Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,470 Location: England Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
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Welcome to the forums! I dont think we have any control over angels, they are directly under Yah's command and we are not to think we do. I think this is important because Satan can appear as a messenger of light, so if we know that then you could see the possible issues it could cause if we ask for, then recieve these "angles". We could end up speaking to the wrong side, and actually start taking their word over scripture (enter the mormons and other "cults") But enough of my opinion, lets have a look at the verse in context. It does not mention "Angels" but it does mention evil spirits - which is interesting as they are the same beings just with a difference err, political? stance. Mark 9 14-28 - NLT wrote: Jesus Heals a Demon-Possessed Boy 14 When they returned to the other disciples, they saw a large crowd surrounding them, and some teachers of religious law were arguing with them. 15 When the crowd saw Jesus, they were overwhelmed with awe, and they ran to greet him.
16 “What is all this arguing about?” Jesus asked.
17 One of the men in the crowd spoke up and said, “Teacher, I brought my son so you could heal him. He is possessed by an evil spirit that won’t let him talk. 18 And whenever this spirit seizes him, it throws him violently to the ground. Then he foams at the mouth and grinds his teeth and becomes rigid.[d] So I asked your disciples to cast out the evil spirit, but they couldn’t do it.”
19 Jesus said to them,[e] “You faithless people! How long must I be with you? How long must I put up with you? Bring the boy to me.”
20 So they brought the boy. But when the evil spirit saw Jesus, it threw the child into a violent convulsion, and he fell to the ground, writhing and foaming at the mouth.
21 “How long has this been happening?” Jesus asked the boy’s father.
He replied, “Since he was a little boy. 22 The spirit often throws him into the fire or into water, trying to kill him. Have mercy on us and help us, if you can.”
23 “What do you mean, ‘If I can’?” Jesus asked. “Anything is possible if a person believes.”
24 The father instantly cried out, “I do believe, but help me overcome my unbelief!”
25 When Jesus saw that the crowd of onlookers was growing, he rebuked the evil[f] spirit. “Listen, you spirit that makes this boy unable to hear and speak,” he said. “I command you to come out of this child and never enter him again!”
26 Then the spirit screamed and threw the boy into another violent convulsion and left him. The boy appeared to be dead. A murmur ran through the crowd as people said, “He’s dead.” 27 But Jesus took him by the hand and helped him to his feet, and he stood up.
28 Afterward, when Jesus was alone in the house with his disciples, they asked him, “Why couldn’t we cast out that evil spirit?”
29 Jesus replied, “This kind can be cast out only by prayer.[g]”
and now lets see that word for word amplified Thewaytoyahweh.com Mark 9 14-29 wrote: Next, having come, arisen and appeared towards the other disciples and followers, pupils and learners, apprentices and adherents, they saw and recognised, observed and perceived, paid attention to and became acquainted with a great and large crowd and multitude, throng and mass of people around and surrounding them on all sides, and clerks and scribes, public servants and teachers of religious law, secretaries and government officials, judges and scholars questioning and disputing, enquiring and discussing, debating and examining, pondering and arguing with and against them. And immediately and straightaway, when all of those in the crowd and multitude, throng and mass of people had seen and perceived, observed and witnessed, known and experienced, recognised and respected, understood, comprehended and appreciated Him, they were greatly astonished, astounded and utterly amazed, and running, approaching and coming forward, they greeted and saluted, embraced and welcomed, paid respect to and wished Him well. And He asked and desired to know, addressed and enquired, examined and requested them to answer the following question, “Why are you questioning and disputing, enquiring and discussing, debating and examining, pondering and arguing with and against them?” And one from out of the crowd and multitude, throng and mass of people answered His question, “Teacher, Master and Instructor, I brought and carried, led and guided, moved and fetched my son to You; he has and holds, acquires and receives, owns and possess a spirit* of speechlessness, making him a mute and therefore unable to speak or utter any intelligible sound. And wherever and in whatever place it takes hold of and seizes, apprehends and obtains, gains and possesses, grasps and wins, attains and receives, overpowers and gains control over him, it convulses him and throws him into a fit, dashing him and hurling him to the ground. And he foams and froths at the mouth, and he grinds, grates and gnashes his teeth, and becomes rigid, paralysed and stiff. And so I asked your disciples and followers, pupils and learners, apprentices and adherents so that and in order that they might throw out and expel, drive out and repudiate, pull and tear out, bring and send out, cast and extract out, dispose and eject, banish and get rid of it, but they were not powerful or strong, able or competent, mighty or forceful enough to do so.” And Yahushua* answered and replied, saying to them, “O unfaithful and incredulous, unbelievable and untrustworthy, unreliable and disobedient, treacherous and crooked, unscrupulous and perverse, twisted and