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Offline Theophilus  
#1 Posted : Monday, August 4, 2008 4:02:39 AM(UTC)
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I was seeking an answer for a skeptic recently and stumbled upon an old resource from the PoD site that clears up 101 apparent contradictions in the Scriptures as rendered by Criag. I thought readers in thre forum might enjoy seeing this as well: http://www.prophetofdoom...ble_contradictions.Islam

For the Curious the question I researched was #52. I'll share this one as an example.

Quote:
52. Was Jesus on the cross (Mark 15:23) or in Pilate's court (John 19:14) at the sixth hour the day of the crucifixion?

(Category: misunderstood the historical context)

The simple answer to this is that the synoptic writers (Matthew, Mark and Luke) employed a different system of numbering the hours of day to that used by John. The synoptics use the traditional Hebrew system, where the hours were numbered from sunrise (approximately 6:00am in modern reckoning), making the crucifixion about 9:00am, the third hour by this system.

John, on the other hand, uses the Roman civil day. This reckoned the day from midnight to midnight, as we do today. Pliny the Elder (Natural History 2.77) and Macrobius (Saturnalia 1.3) both tell us as much. Thus, by the Roman system employed by John, Yahshua's trial by night was in its end stages by the sixth hour (6:00am), which was the first hour of the Hebrew reckoning used in the synoptics. Between this point and the crucifixion, Yahshua underwent a brutal flogging and was repeatedly mocked and beaten by the soldiers in the Praetorium (Mark 15:16-20). The crucifixion itself occurred at the third hour in the Hebrew reckoning, which is the ninth in the Roman, or 9:00am by our modern thinking.

This is not just a neat twist to escape a problem, as there is every reason to suppose that John used the Roman system, even though he was just as Jewish as Matthew, Mark and Luke. John's gospel was written after the other three while he was living in Ephesus. This was the capital of the Roman province of Asia, so John would have become used to reckoning the day according to the Roman usage. Further evidence of him doing so is found in John 21:19: 'On the evening of that first day of the week'. This was Sunday evening, which in Hebrew thinking was actually part of the second day, each day beginning at sunset. (Archer 1994:363-364)




Offline Matthew  
#2 Posted : Monday, August 4, 2008 6:57:27 AM(UTC)
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Exodus 12:6 "Take care of them until the fourteenth day of the month, when all the people of the community of Israel must slaughter them at twilight." I thought He was crucified towards the evening at the end of Passover Day, just as it heads into Unleavened Bread. Why then was the lamb slaughtered at twilight and not in the morning hours (about 9am)?

By my thinking of twilight I assume it's when the sun is setting and darkness begins to fall.
Offline Theophilus  
#3 Posted : Monday, August 4, 2008 9:25:17 AM(UTC)
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I've yet to work out the hour by hour break down of events, but if Yada is correct the crucifixion began at around 9:00AM with Messiah releasing his Spirit at around 3:00PM. The confusing aspect would likely have been the darkness described occuring from what I gather was around 12:00 noon and presisting for roughly the next three hours. I'll guess when the darkness began (noonish) that people would still realize that it was not twilight. After a few hours it may have been difficult to be sure that twilight was not indeed onsetting.

I wonder at what time local, the sun set occurs in Jerusalem on April 3, 33 CE? While I don't think that it would be as early as 3:00 PM, I'll guess that with the high Sabbath starting at sunset, 3:00PM would not leave a great amount of time to take a body down and prepare a hasty 1st century Jewish entombment ceremony.
Offline kp  
#4 Posted : Monday, August 4, 2008 9:53:31 AM(UTC)
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Well this is interesting, I must say. I've been studying a related subject all morning, working on TOM II, Chapter 9: "Dates of Destiny." I just took a break to peruse the forum, and came across this entry. Offhand, Matthew, the answer to your query (why were the lambs not slain in the morning, when Yahshua was crucified) was that the lambs weren't tortured as Yahshua was, but killed with a quick slash across the throat---more or less instantaneous. It took them maybe six seconds to die, not six hours. So the lambs were being slaughtered about the same time Yahshua died. Anyway, here's some of what I wrote this morning (before I ever saw this posting). Maybe it'll help...

Quote:
FEAST OF UNLEAVENED BREAD
The second miqra on Yahweh’s calendar is inextricably linked with the first—so much so that in common Jewish practice and parlance, they were seen as virtually the same thing. It’s only natural: the lamb that was slain on the afternoon of Passover was eaten after sundown, that is, technically several hours into the Feast of Unleavened Bread. The fire that was kindled during the first miqra was used to roast the lamb on the second. The leaven or yeast that was removed from every Israelite home on Pesach was the very thing characterized and defined Chag Matzah by it’s absence. One day could not be observed without the other, and they were, for all intents and purposes, seen and celebrated as one holiday.

