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Offline Yada  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, January 6, 2009 6:59:24 PM(UTC)
Yada
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 3,537

I was listening to a Muslim `lecture` on Paltalk in which the presenter was claiming that Deuteronomy 18:18-22 was actually speaking of Mohammed, not Yahushua. He also cited the use of the word `Prophet` to prove that `Jesus` could not have been divine

Ken deals with this in his chapter 15 of Future History - `The Muslim Connection:`

Quote:
You see, Muhammad apparently got wind of Moses’ prophecy concerning a coming prophet, the Messiah, and tried to convince the Jews of Yathrib that he was the fulfillment of that promise: “I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him. And it shall be that whoever will not hear My words, which He speaks in My name, I will require it of him.” Of course, Muhammad conveniently ignored the rest of the prophecy: “But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die. And if you say in your heart, ‘How shall we know the word which Yahweh has not spoken?’—when a prophet speaks in the name of Yahweh, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which Yahweh has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.” (Deuteronomy 18:18-22)


I just wondered if anyone knows what the original word used for `Prophet` was and could amplify it here?
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Offline Matthew  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, January 6, 2009 11:40:51 PM(UTC)
Matthew
Joined: 10/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,191
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Location: São Paulo, Brazil

Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)
Yada puts it like this:

1) A nabi is a "prophetic spokesman for God." Source: http://yadayahweh.com/Yada_Yahweh_Salvation.YHWH

2) ...preacher (nabi – prophet, one who proclaims the message of a god or God)... Source: http://yadayahweh.com/Ya...Going_Astray_Chesed.YHWH

3) ...prophet (nabiy - one who through inspiration predicts the future; from naba', one who is under the influence of the divine spirit) Source: the passage below.

Now consider this section from YY-Salvation-Chapter 3-Chadash:

Quote:
"But Yahuweh your Elohiym has not granted you permission to do (nathan) so." (Deuteronomy 18:14) After telling the Levites that poligious mumbo jumbo was an abomination, Yahuweh told these Miqra' officials the same thing He had shared with Abraham. "Show some integrity and abstain from fellowship with the wicked; be upright, sincere, and truthful with me." Then God reminded us that He dislikes false prophets, religious and political leaders, so much, He won't tolerate them in His presence, near His people, or in His land. They will have no place in Yahweh's eternal family. If you are going to go out and explore, wiper your feet before you come home.

With the audience designated, the purpose established, and Yahuweh's preferences clearly articulated, we arrive at the Messianic proclamation that led us to this Mosaic sermon. What follows is God's plan, His solution to human corruptions: "Yahuweh your Elohiym will raise up for you and will cause to abide with you (quwm - come unto the scene, stand upright, establish, confirm and arise as) a prophet (nabiy - one who through inspiration predicts the future; from naba', one who is under the influence of the divine spirit) similar to (kemow - like or according to for the purpose of comparison in a point in time; from ken, to be the upright one, a true and honest pillar, and kuwn, to be manifest, established, appointed, confirmed, and fashioned after) M/me, from your center or midst (qereb - womb; from qarab, one who becomes present, approaches and draws near), from your brethren (ach - blood relatives, brothers, kin, or countryman). Listen to, receive, and proclaim (shama' - pay attention to, agree with, understand, summon, heed and obey) Him." (Deuteronomy 18:15)

There are several ways to translate this sentence because in paleo-Hebrew, punctuation and capitalization did not exist and sentence order was not always indicative of who or what was being described. So Yahuweh could have been telling the Levites that the one who would speak by inspiration would be a prophet after Moses, a Jew like Moses, or both. Yahushua met these criteria. However "me" could just as easily have been "Me." Throughout this sermon, Moses was speaking the words Yahweh inspired him to say. If the speaker is Yahweh (as it clearly is in the next verse) then we're being told that the Messiah will be fashioned after Yahweh - that He will be a manifestation of God, Himself. Yahshua met this criterion as well.

