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Offline Robert9876  
#1 Posted : Thursday, June 18, 2009 5:45:02 PM(UTC)
Robert9876
Joined: 6/9/2009(UTC)
Posts: 106
Location: Pflugerville, Texas

Hello all,

This is my first post on the forum! Woot! I have actually been trying to post for about 3 days, but apparently the forum is not compatable with the latest Mozilla Firefox? I dunno, maybe its my computer, but thats beside the point. So, my question is this: I would LIKE to believe in the 3rd door option, because I personally think it would be a more fair route than damning everyone (although, who is to say I am right? None are righteous, ESPECIALLY me, so I wouldn't consider myself nearly qualified in the whole "fairness" and "justice" departments to have a valid voice in them) who does not believe or didnt get the chance to hear about Yahushua and Yahweh to "hell." The problem I have is, well, firstly, trying to fight off and otherwise "unlearn" everything the religous community would like me to believe and has thus far "taught" me and instead seek Yahweh and His truth, and secondly it's verses like this that give me a bad feeling (although, every "feeling" I get is not necessarily from the Holy Spirit because He (or She, I don't seem to know that one either) ain't the only one in me. I also got to contend with MYSELF and my flesh all the time...)

And please don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying you guys are wrong or that I am right, I just seek to understand Yahweh, as much as i can this side of heaven. So any illumination into the meaning of this verse and into the so-called "3rd door" option I would absolutely love! I apologize if I am just misunderstanding this verse completely...


2 Thessalonians 1: 8,9

8 in flaming fire, bringing judgment on those who don't know God and on those who refuse to obey the Good News of our Lord Jesus.9 They will be punished with eternal destruction, forever separated from the Lord and from his glorious power.10 When he comes on that day, he will receive glory from his holy people—praise from all who believe. And this includes you, for you believed what we told you about him.


Thanks! I eagerly await some replies.
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Offline TRUTH B-TOLD  
#2 Posted : Thursday, June 18, 2009 7:02:05 PM(UTC)
TRUTH B-TOLD
Joined: 3/7/2008(UTC)
Posts: 133
Man
Location: USA

Shalom Robert,

Big welcome to ya, the three door option is one that shows the mercy of Yahuweh for those that don't receive the Grace of Elohim. I for one don't believe in eternal punishment for those that don't believe, but rather their seperation from Yahuweh in the form of death without any consciousness of what their fate is. The doctrine of HELL and eternal torment just isn't taught in the scriptures. Their torment is an eternal judgment of the penalty for the sins they committed which is death. The scriptures say the soul that sineth shall die. When we look at Jude 1:7 "Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." The eternal fire is another way of saying eternal judgment and that is a judgment that will never be lifted. I've said before I'm not sure about satan and the other fallen angels and not even sure the were made to live forever and the humans that worship satan and willing does the bidding of satan, I'm not sure about them either. That's where I see a third door option, an eternal hell with consciousness for them. The problem I find here is that Yahuweh is the giver and the only one who can substain life and the scriptures say that the former things he will not remember, so it seems to me that inorder for them to have some type of life, Yahuweh would have to remember them.
Offline Robert9876  
#3 Posted : Friday, June 19, 2009 4:26:59 AM(UTC)
Robert9876
Joined: 6/9/2009(UTC)
Posts: 106
Location: Pflugerville, Texas

O! That makes sense. Thank you, that was a very enlightening explanation!

Just out of curiosity... it seems to me that the only acceptable option I have now is to learn Hebrew and Greek. How would I go about doing that? And in the meantime, is there a particular English translation that isn't totally... bad? Maybe let me rephrase that... Which English translation sucks the least?

Thanks.
As of 7-22-2009, 10:19 PM US Central Time

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Offline Robskiwarrior  
#4 Posted : Friday, June 19, 2009 4:48:27 AM(UTC)
Robskiwarrior
Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,470
Man
Location: England

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Hey Robert (great name by the way)

Swalchy has actually nearly finished a fully amplified translation for the oldest greek texts of the renewed covenant writings - you can find them here: http://www.thewaytoyahweh.com I find them very useful when trying to get deeper into certain passages :)
Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Offline sirgodfrey  
#5 Posted : Friday, June 19, 2009 7:46:51 AM(UTC)
sirgodfrey
Joined: 10/2/2008(UTC)
Posts: 512
Location: North Carolina

I freakin love you guys. You are always such a big help.

