The messengers sent by Herod to Rome at the end of Antipater’s trial in the previous autumn would have arrived back in Palestine (to Herod in Jericho) in 2 or 2 ½ months, which is very reasonable. At the death of Herod in late January, messengers immediately would have been sent to Rome to inform Caesar of Herod’s death, thus permitting Sabinus to arrive from Rome just after the Passover to secure to the imperial treasury the property of Herod. Matthias would also have been available for the Day of Atonement in the previous autumn. In fact, everything fits beautifully in other ways. There is a Jewish document called the Megillath Taanith (Scroll of Fasting, though it records festival days too) which was composed, initially, not long after the destruction of Jerusalem in C.E. 70. This scroll mentions two semi-festival days during which no mourning was permitted. One is Kislev 7. The month of Kislev corresponds in most years with our December. The other commemorative day was Schebat 2. This month answers to our late January or early February. No one knows why these two days of feasting are commemorated yet they must have been days of joy ordained before the destruction of Jerusalem in C.E. 70. What did they honor? An early Jewish commentator who probably lived in the 7th century wrote a brief remark to Kislev 7 (December 5th), “The day of Herod’s death.” However, M. Moise Schwab, who studied the information about the scroll very extensively, felt that it was really the second of the days, Schebat 2 (January 28th) that was the actual day commemorating Herod’s death. 32 And interestingly, this latter date fits remarkably well with the January 10th eclipse of Josephus. Herod’s death on this very day would have occurred 18 days after the eclipse. All the information in Josephus about Herod’s activities between the eclipse and his death fits nicely with the chronological facts. As far as the conception of John. Zacharius was working during Passover week (all orders worked during Unleavened Bread) and John was conceived shortly thereafter. You mention a prophecy of birth. I would like to know what prophecy there is saying the Messiah will be born during the Feast of Ingathering? John 1:14 is not a prophecy of birth. You can consider it a prophecy of living amongst us. I would need a reference from the Prophets or Tanach to consider it a prophecy connected to birth. There is too much for me to discount. Like I said earlier, Let each be convinced in his/her own mind. Edited by moderator Friday, October 16, 2009 9:38:24 AM(UTC) \| Reason: Not specified


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Matthew		#4 Posted : Friday, October 16, 2009 8:21:50 AM(UTC)
Joined: 10/3/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,191 Location: São Paulo, Brazil Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 2 post(s)		Welcome to the forum Cindy! Cindy wrote: If you believe that Yom Teruah and/or Tabernacles has been fulfilled with His birth then blessings to you. I don't believe any of us have specifically said that Taruwah and Sukah were fulfilled with Yahshua's birth since these feasts represent the pre-Tribulation Rapture and the Millennial Sabbath Rest respectively. Cindy wrote: You mention a prophecy of birth. I would like to know what prophecy there is saying the Messiah will be born during the Feast of Ingathering? John 1:14 is not a prophecy of birth. You can consider it a prophecy of living amongst us. I would need a reference from the Prophets or Tanach to consider it a prophecy connected to birth. Already in Genesis 1 we are told the greater light (symbolic of Yahshua) would appear during the 4th millennium of man's history since the fall of Adam. But as far as I'm aware there are no prophecies directly saying Yahshua will be born on a specific day; however, Sukah fits perfectly with the description of God coming to tabernacle with us, both as Yahshua 2000 years ago and when He returns for the Millennial Sabbath, plus it fits perfectly into Yahweh's pattern of 6+1 in a physical, prophetic and spiritual sense. Cindy wrote: There is too much for me to discount. If you mean in discounting what we say then I would kindly ask you to read Yada Yahweh, The Owner's Manual Vol.1 and Vol.2 and Future History, and then if you still have things to discount then by all means let us know on the forum because we are here to learn. http://www.yadayahweh.com http://futurehistory.yadayahweh.com http://www.theownersmanual.net


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Robskiwarrior		#5 Posted : Friday, October 16, 2009 9:07:31 AM(UTC)
Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,470 Location: England Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)		Cindy wrote: I, too, used to consider Tishri 1 as the birth date. I was following tradition without anything to back it up. It sounded really convincing. There is a tradition? Also we don't consider 1 Tishri the "birthdate" because Sukah starts on the 15th... Taruw'ah is on the 1st... I think you are a little muddled?
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Matthew		#6 Posted : Friday, October 16, 2009 9:58:24 AM(UTC)
Joined: 10/3/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,191 Location: São Paulo, Brazil Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 2 post(s)		Robskiwarrior wrote: There is a tradition? It's also the first time I heard of that tradition.


