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Offline Walt  
#1 Posted : Sunday, November 2, 2008 4:37:38 AM(UTC)
Walt
Joined: 10/26/2008(UTC)
Posts: 374
Man

I notice that Deuteronomy 22:5 is used by some denominations / assemblies (many Messianic ones) to forbid women from wearing pants, I did a thorough study on this verse and found it greatly mistranslated.

Upon examination this verse can not be used to control how women dress.

(Deuteronomy 22:5)
“A woman does not wear1961 that which pertains 3627 to a man,1397, nor does a man put on3847 a woman’s
garment8071, for whoever does this is an abomination to Yahweh your Elohim.


Look at the words I’ve underlined

H1961
hâyâh
BDB Definition:
Quote:
to be, become, come to pass, exist, happen, fall out


STRONGS:
Quote:
A primitive root (compare H1933); to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary): - beacon, X altogether, be (-come, accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), continue, do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-) self, require, X use.


Looking at all the verses hâyâh is used, wear is not a correct translation, and this verse is
the only place it is translated as such, none of the other verses even come close to
meaning wear or put on as in clothing.

Look how the word means as it is used in The Creation:

(Genesis 1:2) And the earth was1961 without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of Elohim moved upon the face of the waters.

(Genesis 1:3) And Elohim said, Let there be1961 light: and there was1961 light.

(Genesis 1:5) And Elohim called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were1961 the first day.

(Genesis 1:6) And Elohim said, Let there be1961 a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let1961 it divide the waters from the waters.

(Genesis 1:7) And Elohim made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was1961 so.

(Genesis 1:8) And Elohim called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were1961 the second day.

Also look how that word is used and what it means in it’s other uses in Deuteronomy 22:

2 “And if your brother is not near you, or if you do not know him, then you shall bring it to your own house, and it shall be1961 with you until your brother seeks it, then you shall return it to him.

19 and fine him one hundred pieces of silver and give them to the father of the young woman, because he has brought an evil name on a maiden of Yisra’ĕl. And she is to be1961 his wife, he is not allowed to put her away all his days.

20 “But if the matter is1961 true, that the girl was not found a maiden,

23 “When a girl who is a maiden is1961 engaged to a husband, and a man finds her in the city and lies with her,

29 then the man who lay with her shall give to the girl’s father fifty pieces of silver, and she is to be1961 his wife because he has humbled her. He is not allowed to put her away all his days.


If Yahweh meant this part of the verse to mean wear or put on clothing why wasn’t
H3847 used like in the 2nd half of the verse?

H3847
lâbash / lâbêsh
BDB Definition:
Quote:
to dress, wear, clothe, put on clothing, be clothed


STRONGS:
Quote:
A primitive root; properly wrap around, that is, (by implication) to put on a garment or clothe (oneself, or another), literally or figuratively: - (in) apparel, arm, array (self), clothe (self), come upon, put (on, upon), wear.





Look at the next underlined word:

H3627
kelîy
BDB Definition:
Quote:
1) article, vessel, implement, utensil
1a) article, object (general)
1b) utensil, implement, apparatus, vessel
1b1) implement (of hunting or war)
1b2) implement (of music)
1b3) implement, tool (of labour)
1b4) equipment, yoke (of oxen)
1b5) utensils, furniture
1c) vessel, receptacle (general)
1d) vessels (boats) of paper-reed

STRONGS:
Quote:
From H3615; something prepared, that is, any apparatus (as an implement, utensil, dress, vessel or weapon): - armour ([-bearer]), artillery, bag, carriage, + furnish, furniture, instrument, jewel, that is made of, X one from another, that which pertaineth, pot, + psaltery, sack, stuff, thing, tool, vessel, ware, weapon, + whatsoever
.

Total KJV Occurrences:
Quote:
vessels,132 instruments,37 vessel,34 jewels,21 armourbearer,18 weapons,17 stuff,14 thing,11 armour,10 furniture,7 weapon,4 whatsoever,3 bag,2 carriage,2 instrument,2 artillery,1 carriages,1 furnish,1 jewel,1 made,1 one,1 pot,1 psalteries,1 psaltery,1 tool,1 wares,1


No place else in Scripture is this word used to mean clothing.
Again, if Yahweh meant this part of the verse to mean women wearing pants, why didn’t He use the word He used in the 2nd half of the verse?

H8071

śimlâh
BDB Definition:
Quote:
wrapper, mantle, covering garment, garments, clothes, raiment, a cloth

STRONGS:
Quote:
Perhaps by permutation for the feminine of H5566 (through the idea of a cover assuming the shape of the object beneath); a dress, especially a mantle: - apparel, cloth (-es, -ing), garment, raiment




Let’s look at the next underlined word:

H1397

geber
BDB Definition:
Quote:
man, strong man, warrior (emphasizing strength or ability to fight)


STRONGS:
Quote:
From H1396; properly a valiant man or warrior; generally a person simply: - every one, man, X mighty.


This word does not imply man in general terms, but a warrior. If it were meant to mean man in general wouldn’t Yahweh have used:

H376
'îysh
BDB Definition:
Quote:
1) man
1a) man, male (in contrast to woman, female)


So with a word study of this verse, it would be more correctly interpreted as:

Woman shall not be/become a vessel/tool/thing/instrument/weapon of a warrior/valiant man
neither shall a warrior/valiant man put on a woman’s garment,
for whoever does this is an abomination to Yahweh your Elohim.


I believe this whole verse is a command to men, and is wrongly translated and used as a command to how women dress.

Offline Robskiwarrior  
#2 Posted : Sunday, November 2, 2008 4:50:02 AM(UTC)
Robskiwarrior
Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,470
Man
Location: England

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Walt, what an absolutly awesome study! Thats what we like to see here :D It makes so much more sense as well now :)
Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#3 Posted : Sunday, November 2, 2008 6:09:25 AM(UTC)
Robskiwarrior
Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,470
Man
Location: England

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Swalchy wrote:
...and a man is certainly not to clothe himself with a womans dress.


Damnit...
Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Offline sirgodfrey  
#4 Posted : Sunday, November 2, 2008 7:55:52 AM(UTC)
sirgodfrey
Joined: 10/2/2008(UTC)
Posts: 512
Location: North Carolina

simply amazing. great job Walt. :)
Offline Matthew  
#5 Posted : Sunday, November 2, 2008 12:57:20 PM(UTC)
Matthew
Joined: 10/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,191
Man
Location: São Paulo, Brazil

Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)
Nice going Walt!

Swalchy wrote:
I would translate the Greek as, in English word order: The male instruments of war shall not be upon a woman, neither shall a man dress himself in the long flowing robe of a woman, for all who do these things are detestable to Yahuweh your God

Here's one passage of Scripture protecting women yet again. Isn't Yah perfect in every way?!

So much for Islamic female suicide bombers. I feel pity for them, if they were on this side of the fence their God would protect them, but on their side Satan only wants death and destruction.!
Offline lassie1865  
#6 Posted : Monday, November 3, 2008 11:07:20 AM(UTC)
lassie1865
Joined: 2/18/2008(UTC)
Posts: 309
Woman
Location: Colorado

Greetings,

Would it more specifically mean:

It is designed that a WOMAN should not go to war nor be forced to defend, and the MAN must not pretend to be a woman (by disguising himself as a woman by wearing a woman's clothes) in order to hide from his obligation to go to war/defend?

Lassie1865
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