The more profound interpretation can also be drawn from interlinears, which put the Hebrew words in the order they were spoken. "Yahuweh your Elohiym will raise up for you an inspired prophet, from among you [thus a man], from your brothers [thus a Yahuwdy], similar to (kemow) Me. I will come unto the scene, stand upright, establish, confirm and arise (quwm) for you Yahuweh." In this case, the Messiah is not only a manifestation of Yahuweh in the body of a Yahuwdy; He is Yahuweh abiding in the midst of mankind.

This is further confirmed by the Dictionary of Biblical Languages. It references kelal, rather than kemow in this passage. It then defines kelal as "one who completes, succeeding in the endeavor, rebuilding and restoring." That is Immanu'el's job description.

The verse ends with these words: "Him you shall listen to carefully, receive and proclaim." Returning to the interlinear, we are confronted with a more startling truth. It says: "The God of you, to Him you must listen." Yahushua is the human manifestation of God. Yahuweh is saying that He Himself is the one being predicted and the One who must be acknowledged.

If "me" is "Me," and thus invocative of God in the flesh, the verse which follows suddenly makes sense. According to the Torah, the Yahudim had complained that in His undiminished Spiritual state, the brilliance of Yahuweh's light and His piercing voice were too much for them - overwhelming them, frightening them to death. So Yahweh listened to their grievance and decided to tone Himself down, to expose Himself and to speak to men as a man.

"According to all you inquired about and requested (sha'al - earnestly desired and prayed for) of Yahuweh your God near Horeb (from harab, desolate, dried up, wasted, and lifeless) in the day of the assembly, saying, 'Let me not hear again the thunderous voice (qowl) of Yahuweh, our God, nor let me see this great (gadowl - enormous in magnitude and extent) fire (esh - flame, light, blaze, or supernatural theophany) again ('owd - any longer), lest I die.' Yahuweh said to me: 'They have successfully and rightfully (yatab) spoken. I will come onto the scene, exist substantively with, standing upright and rising up before (quwm - be established and confirmed, ratifying and fulfilling, standing before) them an inspired prophet (nabiy) from among their brothers as Myself in a point in time (kemow), and will put (nathan - give, set, commit, entrust, deliver) My Word (dabar - advice, account, statements, promises, declaration, communication, commandments, decrees, message and council) in His mouth (peh - speech and spirit), and He shall say to them all that I direct and instruct (tsavah - command, enjoin, authorize, and appoint)." (Deuteronomy 18:16-18)

God has said that He will qowl: "come onto the scene, existing in a substantive way, standing to confirm, ratifying and fulfilling" all that had been written, ultimately "standing upright" on Mount Moriah's pole for our salvation, only to "rise" again before our eyes in the resurrection. Qowl describes Immanu'el/God-With-Us, and it defines the Messiah's redemptive mission. It also embodies the meaning of 'Yshayah'el/God-Existing-As-Man, the name which led us to this passage in the first place. The Upright One would come as a prophet, sharing Yahuweh's words. Because men complained that Yahuweh's full radiance overwhelmed their senses, God would, and now has, manifest Himself in the form most agreeable to men: man.

Yahushua's message was Yahuweh's message because Yahushua is and was the human manifestation of Yahuweh. It is why Yahshua said that He did not come to nullify the Law but to confirm and fulfill it.

Considering this, it takes a pretty puny human mind to think this prophecy depicts an Arab speaking on behalf of a dark spirit named Allah - of a man who was ignorant and illiterate, a sexual pervert, bloodthirsty pirate and terrorist who spit on Yahuweh's Commandments and who went to war, raping, plundering, enslaving and murdering His chosen people. But, despite all evidence to the contrary, this is the verse upon which Islam draws it credibility, its connection with the Torah.
Offline Yada  
#3 Posted : Monday, January 26, 2009 9:16:01 PM(UTC)
Yada
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 3,537

Speaking of "The Prophet," I found this short video on YouTube: islam for Kids: mohammed It shows how Mohammed dealt with a woman who confessed that she was an adultress. If memory serves, Yahushua dealt with this same situation a little differently...hmm.