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kp		#7 Posted : Friday, October 16, 2009 12:00:17 PM(UTC)
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,030 Location: Palmyra, VA		Bottom line: Yahweh never told us to observe or celebrate the birth of the Messiah. So---what dates did He tell us to commemorate? (1) The weekly Sabbath; (2) New Moons; (3) Sabbath Years; (4) the seven annual Miqra'ey, the annual prophetic appointments; (5) the 10th day of Nisan (bringing the Passover Lamb into the household); (6) Jubilee/Yowbel. Did I miss anything? He identified the New Year (Nisan 1) but He didn't tell us to celebrate it. He identified a seventy (prophetic)-year schedule for the culmination of His plan for Israel (along with a plethora of time spans to help us guage prophetic progress), but He left no instructions concerning their observance. My point is, why are we so hung up over something Yahweh obviously doesn't care if we know or not? Yahshua's birth date is not part of His equation. His life, death, mission, resurrection, indwelling, transformation, reconciliation, and reign are. kp
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Robskiwarrior		#8 Posted : Friday, October 16, 2009 12:32:38 PM(UTC)
Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,470 Location: England Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)		kp wrote: Bottom line: Yahweh never told us to observe or celebrate the birth of the Messiah. So---what dates did He tell us to commemorate? (1) The weekly Sabbath; (2) New Moons; (3) Sabbath Years; (4) the seven annual Miqra'ey, the annual prophetic appointments; (5) the 10th day of Nisan (bringing the Passover Lamb into the household); (6) Jubilee/Yowbel. Did I miss anything? He identified the New Year (Nisan 1) but He didn't tell us to celebrate it. He identified a seventy (prophetic)-year schedule for the culmination of His plan for Israel (along with a plethora of time spans to help us guage prophetic progress), but He left no instructions concerning their observance. My point is, why are we so hung up over something Yahweh obviously doesn't care if we know or not? Yahshua's birth date is not part of His equation. His life, death, mission, resurrection, indwelling, transformation, reconciliation, and reign are. kp well yes, that is also something I was thinking LOL
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Matthew		#9 Posted : Friday, October 16, 2009 12:47:54 PM(UTC)
Joined: 10/3/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,191 Location: São Paulo, Brazil Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 2 post(s)		The whole we shouldn't get hung up with His birthday was on my mind too. It's a contrary message to what's taught in Scripture, that Yahshua was with Yahweh in the beginning in that He wasn't born. kp wrote: Bottom line: Yahweh never told us to observe or celebrate the birth of the Messiah. So---what dates did He tell us to commemorate? (1) The weekly Sabbath; (2) New Moons; (3) Sabbath Years; (4) the seven annual Miqra'ey, the annual prophetic appointments; (5) the 10th day of Nisan (bringing the Passover Lamb into the household); (6) Jubilee/Yowbel. Did I miss anything? Think you got em!


