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Offline Y.I.K.  
#1 Posted : Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:45:58 AM(UTC)
Y.I.K.
Joined: 9/17/2009(UTC)
Posts: 58
Location: Dallas, Texas

Hello all,

I have a question with regards to different manuscripts and translations.

First off, I have been told that English translations are all bad. From my current understanding, the reason is two-fold:

1.) The base or "source" manuscripts/texts were corrupted from the originals by evil or otherwise misguided men.

2.) The english translations don't even do a good job accurately translating the bad sources, so they are bad copies of bad copies.

Am I right?

Assuming I am, how do we know this? Where is the proof for this? How can we know for sure? I assume that what I have been told is right, even though I have not physically seen the documents, etc. but I would like proof of this, for confirmation. I ask this because I feel that this is right and that this is the truth, but a feeling is not good enough for me. So what books are there out there that could prove this is either true or false? I mean, like books that specifically deal with these issues and go into depth upon each of the different manuscripts or manuscript types we have, for both the OC and RC and gives the history for them and explains differences between them, etc. I have read much of YY and TOM, but they don't really go into much of the archaeological aspects of it and don't provide any corraborating documents really, so those don't really help. Now, in the case of presenting a logical, in-depth and important argument they both succeed tremendously, but I just need to see the proof of the basis of their argument. I can't come up with any holes or anything wrong with their arguments, thus I need to see if the foundation is solid, or just a lie. This would help me out enormously in my dealings with my family and with christians, who say reading something online is all well and good but where is the actual proof? Things can be faked (I know my cousin believes Bush had concentration camps in all of the major cities where he housed people who disagreed with him because he has seen pictures of it... lol...). It would help with them AND with proving this to me.

I realize there probably isn't an awesome all in one book that does this, so are there any books that go into specific detail about, for instance, the Masoretic texts and the Textus Receptus and Latin Vulgate and why they are bad/wrong or not, comparing them to older manuscripts that we have?

Also, are there any books comparing the KJV to other english translations and seeing any of the similarities between them? The reason I ask is because I have read by some people that english versions post-KJV are basically just the KJV all over again, but again, I can't just trust something someone says without historical and archaeological fact behind them. And it also makes it difficult to talk to people and convnce them of this if I am just trusting the word of someone I've never even seen, let alone met or talked with. Thank you!


O, and btw, I'm not new, I just lost my password so decided to just make a new account because I wasn't getting the email I was supposed to which contained my password.
Truth is like sandpaper. When you run across it, it can do one of 2 things: grind you down into nothing, or polish and refine you.
Offline Y.I.K.  
#2 Posted : Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:48:19 AM(UTC)
Y.I.K.
Joined: 9/17/2009(UTC)
Posts: 58
Location: Dallas, Texas

Also, is the following a good translation of the Tanakh, or is it just another false alarm? I don't really know a whole lot about manuscripts and stuff, so... yea.

Tanakh: The Holy Scriptures--The New JPS Translation According to the Traditional Hebrew Text

link to amazon description...
Truth is like sandpaper. When you run across it, it can do one of 2 things: grind you down into nothing, or polish and refine you.
Offline Matthew  
#3 Posted : Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:08:54 PM(UTC)
Matthew
Joined: 10/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,191
Man
Location: São Paulo, Brazil

Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 2 post(s)
Y.I.K.

On the radio shows Yada goes very deep into the history of Scripture, for example one such recording is called the Veracity of English Bible Translations, you can download the mp3 recording or listen to it online. Click HERE to automatically download the hour long recording.

Another good show was the talk on Romans 13:
Part 1) Show date: July, 27. Click HERE (right click, Save As) for mp3, click HERE to listen online.
Part 2) Show date: August, 03. Click HERE (right click, Save As) for mp3, click HERE to listen online.
Part 3) Show date: August, 10. Click HERE (right click, Save As) for mp3, click HERE to listen online.

