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Offline sirgodfrey  
#1 Posted : Friday, October 31, 2008 8:07:47 PM(UTC)
sirgodfrey
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Location: North Carolina

Rom 8:34 Who [is] he that condemneth? [It is] Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Many translations take out the again in the above passage. I am wondering if someone has knowledge concerning Yahushua rising "again." It is very interesting to me. Someone was sharing his view, and said that because the Lamb "was slain before the foundation of the world" that it means He rose "again." He told me that Yahweh basically provided the atonement for man, in eternity past, before anything was created, and that is how the "Son" came to be. He gave me the scripture stating that what made the Son the Son was the resurrection from the grave/death.

Rom 1:4 And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Would like further insight if any can be provided. Thank you.

Peace to all...
Offline Matthew  
#2 Posted : Saturday, November 1, 2008 2:09:26 AM(UTC)
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This one can easily be solved if they just did a search using the phrase "foundation of the world" because it will pick up many phrases in Scripture to what Yahuweh had already planned since before He created the world, things like prepared for us to inherit His reign, names being written in the Book of Life, being the Sacrifice for us, etc.

In other words Yah planned everything and knew everything that would happen before He created the Universe.

So slain twice? No! Only slain once, since He had planned to be slain for us since before the foundation of the world.
Offline sirgodfrey  
#3 Posted : Saturday, November 1, 2008 5:44:35 AM(UTC)
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much appreciated my dudes. i was scratching my head on this one. before the foundation of the world... yeah, i was thinking it was speaking of the plan. the "again" in the other verse really through me for a loop though.
Offline sirgodfrey  
#4 Posted : Saturday, November 1, 2008 12:51:56 PM(UTC)
sirgodfrey
Joined: 10/2/2008(UTC)
Posts: 512
Location: North Carolina

Quote:
It's why you shouldn't listen to anyone who quotes the KJV - It's more or less going to be wrong information :)


im still learning :)
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#5 Posted : Saturday, November 1, 2008 3:03:23 PM(UTC)
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sirgodfrey wrote:
im still learning :)


Meee toooo :D
Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Offline TRUTH B-TOLD  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, November 5, 2008 4:07:24 PM(UTC)
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Location: USA


I've suggested before that "God die twice", I believe the scriptures bare this out. I understand that the KJV of the bible has many funny translations in it, but you would almost have to say that they got everything wrong. How do we know if the "again" is not suppose to be there and why did they put it there? Did the writers of the KJV think that God died twice? I don't think that any church at that time taught that he did. And if the "again" is not suppose to be there, will we say the same about Heb.13:20

"Now the God of peace, that brought AGAIN FROM THE DEAD our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,"

Then we have to ask ourselves, how did Yahshua become the BEGOTTEN Son of Yahweh? Will we say that Yahshua always existed as the Son of Yahweh, all the way through eternity past, never really was BEGOTTEN? Or are we to believe that in John 3:16 the "BEGOTTEN" was also add as was the two "AGAIN" in the other verses? Or does the word BEGOTTEN not really mean that he was actually begotten (born from). I know that Yahshua wasn't actually seperated from Yahweh, so the begotten is not a seperation from, but rather another side or character of the original (Yahweh).

We also have the "FROM" in Rev.13:8 "...the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." Is this the forordaining of a plan that Yahweh foreknow and predestine to happen some time in the future. It could be viewed that way, as the "FROM" is to be considered a going away from one point to another. So, it could be from the point of the laying down of the foundation of the world to the time that Yahshau died at Calvary. Or it could also be from the laying down of foundation of the world back to before the foundation was laid. I believe that when we look at other scriptures that the latter should be strongly considered.
We can look at Rev.17:8 "...whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world," Is this saying that the names of those that were saved were written in the book of life sometime in the future, going away from the from the foundation of the world? Or is this saying that the names of those that were saved were written in the book of life going away from the foundation of the world back before creation?

We can also look at Heb.4:3 "...if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. What work was finished? Is it the completion of all of creation or is this speaking of the work of salvation (taken on of sins and judgment of Yahweh) done before the creation of the world?

Then we have 1Peter 1:20 "Who verily was foreordained BEFORE the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you," Here we have BEFORE and not FROM the foundation of the world. Is the word from suppose to be there or did Yahweh in his mercy give us this so that we may know that the direction from the foundation of the world in the other verses is going away from the foundation to BEFORE creation.

We also have Rom.1:4 "And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: Is this saying that Yahshua was declared (marked out, ordained, determined) to be the Son of God by or through the RESURRECTION. Is it by the resurrection that Yahshua became the the firstborn from the dead and the firstborn of every creature spoken of in Colossians chpt.1:15,18? Yahshua could only be the firstborn of every creature and of the dead if this resurrection was before the world was created. Yahshua was never actually born seperated from Yahweh, so these verses have to be speaking of the resurrection of the dead. If so, how can he be the firstborn of every creature when Adam and everyone else that came into exists before Yahshua became flesh have already been born. If it's speaking of being firstborn from the dead at the cross on Calvary, what are we think of the resurrection of Lazarus from the dead and how could it be that Moses and Elias were on the mountain when Yahshua took Peter, James, and John there in Matt.17:2. We know that Yahshua had not been born from the dead at that time or was he? We know that Yahshua told Nicodemus in John 3:2 "...Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." So was Moses dead and born again making him to have been born from the dead before Yahshua? God forbid, we can know that Yahshua was the firstborn from the dead because he was the Lamb slain from (before) the foundation of the world.