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Cindy		#10 Posted : Friday, October 16, 2009 1:33:58 PM(UTC)
Joined: 4/10/2009(UTC) Posts: 8		Book of Jubilees http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/jub/jub20.htm 19. But Abraham observed it, and Isaac and Jacob and his children observed it up to thy days, and in thy days the children of Israel forgot it until ye celebrated it anew on this mountain. 20. And do thou command the children of Israel to observe this festival in all their generations for a commandment unto them: one day 3 in the year in this month they shall celebrate the festival. 21. For it is the feast of weeks and the feast of first-fruits: 4 this feast is twofold and of a double nature: 5 according to what is written and engraven concerning it celebrate it. 22. For I have written in the book of the first law, 6 in that which I have written for thee, that thou shouldst celebrate it in its season, one day 7 in the year, and I explained to thee its sacrifices that the children of Israel should remember and should celebrate it throughout their generations in this month, one day in every year. Deut 18:4 The firstfruit [also] of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the first of the fleece of thy sheep, shalt thou give him. Deut 26 Deu 26:1 "AND it shall be, when you come into the land which the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, and you possess it and dwell in it, Deu 26:2 "that you shall take some of the first of all the produce of the ground, which you shall bring from your land that the LORD your God is giving you, and put it in a basket and go to the place where the LORD your God chooses to make His name abide. Deu 26:3 "And you shall go to the one who is priest in those days, and say to him, 'I declare today to the LORD your[fn1] God that I have come to the country which the LORD swore to our fathers to give us.' Deu 26:4 "Then the priest shall take the basket out of your hand and set it down before the altar of the LORD your God. ......... Deu 26:16 "This day the LORD your God commands you to observe these statutes and judgments; therefore you shall be careful to observe them with all your heart and with all your soul. Deu 26:17 "Today you have proclaimed the LORD to be your God, and that you will walk in His ways and keep His statutes, His commandments, and His judgments, and that you will obey His voice. Deu 26:18 "Also today the LORD has proclaimed you to be His special people, just as He promised you, that you should keep all His commandments, Deu 26:19 "and that He will set you high above all nations which He has made, in praise, in name, and in honor, and that you may be a holy people to the LORD your God, just as He has spoken." 1 Cor 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the Firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. Each of the Feasts of YH'H have multiple reasons to celebrate. So we remember Passover and the Lord's crucifixion. So we remember the Wave Sheaf and the Lord's resurrection. So we celebrate the First Fruits of Grain (see New Grain Pentecost in Dead Sea Scrolls) and the birth of our Bread of Life, the First Fruit of the dead, YHVwy. So as well we celebrate the New Wine Pentecost in Av (see DSS) and the Shechina falling on the people in the Temple Acts 2:13 Others mocking said, "They are full of new wine." So we also blow the shofar on Yom Teruah to shout the Torah is HERE (second set that is). Philo THE EIGHTH FESTIVAL XXXI. (188) Immediately after comes the festival of the sacred moon; in which it is the custom to play the trumpet in the temple at the same moment that the sacrifices are offered. From which practice this is called the true feast of trumpets, and there are two reasons for it, one peculiar to the nation, and the other common to all mankind. Peculiar to the nation, as being a commemoration of that most marvellous, wonderful, and miraculous event that took place when the holy oracles of the law were given; (189) for then the voice of a trumpet sounded from heaven, which it is natural to suppose reached to the very extremities of the universe, so that so wondrous a sound attracted all who were present, making them consider, as it is probable, that such mighty events were signs betokening some great things to be accomplished. (190) And what more great or more beneficial thing could come to men than laws affecting the whole race? And what was common to all mankind was this: the trumpet is the instrument of war, sounding both when commanding the charge and the retreat. ... There is also another kind of war, ordained of God, when nature is at variance with itself, its different parts attacking one another. (191) And by both these kinds of war the things on earth are injured. They are injured by the enemies, by the cutting down of trees, and by conflagrations; and also by natural injuries, such as droughts, heavy rains, lightning from heaven, snow and cold; the usual harmony of the seasons of the year being transformed into a want of all concord. (192) On this account it is that the law has given this festival the name of a warlike instrument, in order to show the proper gratitude to God as the giver of peace, who has abolished all seditions in cities, and in all parts of the universe, and has produced plenty and prosperity, not allowing a single spark that could tend to the destruction of the crops to be kindled into flame. and also commemorate the more marvelous, wonderful, and miraculous event- Our Lord and Savior coming down from Heaven-the Living Torah. John 3:13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. There of course is more. Reading Jubilees (and Dead Sea Scrolls) will give greater insight on the Feasts and how they have been commemorated over time. This does not mean we are finished, though. There will be more to celebrate as time unfolds.


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Cindy		#11 Posted : Saturday, October 17, 2009 9:59:32 AM(UTC)
Joined: 4/10/2009(UTC) Posts: 8		Philo is not tradition. He was a recorder of history, jewish history from the first century. History is followed up with facts. Trace the Exodus story and you will see the second set of tablets came down on Tishri 1. Moses was on the Mount two times, 40 days each. He came down once on Av 1 (New Wine Pentecost in Dead Sea Scrolls)and found the Golden calf and 3000 died. (Acts 2:13 Others mocking said, "They are full of new wine." Acts 2:41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added [to them].) Later in Av Moses goes back up the Mount for the second 40 days and returns on Tishri 1. For those with an ear to hear. The Insight I have been given has been passed to you. The blessings from it will give you better hope and further your walk with the Lord. He gave me the "go ahead" to pass it to you. To edify those in the Body who have the fertile ground to sow the seed. Blessings and Shalom, Romans 14:19 Therefore let us pursue the things [which make] for peace and the things by which one may edify another. Strong's G3619 - oikodomē a) the act of one who promotes another's growth in Christian wisdom, piety, happiness, holiness


