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Offline Garrett  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, September 23, 2008 3:34:51 PM(UTC)
Garrett
Joined: 1/28/2008(UTC)
Posts: 41
Location: Idaho

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.


We all know this verse well, we all read it every year on Christmas cards, and we as followers point to its Messianic significance.

I don't doubt it at all, but I was wondering something....

When was the goverment on His shoulders?

Shalom,
Garrett-
It is the glory of Elohim (God) to conceal a matter, but the honour of melekim (kings) to search it out.
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, September 23, 2008 10:59:41 PM(UTC)
Robskiwarrior
Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,470
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Location: England

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Garrett wrote:

When was the goverment on His shoulders?


Or when WILL it be on His shoulders :)
Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Offline bitnet  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, September 24, 2008 2:56:22 AM(UTC)
bitnet
Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,120

Yep, it was on His shoulders when He created the universe and everything else, and it shall be upon His shoulders again soon.
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
Offline Matthew  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, September 24, 2008 4:25:22 AM(UTC)
Matthew
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Location: São Paulo, Brazil

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Take from YY - Yshayahel chapter:

Quote:
The prophet Yasha'yah told us something remarkable about this "child born to us," this "Son given to us." He will have dominion over all. "Supreme authority (misrah - power and rule, government and sovereignty; from sarah, meaning to have the ability to contend, persist, and persevere) shall always exist (hayah - was, is, and will be) on His shoulders (sakem)..." (Yasha'yah /Isaiah 9:6)

The operative word here is hayah - past, present, and future existence. It tells us that the Son's dominion and sovereignty, like the Father's, was, is, and forever will be. The verb hayah lies at the heart of Rabbinical Judaism's two most fundamental errors. First, God has a name, one whose root, hayah, answers man's most fundamental question: Does God exist? Yahuweh says: I Was, I Am, and I Will Be. In this regard, Yahushua, also derived from hayah, is more than just a name. It is the answer to man's next most fundamental question: How does Yahuweh Save?

Second, hayah tells us that the Messiah was, is, and will be. Thanks to rabbinical denials and deceptions, Jews are waiting for a Messiah who already was, not understanding that He also will be. Yahushua, the human manifestation of Yahuweh walked in the Garden with Adam. He talked and ate with Abraham. Ya'aqob became Yisra'el in His presence. Moses and the elders learned from Him on Mount Horeb. Samuel talked with Him around the Ark of the Covenant in Shiloh. Although He did not visit on this occasion, Ezekiel saw Him as a vision of light, radiating above His throne. On the Miqra' of Tabernacles in 2 BCE, the Son was given to us. He returned on the Miqra' of FirstFruits in 33 CE after having fulfilling the obligations of Passover and Unleavened Bread. And He will exist in our presence again on the Day of Atonement 2033, the next Jubilee year, ushering in the final Sabbath with His final and seventh advent. All of these truths are imbedded in hayah.

Shakem, or shoulder, is majestic in its own way. The term relates to "that portion of human anatomy designed to carry a burden." That's important because shakem also means "to repeatedly consent to carry a load of trouble, raising it up early in the morning." The Savior willingly consented to shouldering our transgressions, to bearing our burdens so we wouldn't have to. The Son was "nathan - delivered up, handed over, and allowed to pay." He was "afflicted" as an "appropriation," "injured and left hanging" to "pay the price necessary to make us suitable." The Son is our Savior. His gift is eternity. That makes this portion of the verse more about Salvation than Dominion. It's saying that the Son was, is, and shall be the Supreme Authority, exercising absolute control, when it comes to bearing people's burdens, redeeming them, so that we might live. By choosing his words with precision, Yasha'yah was inspired to convey the principle attributes of the Messiah's salvation and dominion advents, hayah, existing as One.


Offline Garrett  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:33:02 AM(UTC)
Garrett
Joined: 1/28/2008(UTC)
Posts: 41
Location: Idaho

You guys are the best.

Thank you!

Garrett-
It is the glory of Elohim (God) to conceal a matter, but the honour of melekim (kings) to search it out.
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