I know that through this I asked alot of questions and I believe that the scriptures answers them, but if someone would like to go through them and shed more light on them for me, I would appreciate it. God bless:)
Offline TRUTH B-TOLD  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, November 5, 2008 5:15:06 PM(UTC)
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Hi Swalchy,

What I'm trying to figure out or uderstand is HOW do we know whats suppose to be in the scriptures, where do you go to see the manuscripts that the bible was written from. Although I appreciate your amplification of the verse, what am I to check it against.

I know that there are manuscripts out there, would mind sharing with me how I can view them. And can you give me your understanding of how and when Yahshua was begotten. Thank you for your reply.
Offline In His Name  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, November 5, 2008 8:15:06 PM(UTC)
In His Name
Joined: 9/7/2008(UTC)
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Hi Truth,

You are correct to question. That is the Rauch haQadosh leading you to Yahweh. Follow Her.

Yada Yahweh has many of your answers, even for the questions you have not yet asked. (voice of experience)

Below is the list of references that Yada uses and recommends:

Quote:
While God’s words were inspired, while most of them have been preserved and are known, translations are strictly human affairs. As such, I do not claim that my Scriptural presentations are perfect, only that they are as accurate and complete as I can render them using the oldest manuscripts and best research tools. For this purpose I have relied upon:

* The Dead Seas Scrolls Bible
* Enhanced Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon
* The Hebrew & Aramaic Lexicon of the Old Testament
* Dictionary of Biblical Languages With Semantic Domains: Hebrew
* Gesenius’ Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon to the Old Testament
* A Concise Hebrew and Aramaic Lexicon of the Old Testament
* New American Standard Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries
* A Biblical Hebrew Reference Grammar
* The Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon
* Englishman’s Concordance
* Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament
* The Complete Word Study Guide of the Old Testament

* The Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament

* The ESV English-Hebrew Reverse Interlinear Old Testament
* Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia; Werkgroep Informatica, Vrije Morphology
* Zondervan’s Hebrew-English Old Testament Interlinear
* Logos Scholar’s Edition Software
* The Text of the Earliest New Testament Greek Manuscripts

* Analytical Lexicon of the Greek New Testament
* The Complete Word Study Dictionary, New Testament
* Dictionary of Biblical Languages With Semantic Domains: Greek
* The Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament
* The Greek-English Dictionary of the New Testament
* Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Christian Literature
* Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament Based on Semantic Domains
* A Greek-English Lexicon of the Septuagint, Revised Edition
* The New American Standard Greek Dictionary
* The New Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible

* An Intermediate Greek-English Lexicon
* The Theological Dictionary of the New Testament
* The Complete Word Study Guide of the New Testament
* Synonyms of the New Testament
* Wuest’s Word Studies in the Greek New Testament
* The New International Greek Testament Commentary
* Word Studies in the New Testament
* The ESV English-Greek Reverse Interlinear New Testament
* The NRSV English-Greek Reverse Interlinear New Testament
* Nestle-Aland Greek New Testament, with McReynolds English Interlinear
* Marshall’s Parallel New Testament in Greek and English
* Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary

Therefore, in Yada Yahweh, you will find an accurate and complete translation of each Hebrew and Greek word, all rendered in accordance with the definitions and synonyms provided by the world’s most distinguished linguistic scholars. I most always have a dozen or more scholastic tomes open, surrounding me on revolving Jeffersonian carousels, and another score of research tools electronically linked to the text via Logos interactive software. It’s a lot of information, so recognize that in the quest to be thorough and accurate, fluidity will suffer. Scripture will not roll off the tongue in familiar word patterns. But you will know the truth—as God revealed it.
“Because he clings to Me, is joined to Me, loves and delights in Me, desires Me, therefore I will deliver him, carry him safely away, cause him to escape from harm making him inaccessible and strong, and delivering him safely to heaven, because he has known, observed, cared for, recognized, instructed and advised others to use, designated, acknowledged, discerned, answered in, My name, authority, character, report, mark, and nature." Psalm 91:14
Offline TRUTH B-TOLD  
#9 Posted : Thursday, November 6, 2008 3:22:21 AM(UTC)
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Joined: 3/7/2008(UTC)
Posts: 133
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Location: USA

Thanks Swalchy,

I've try googling the Greek and it's always lead me to sites that I can't understand because I can not read Greek. So, I will try the site that you reference, and I always use your amplifiction of the scriptures and they are a big help to me. But then again I need to understand how you came to your interpretation of a word. It's not that I don't trust you, I just need to see it for myself. I do hope that you will still go through my last post and give your thoughts on some of the questions that I raised because your opinion is respected and much appreciated by me. Thanks again and God bless.
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