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RidesWithYah		#12 Posted : Sunday, October 18, 2009 3:35:47 AM(UTC)
Joined: 6/10/2008(UTC) Posts: 331		Hi Cindy, You may have noticed folks around here are sensitive to two things: a) Saying "He said..." when it isn't in Scripture, because there aren't very many prophets around these days, and b) Referring to Yahweh as "the Lord". The Lord is a title, it's Baal's title, and Yahweh doesn't like it. "In that day, declares Yahweh, they will call me 'my husband'; they will no longer call me 'my Lord'. I will remove the names of the Baals from their lips; no longer will their names be invoked." Hosea 2:16-17. These two get a strong reaction -- it's only fair that you know why. I have an acquaintance who studies the stars. (He's an astronomer, not an astrologer.) He believes Yahweh's word that the stars will be for signs and seasons. He has a computer program that traces the movements of the stars and planets in the sky, through time, from any location. He makes an argument very similar to yours regarding conjunction of significant objects that could be (he says probably are) the Star of Bethlehem. I'd have to check my notes, but his timing was a little different than yours, I think. It's a very interesting study, and not to be discounted. I've asked him what he sees over Jerusalem the first week of October 2033. He thinks I'm kidding, but maybe I'll get an answer. If/when I do, I'll ask him to check Trumpets each year between now and then, to see if there are other clues to Yah's calendar. It's obvious you've put a lot of time into your studies. Yahweh loves those who seek Him -- keep seeking! And please, as others have suggested, invest some time in Yada Yahweh. If it touches you, then read Future History and The Owners Manual. My journey with Yah has come a long way in the last few years thanks to what I've learned here. The commentary is not scripture, but there's lots of scripture inside. Some conclusions I'm not sure I agree with (maybe just don't understand them yet) -- but they've been immensely helpful. I pray they help you as well. I think you'll find we have more common ground than the tone of this thread would suggest. I encourage you to stay around -- I'm glad I did. In His Love, RidesWithYah.
		http://whattheydontteachyouatchurch.com/


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Marcus		#13 Posted : Monday, October 19, 2009 4:09:59 AM(UTC)
Joined: 9/8/2009(UTC) Posts: 93 Location: NY		Hi Cindy, I agree with RidesWithYah. Quote: You may have noticed folks around here are sensitive to two things: a) Saying "He said..." when it isn't in Scripture, because there aren't very many prophets around these days, and b) Referring to Yahweh as "the Lord". The Lord is a title, it's Baal's title, and Yahweh doesn't like it. "In that day, declares Yahweh, they will call me 'my husband'; they will no longer call me 'my Lord'. I will remove the names of the Baals from their lips; no longer will their names be invoked." Hosea 2:16-17. These two get a strong reaction -- it's only fair that you know why. It's obvious you've put a lot of time into your studies. Yahweh loves those who seek Him -- keep seeking! And please, as others have suggested, invest some time in Yada Yahweh. If it touches you, then read Future History and The Owners Manual. My journey with Yah has come a long way in the last few years thanks to what I've learned here. The commentary is not scripture, but there's lots of scripture inside. Some conclusions I'm not sure I agree with (maybe just don't understand them yet) -- but they've been immensely helpful. I pray they help you as well. I think you'll find we have more common ground than the tone of this thread would suggest. I encourage you to stay around -- I'm glad I did. I think you are seeking but if you really want to find out about important celebrations look to what is clear in scripture and do read swalchy's link. It seems that you have not read the information available here within YadaYahweh because the reasonings you have proposed have been answered already. And although I find it exiting that Yahweh came and tabernacled with us I don't believe that he wanted us to really spend our time trying to figure out when the child was "born" . He had 7 celebrations that marked his ultimate plan. His passover sacrifice I believe was far more important than when he came to reside in the child. If nothing else you should take the time to read the "Called Out" Book. Then you will be on the same page and able to comment better. Quote: Philo is not tradition. He was a recorder of history, jewish history from the first century. History is followed up with facts. Trace the Exodus story and you will see the second set of tablets came down on Tishri 1. Moses was on the Mount two times, 40 days each. This is Jewish tradition. It's part of their Oral Law There are so many other more important things to study and contemplate that I suggest you move on.


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