However, you can read Yada's notes for the Romans 13 shows online or you can download his notes from Swalchy's first post on this LINK, if you choose to read it online Swalchy's first 3 posts cover the notes. On these shows Yada really plugs into Scripture and the history of translations, and especially how man corrupted them and for what reason they corrupted them.
Offline James  
#4 Posted : Thursday, September 17, 2009 1:57:26 PM(UTC)
James
Joined: 10/23/2007(UTC)
Posts: 2,616
Man
Location: Texas

Thanks: 5 times
Was thanked: 216 time(s) in 149 post(s)
As I understand it Y.I.K your assumptions are both accurate. Two books that Yada said where good for understanding the corruptions of our English translations are The Bible in Translation and Misquoting Jesus. He says that their research is solid even if their conclusions are errant. You have to be careful with a lot of books because the authors have their own agendas, and they often aren't truth.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#5 Posted : Thursday, September 17, 2009 11:09:28 PM(UTC)
Robskiwarrior
Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,470
Man
Location: England

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Swalchy will also be able to help here - and give a good concise explanation *pokes swalchy*

Welcome YIK - great to see ya here :)

Here is the list of resources Yada used and is using to compile Yada Yahweh.

The Dead Seas Scrolls Bible
Enhanced Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon
The Hebrew & Aramaic Lexicon of the Old Testament
Dictionary of Biblical Languages With Semantic Domains: Hebrew
Gesenius’ Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon to the Old Testament
A Concise Hebrew and Aramaic Lexicon of the Old Testament
New American Standard Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries
A Biblical Hebrew Reference Grammar
The Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon
Englishman’s Concordance
Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament
The Complete Word Study Guide of the Old Testament
The Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament
The ESV English-Hebrew Reverse Interlinear Old Testament
Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia; Werkgroep Informatica, Vrije Morphology
Zondervan’s Hebrew-English Old Testament Interlinear
Logos Scholar’s Edition Software
The Text of the Earliest New Testament Greek Manuscripts
Analytical Lexicon of the Greek New Testament
The Complete Word Study Dictionary, New Testament
Dictionary of Biblical Languages With Semantic Domains: Greek
The Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament
The Greek-English Dictionary of the New Testament
Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Christian Literature
Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament Based on Semantic Domains
A Greek-English Lexicon of the Septuagint, Revised Edition
The New American Standard Greek Dictionary
The New Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible
An Intermediate Greek-English Lexicon
The Theological Dictionary of the New Testament
The Complete Word Study Guide of the New Testament
Synonyms of the New Testament
Wuest’s Word Studies in the Greek New Testament
The New International Greek Testament Commentary
Word Studies in the New Testament
The ESV English-Greek Reverse Interlinear New Testament
The NRSV English-Greek Reverse Interlinear New Testament
Nestle-Aland Greek New Testament, with McReynolds English Interlinear
Marshall’s Parallel New Testament in Greek and English
Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary
Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Offline kp  
#6 Posted : Friday, September 18, 2009 9:03:10 AM(UTC)
kp
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

In other words, Y.I.K., it'll take a lifetime of prayerful study to get to the bottom of it, and that's still not enough time: I've been "into" the Word for over fifty years, and I still feel like "the aheader I go, the behinder I get." Still, I can't think of a more rewarding way to spend your life than studying God's Word, and learning how to make it a living reality in your daily walk.

Still, I must remind you (and me) that study is no substitute for Spirit. You can form a real relationship with Yahweh from a scrap of John's "Gospel," and you can study for a lifetime and not come to a realization of the truth of God's word. I know: I have read books and had conversations with people who have done just that: they start out uneducated and ignorant, and they end up educated and ignorant. At some point, you have to be willing to let the Ruach Qodesh show you stuff. I was raised on the ol' King James---which as you know is chock full of errors and inconsistencies, the result of translating with an agenda. And yet, although I still have the occasional epiphany, my core, fundamental understanding of the basic plan of God hasn't changed since I was in my teens. The reason is Yahweh's habit of explaining everything in twenty different places in twenty different ways. As long as you understand that He is honest, consistent, and He doesn't make stupid mistakes, then you can, with the Spirit's help, sort out the obvious problems. I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't do what you're doing, you understand: by all means, search for the most accurate, authentic resources you can. But don't forget the goal set before us: to love Yahweh and love our neighbors. Everything we do---and that includes studying---should be seen as a means to that end.

kp
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