Welcome to the forum Robert! \o/
Offline edStueart  
#6 Posted : Friday, June 19, 2009 10:35:27 AM(UTC)
edStueart
Joined: 10/29/2008(UTC)
Posts: 370
Location: Philadelphia

Robert9876 wrote:
Which English translation sucks the least?


I am liking The Complete Jewish Bible. The translator has a "How I Did It" introduction and states that he used the Masoretic text for the OT stuff, his reason: The copyright had just expired on a 1917 edition.

The text is quite "readable" and the typography makes it more so. (Single column, broken into paragraphs, super-scripted verse numbers.)

While it is a weak translation, I like the fact that it doesn't make my teeth grind with the wrong proper names. I can read it to my kids without having to "fix" the names as I go along.

One of the interesting things that this translation seems to bring to light is that it seems that Yeshua may have been quoting from the LXX (Septuagint), rather than what later became the Masoretic text. Interesting to think about... (But I am not going to build a whole doctrine around this issue!)

While engaging the followers of Muhammad in my "YouTube Debate Club", some guy did the "one verse pluck" and tried to show where Paul invented Christianity and did away with Torah. I had just arrived home with my newly purchased CJB, looked up the verse this joker was quoting, then found where a couple of verses later Paul says "heaven forbid!" (that Torah be done away with). I was happy to have just purchased my new "sword" and had an opportunity to use it right away!
"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free."
But first, it will piss you off!
Offline kp  
#7 Posted : Friday, June 19, 2009 11:20:41 AM(UTC)
kp
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

Hi, Robert, and welcome to the forum. The whole three doors thing was a total epiphany to me when I was first confronted with it---not because it's contrary to what we know of Yahweh's character, but because (as you've discovered) our English translations, with which we're so familiar, don't seem to recognize it. How could I have been wrong about something so fundamental for half a century? (And having come to terms with the truth of the matter, what else might I have missed?)

Once you get over the shock of realizing that our English translations are skewed (often by translators with an agenda that doesn't resemble God's), you're well on the way to discovering truths you may have missed your whole life. I'll give you another example in the verses you quoted. The word so unfortunately translated "vengeance" is based on the Greek verb ekdikeo. Its primary meaning is "to give justice, to grant a fair verdict." It can lead to either punishment or acquital. But how (you ask) can it lead to acquital if it happens "in flaming fire?" Good question, one that explains (when you track down the imagery) what the Great White Throne "judgment" is all about. In the end, it's a stunning confirmation of the three doors theory, because at the GWT, the question of guilt has been decided long before the "judgment" begins. And everybody who's not found in the Lamb's book of life at the GWT is sent to the "lake of fire," which is where the separation takes place. (Remember, fire is an agent of separation and purification.) The question, then, is "What is being decided---who is being separated from whom---at the great white throne?" The saved aren't even there---we're never condemned for anything, ever. The dead are being separated from the damned at the GWT: door #2 is being differentiated from door #3. It's the only possible explanation.

You'll find that most of the time, the words translated judged, avenged, condemned, and so forth (both in Greek and Hebrew) actually carry a more accurate connotation of judicial decision, of separation of one group from another (which if you think about it, is the primary definition of holiness). We tend to see the worst in such words because we know we're guilty. But to see Yahweh as vindictive and eager for revenge is to ignore grace. If we choose to live under His love, He does not see us as guilty. (That's door number one.) If we ally ourselves with the spirit of the adversary---if we choose to become Yahweh's active enemies---then we have chosen damnation (door #3---something that does exist and is plainly described in Scripture). But what of those victims, sleepers, and careless who choose nothing at all? Will God torment them forever for being in the wrong place at the wrong time? No. They have chosen no eternal destination, so they will be given neither heaven nor hell---that's door #2: nothingness.

I don't know if you've stumbled across it yet, Robert, but you may find my chapter 29 in Future History (www.FutureTruth.net) to be a less technical (and perhaps more accessible) treatise on the three doors than Yada's work in Yada Yahweh. If you haven't read it, it may help your understanding of the concept. But with both of us, it all boils down to what the words actually mean---not how they've been twisted by translators with an agenda.

kp
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