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Offline Joseph  
#1 Posted : Friday, August 3, 2007 7:23:04 PM(UTC)
Joseph
Joined: 7/16/2007(UTC)
Posts: 42
Man
Location: lakewood. CO

I know that I can (and will) read and reread scriptures for the rest of my life and never understand everything, but I am having a particularly hard time with this one. My relationship with Yahweh is in its infancy and I pray for wisdom every day but I have a problem with this verse. Can anyone help me?
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#2 Posted : Saturday, August 4, 2007 1:43:34 AM(UTC)
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Posts: 1,470
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Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
26 “If you want to be my disciple, you must hate everyone else by comparison—your father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even your own life. Otherwise, you cannot be my disciple. NLT

He's saying Love me above all things, even the things you hold close to your heart, like your parents, siblings and even your own life. Yahushua is asking for all of your love :) I would wager you would get more from an amplified version of the whole parable as well...
Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Offline kp  
#3 Posted : Saturday, August 4, 2007 3:51:02 AM(UTC)
kp
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

Hi, Joseph, and welcome to the forum. Robskiwarrior is right: in this case it's basically a matter of comparitive love. Our love for Yahshua must be so far above that which we show toward the objects of our "natural love" in this world (parents, siblings, our own lives) that it seems like "hate" in comparison. It's such a radical concept, however, that it's no wonder folks are stumped by it. I did a little digging into a couple of standard reference works for you on the key word in Luke 14:26---miseo, translated "hate." Hopefully these will be helpful...

Theological Dictionary of the New Testament:
Quote:
The requirement for discipleship in Lk. 14:26 is striking: “Hatred of all we are under obligation to love, including our own souls, is the condition of fellowship with Jesus, of working together with Him.” The reference is not to hate in the psychological sense, but to disowning, renunciation, rejection, as in theWisdom literature of the OT. Those who become disciples of Jesus must be committed exclusively to Him; they cannot be bound to anyone or anything else. The term “hate” demands the separation of the disciple, and the warning not to love anyone or anything more is the test. This abnegation is to be taken, not psychologically or fanatically, but pneumatically and christocentrically.


The Complete Word Study Dictionary:
Quote:
Miseo: To love less. In Luke 14:26 Jesus contrasts love to family with love to Himself. "If any come to me, and hate [misei, present active indicative, 3rd person singular] not his father, and mother, and wife, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." Here Jesus asserts His deity. Every member of man's family is a human being, and the love shown to humans compared to the love shown to Jesus Christ, God in the flesh, must be so different that the former seems like hatred. The meaning of miseo as loving less is made clear in Matthew 10:37, "He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." In His commands for loving other human beings, the Lord never said, "Love other human beings as you love me," but rather, "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself." (Matthew 19:19) When it comes to loving God, however, He is placed in a unique position.


It's worth noting that by requiring this sort of love, Yahshua was declaring Himself to be Yahweh---in harmony with the rest of Scripture. If Yahshua were only a good man, a great moral teacher, or the founder of a religion, but not God in the flesh, then this demand would constitute the worst sort of blasphemy---the kind of thing that'd make you want to crucify him.

Some other verses that shed light on Yahshua's teaching: "He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life." (John 12:25) "Then He said to them all, 'If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me. For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it.'" (Luke 9:23-24)

kp
Offline Joseph  
#4 Posted : Saturday, August 4, 2007 5:56:00 AM(UTC)
Joseph
Joined: 7/16/2007(UTC)
Posts: 42
Man
Location: lakewood. CO

thanks to both for your help. The "love less" translation makes absolute sense and puts these words of Luke in absolute harmony with everything else I understand
Offline Tiffany  
#5 Posted : Saturday, August 4, 2007 6:18:46 AM(UTC)
Tiffany
Joined: 6/7/2007(UTC)
Posts: 185
Woman

Hi Joseph,

I want to agree with all the Ken and Theo had to say about this verse, and wanted to share a short story about my life with you, to match up with the scriptures they quoted. I made a choice about 5 years ago to follow God more intensely than anyone else in my family as I was raised in the faith, and it started an adventure that continues to be the best adventure of my life.

I found myself at a crossroads and I was trying to make a decision about where to go next, and my dad who I love very much said to me...honey move home, I will help you get the job you need, you can have the house that have always like and we can help you get your life started over again. And at first this was the best offer, to go from the roughest point financially to being stable and close to family again. But as I was asking Yahweh about it, He gave me two choices. The first as I listed above in regards to moving home, the second was I could continue in my current situation and depend on Him for everything. Now you may say, that is not a hard a choice but I love my family and have been very close to them all of my life. I made the choice to follow Yahweh that day, and depend on Him totally for everything as I said it has been the best choice ever. Today, I look back and at the time what was a hard choice to love him like I love no one else, seems simply to me today, but I still had to make that choice. I have chosen and put Yahweh where no man can be, as my love for Yahweh is completely separate and only increases as the days go by.

I don’t know if this helps, but welcome to the biggest family ever!
Offline Theophilus  
#6 Posted : Sunday, August 5, 2007 6:54:59 AM(UTC)
Theophilus
Joined: 7/5/2007(UTC)
Posts: 544
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Thanks: 4 times
Hello and also welcome to the forum Joseph.

I too found this verse out of place on the surface as "hating" one's family semed at odds with the larger message of Scriptures of loving your neighbors. Thankfully I came across the "love less" definition soon after and agree that this definition restores the consistancy of the message of the Scriptures. Thank you Ken, for the more expansive defintions and Tiffany for your amazing account of trusting Yah and the deepening that you've experienced since.
Offline Joseph  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, August 7, 2007 7:36:42 PM(UTC)
Joseph
Joined: 7/16/2007(UTC)
Posts: 42
Man
Location: lakewood. CO

Tiffany: what an awesome story! Your faith is inspiring and thank you so much for sharing. Theopolis: I am glad you wieghed in. I have respected your posts. I'm still getting used to this board and my newfound joy (after spending too many years as an athiest and agnostic). I feel so amazingly welcome here and have been asking Yahweh daily to reveal the sort of witness I should prusue. So far I'm afraid that anxiety and clumsiness characterize my attempts but I find strength here. Thanks to all!
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