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Offline sirgodfrey  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, December 9, 2008 8:01:44 AM(UTC)
sirgodfrey
Joined: 10/2/2008(UTC)
Posts: 512
Location: North Carolina

I know that this site uses, from what i understand, the oldest manuscripts from which the authors translate and such. My question is what exactly are the oldest known manuscripts of the scriptures, and are there any available copies anywhere at all?

also, what are the differences, if any, of the oldest manuscripts as opposed to some that arent as old? how did you guys get your hands on them (oldest known manuscripts)? and how do we know what manuscripts are older than others?

thanks. your brother in the MessiYah.
Offline kp  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, December 9, 2008 8:32:49 AM(UTC)
kp
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

Good question, sirgodfrey. Stephen Walch ("swalchy") is the real expert here, but I'll give you the quickie answer. The oldest Hebrew texts we have are those that were found, beginning in 1948, in Qumran: the "Dead Sea Scrolls." The publication I use to examine them (not being a Hebrew scholar) is The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible: The Oldest Known Bible Translated for the First Time into English, copyright 1999 by Martin Albegg, Jr, Peter Flint, and Eugene Ulrich. (Harper Collins)

The New Testament (Greek) manuscripts copied before Constantine's time (early 4th century) are the most reliable. These have been complied under the collection: The Text of the Earliest New Testament Greek ManuscriptsEdited by Philip W. Comfort and David P. Barrett. I use an electronic copy that plugs in to my Logos software. The data as provided there is: Comfort, P. W., & Barrett, D. P. (2001). The text of the earliest New Testament Greek manuscripts (A corrected, enlarged ed. of The complete text of the earliest New Testament manuscripts). Wheaton, Ill.: Tyndale House. These are in Greek, not a translation into English.

kp
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, December 9, 2008 8:33:23 AM(UTC)
Robskiwarrior
Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,470
Man
Location: England

Hey :D

This is in relation to the oldest Greek (New Testament)

http://www.thewaytoyahuweh.com/nt_tran/begin.htm wrote:


The Way to Yahuweh

Texts behind this Translation

For this translation of the Renewed Testament, I have relied on the oldest known manuscripts of the Renewed Testament currently found by archaeologists. As a base text, I have used the transcription of the 69 Greek Manuscripts dated between 50 and 300 CE as transcribed by leading papyrologists, Philip Comfort and David Barret in their book entitled The Text Of The Earliest NT Greek Manuscripts, 2nd Edition. Secondly, I have also relied on the Greek text of the Renewed Testament from the Critical Edition of the Novum Testamentuum Graece, 27th Edition. The manuscripts dating between 50 - 300 CE have been compared to this Critical text, and any changes have been translated, but not referenced.* The Greek New Testament Edition of that by Desiderius Erasmus Roterodamus, now known as the Textus Receptus has been ignored completely in this translation, and will never be considered for use. For missing and/or not fully recovered verses in the base Greek manuscripts, other, slightly less older Greek Manuscripts have been considered. The Codex’s named Codex Sinaiticus, Alexandrinus, Vaticanus, and Ephraemi, have also been taken into account - mainly for their Nomina Sacra usage rather than their Greek text.


Manuscripts dated between 50 and 300 CE

The follow manuscripts are transcribed, but not translated, in Philip Comfort and David Barret’s book entitled The Text Of The Earliest NT Greek Manuscripts:

P1, P4, P5, P9, P12, P13, P15, P16, P17, P18, P20, P22, P23, P24, P27, P28, P29, P30, P32, P35, P37, P38, P39, P40, P45, P46, P47, P48, P49, P50, P52, P53, P64, P65, P66, P67, P69, P70, P72, P75, P77, P78, P80, P86, P87, P90, P91, P92, P95, P98, P100, P101, P102, P103, P104, P106, P107, P108, P109, P110, P111, P113, P114, P115, P. Antinoopolis 2.54, 0162, 0171, 0189 and 0220.

This can be purchased from Amazon(UK), or as part of the Logos Original Languages Suite.


The oldest Hebrew, as far as I know is the Dead Sea Scrolls. Whether you can get this as a Hebrew text I am not sure, Swalchy or someone else would have to take up the rest of that question for a full answer.. I have a copy of a translated to english version though :)

Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Offline Matthew  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, December 9, 2008 9:07:41 AM(UTC)
Matthew
Joined: 10/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,191
Man
Location: São Paulo, Brazil

Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)
kp wrote:
The publication I use to examine them (not being a Hebrew scholar) is The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible: The Oldest Known Bible Translated for the First Time into English, copyright 1999 by Martin Albegg, Jr, Peter Flint, and Eugene Ulrich. (Harper Collins)

I notice on the Harper Collins website they have published the introduction to the DSS Bible online, and they "have been consistent in translating the Divine Name by following the practice of the Revised Standard Version and the New Revised Standard Version (i.e., the LORD for the Hebrew YHWH, and the LORD God for YHWH Elohim)."

Is there a full (and hopefully free) online version that I can use for software such as E-Sword?
Offline sirgodfrey  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, December 9, 2008 5:48:27 PM(UTC)
sirgodfrey
Joined: 10/2/2008(UTC)
Posts: 512
Location: North Carolina

i thank you all so much for your informative replies.

swalchy, i like "SGF"

it would be cool if everyone here referred to me as "SGF" henceforth...
Offline Heretic Steve  
#6 Posted : Friday, March 6, 2009 7:15:53 AM(UTC)
Heretic Steve
Joined: 9/26/2007(UTC)
Posts: 258
Location: ohio

So if the DDS are the oldest manuscripts, then just what is the Samaritan Pentateuch compiled circa 600-400 bce that YY mentions?
If not us, who? If not now, when?
Offline Heretic Steve  
#7 Posted : Saturday, March 7, 2009 11:29:24 AM(UTC)
Heretic Steve
Joined: 9/26/2007(UTC)
Posts: 258
Location: ohio

Thx Swalchy, (Dern it. I meant DSS, not DDS. Duh...).
If not us, who? If not now, when?
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