But Yahweh was very careful to separate them in His instructions, to call them by different names and place them on different dates—though the second followed immediately on the heels of the first. It behooves us to ask why. If these days were purely memorial—if they spoke only of the events surrounding the exodus—then there would be no reason to distinguish them. But if they were symbolic of separate concepts, prophetic of different events that would prove crucial to God’s plan for our redemption, then we need to carefully consider what these things might be. We have already observed that the crucifixion of Yahshua took place on Passover in the year 33—His death took place at the very time the paschal lambs were being slain. This of course is a dead giveaway (if you’ll pardon the all-too-literal expression) to Christians that Yahshua’s sacrifice was the very thing the Passover symbolically pointed toward. Indeed, recognition of this fact is what most fundamentally separates Christianity from Judaism. The Feast of Unleavened Bread, then, symbolizes a different facet of Yahweh’s plan. What that is will become apparent in the next few Precepts.

(836) Observe the Feast of Unleavened Bread on the day specified by Yahweh. “On the fifteenth day of this month [the first month, Abib/Nisan] is the feast; unleavened bread shall be eaten for seven days. On the first day you shall have a holy convocation. You shall do no customary work.” (Numbers 28:17-18) The day after the Nisan 14 Passover, a seven-day festival (see Precept #838) was to begin. We are reminded that the first day of the mo‘ed was to be a qodesh miqra, a holy convocation, and a Sabbath: no customary work was to be done. (We find this to be literally the case in the crucifixion year, 33 A.D., when Nisan 15 fell on a Saturday, the natural Sabbath.) And indeed, when the sun heralding the Sabbath fell below the horizon, the work of our redemption had been completed. The sacrifice had been made, and the fires of judgment had been kindled. Yahshua had declared, “It is finished.”

Something else had been finished as well. The leaven—all of it—had been removed from the household of faith. That is, our sin (which is what leaven represents) had been physically taken away, if we would but trust in Yahshua’s finished work. These things—the Sabbath and the removal of leaven—are related. With both images, the picture of God’s having already done the work of removing the sin from our lives is the central theme. If we fail to accept that Yahweh has removed our sin, we are faced with the prospect of doing it ourselves (something that has proved impossible for everyone who’s ever tried). And if we refuse to “rest” in Yahshua’s finished work, represented by the Sabbath, we once again will be faced with a never ending and ultimately impossible task: working to achieve reconciliation with God on our own merits.

So whereas Passover explained the means by which Yahweh would redeem us, the Feast of Unleavened Bread reveals that He has actually accomplished His mission—and that we may now rest in the assurance of our salvation: our sin has been removed from our lives. What was Yahshua doing on this day in 33? His body rested from its labors in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea. His soul meanwhile, made alive by the Spirit of God, “went and preached to the [antediluvian] spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient,” as we’re informed in I Peter 3:19-20. That is, He did nothing more to secure our release from sin, for everything that could be done, had been done.


kp
Offline kp  
#5 Posted : Monday, August 4, 2008 2:13:29 PM(UTC)
kp
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

Yes, Swalchy. Of course, it all boils down to the same thing in years when Chag Matzah falls on a natural Sabbath, as it did in 33, the year of the passion---Preparation day for the Sabbath would be the same day of the week as Preparation day for the miqra.

By the way, Theophilus asked, "I wonder at what time local, the sun set occurs in Jerusalem on April 3, 33 CE?" Seems to me that because we were within a few weeks of the vernal equinox, the latitude wouldn't matter---it would have been right around six o'clock pm, right?

kp
Offline Theophilus  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, August 6, 2008 3:59:07 AM(UTC)
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Quote:
By the way, Theophilus asked, "I wonder at what time local, the sun set occurs in Jerusalem on April 3, 33 CE?" Seems to me that because we were within a few weeks of the vernal equinox, the latitude wouldn't matter---it would have been right around six o'clock pm, right?

kp


After thinking about this question for a while, I think you're correct with respect to latitude Ken. I'm sure that reflected sunlight would keep the sky from becoming completely dark right at 6:00PM but it should be pretty close and not too long after that the sky would indeed be dark. That would leave roughly three hours to take down the body and prepare it for entombment according to 1st century Jewish customs which seem sufficiently complex that even having the execution site and a prepared tomb may well be cutting it close timewise before the high sabbath began.

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