You can watch it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2n5NHt8YWpQ
If you'd like to join the YY Study Group room on Paltalk - just click here. The lockword is: yadayahweh
You can download the free software here.
Hope to see everyone on Paltalk!
WARNING: Do not give out personal information (name, address, etc.) to anyone on Paltalk - ever!
Offline edStueart  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, January 27, 2009 2:38:55 AM(UTC)
edStueart
Joined: 10/29/2008(UTC)
Posts: 370
Location: Philadelphia

Yada wrote:
Speaking of "The Prophet," I found this short video on YouTube: islam for Kids: mohammed It shows how Mohammed dealt with a woman who confessed that she was an adultress. If memory serves, Yahushua dealt with this same situation a little differently...hmm.

You can watch it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2n5NHt8YWpQ


We've got a TTOI episode that compares Muhammad's handling of that situation to Yahushua's solution.

It will be posted in a couple of weeks, it will be a barn burner!

(Just to be clear, "barn burner" is a figure of speech, followers of YHWH are not supposed to actually burn barns.)
"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free."
But first, it will piss you off!
Offline Matthew  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, January 27, 2009 4:16:59 AM(UTC)
Matthew
Joined: 10/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,191
Man
Location: São Paulo, Brazil

Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)
Here is the passage from http://www.thenoblequran.com/sps/smm/

Sahih Muslim Book 017 Number 4208 wrote:
'Abdullah b. Buraida reported on the authority of his father that Ma'iz b. Malik al-Aslami came to Allaah's Messenger (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) and said: Allaah's Messenger, I have wronged myself; I have committed adultery and I earnestly desire that you should purify me. He turned him away. On the following day, he (Ma'iz) again came to him and said: Allaah's Messenger, I have committed adultery. Allaah's Messenger (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) turned him away for the second time, and sent him to his people saying: Do you know if there is anything wrong with his mind. They denied of any such thing in him and said: We do not know him but as a wise good man among us, so far as we can judge. He (Ma'iz) came for the third time, and he (the Prophet) sent him as he had done before. He asked about him and they informed him that there was nothing wrong with him or with his mind. When it was the fourth time, a ditch was dug for him and he (the Prophet) pronounced judg- ment about him and he wis stoned. He (the narrator) said: There came to him (the Prophet) a woman from Ghamid and said: Allaah's Messenger, I have committed adultery, so purify me. He (the Prophet) turned her away. On the following day she said: Allaah's Messenger, Why do you turn me away? Perhaps, you turn me away as you turned away Ma'iz. By Allaah, I have become pregnant. He said: Well, if you insist upon it, then go away until you give birth to (the child). When she was delivered she came with the child (wrapped) in a rag and said: Here is the child whom I have given birth to. He said: Go away and suckle him until you wean him. When she had weaned him, she came to him (the Prophet) with the child who was holding a piece of bread in his hand. She said: Allaah's Prophet, here is he as I have weaned him and he eats food. He (the Prophet) entrusted the child to one of the Muslims and then pronounced punishment. And she was put in a ditch up to her chest and he commanded people and they stoned her. Khalid b Walid came forward with a stone which he flung at her head and there spurted blood on the face of Khalid and so he abused her. Allaah's Prophet (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) heard his (Khalid's) curse that he had huried upon her. Thereupon he (the Prophet) said: Khalid, be gentle. By Him in Whose Hand is my life, she has made such a repentance that even if a wrongful tax-collector were to repent, he would have been forgiven. Then giving command regarding her, he prayed over her and she was buried.


It makes one sick!

But while trying to initially search for the whole passage using Google I came across the phrases such as "This hadith has been transmitted on the authority of Yahya b. Abu Kathir" where the passage should've been, for example http://www.usc.edu/schoo...dith/muslim/017.smt.html What does this mean?

Ed, let us know when that video comes out, I would like to watch it!
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