dishonest, warped and distorted, depraved, corrupt and mislead generation and age, clan and people very much like each other in endowments, pursuits and character! Up until when, at what time and how long will I be and exist with you? Up until when, at what time and how long will I patiently endure and put up with, bear and sustain, accept and hold you up? Bring and carry, lead and guide, move and fetch him to Me!” So they brought and carried, led and guided, moved and fetched him towards Him, Yahushua, And having seen and perceived, observed and witnessed, known and experienced, recognised and respected, understood, comprehended and appreciated Him, the spirit* immediately and straight away convulsed him and threw him into a fit, distorted him and pulled him to and fro, and falling down and collapsing, tumbling and throwing himself down upon the earth and ground, land and soil, he was rolling and revolving, whirling and trundling around, wallowing in the dirt, foaming and frothing at the mouth. And He asked and desired to know, addressed and enquired, examined and requested his father to answer the following question, “How long and up until what point in time has it existed since this came to be and existed, arose, appeared and originated with him?” And he replied, “From out of childhood. It has also often and frequently at many times thrown and cast, scattered and hurled, propelled and expelled him into both fire or into water, so that and in order that it might destroy and kill, ruin and annihilate him, render him useless, waste and slay him, causing him to perish and pass away. But nevertheless, notwithstanding and on the contrary, if you are powerful and mighty, able and capable, forceful and influenceable, authorised and significant, competent and excellent enough to do something, come to our aid, help us and rescue us, becoming moved with compassion and feeling sympathy, having mercy and pity upon us!” But nevertheless, Yahushua* said to him, “If I am powerful and mighty, able and capable, forceful and influenceable, authorised and significant, competent and excellent enough to do something! All individual and collective things are possible and capable, competent and able to be done by those who trust and rely, obey and place confidence, certainty and guarantee, assurance and dependence in the Supreme One.” Immediately and straight away, after the small child’s father* had shouted and cried, screamed and howled, yelled out and exclaimed, he said, “I trust and rely, obey and place confidence, certainty and guarantee, assurance and dependence in the Supreme One! Help, aid and rescue me from my unfaithfulness and incredulousness, unbelief and untrustworthiness, unreliability, treachery and disobedience!” But nevertheless, as Yahushua* had seen and perceived, observed and witnessed, known and experienced, recognised and respected, understood, comprehended and appreciated that concerning this, another crowd and multitude, throng and mass of people were running together to the scene, He rebuked and admonished, rated and chided, reproved and censured, punished and warned, charged, evaluated and denounced the spirit*, saying and teaching, maintaining and affirming, directing and exhorting, advising and pointing out, “Speechless, mute and blunt, dull and deaf spirit*, I charge and enjoin, command, order and instruct you: come and disembark, depart, go and proceed from out of him, leaving him. And you may no longer, no more and no further enter or go into him.” And having shouted and cried, screamed and howled, yelled out and exclaimed, and having caused him to convulse and threw him into a fit, distorted him and pulled him to and fro greatly and plentifully, deeply and severely, heavily and earnestly, strictly and majorly, very much, to a great extent and for a long time, it came and disembarked, departed, went and proceeded to go, and he came to be and exist, arose and appeared as if and as though dead and lifeless, deceased and inanimate, so that and therefore, for this reason and for this purpose, it caused many numerous and large amounts of people to say and teach, maintain and affirm, direct and exhort, advise and point out that concerning this, he had died and perished, having his soul separated from his body. But nevertheless, Yahushua*, having taken hold of and gasping, seizing and taking possession of, obtaining and attaining him by the hand, raised and lifted, elevated and caused him to awaken, and he stood upright and firm, steadfast and established, fixed and unmoveable, upheld and sustained, maintained and authorised. And having come and entered towards Him, His disciples and followers, pupils and learners, apprentices and adherents came and approached, turned and drew near to Him alone by themselves, and they asked and requested, entreated and questioned, beseeched and enquired of Him, saying and teaching, maintaining and affirming, directing and exhorting, advising and pointing out, “Concerning what has just happened, why were we not powerful or mighty, able or capable, forceful or influenceable, authorised or significant, competent or excellent enough to throw out and expel, drive and repudiate, pull and tear out, bring and send out, cast and extract out, dispose of and eject, banish and get rid of it?” And He replied to them, “This kind and sort, class and nature is unable and cannot be forced or compelled, overpowered or made to come or disembark, depart or proceed to go in, by or with anything or any means except in, by and with prayer and communication with the Supreme One.
The verse in question - amplified “If I am powerful and mighty, able and capable, forceful and influenceable, authorised and significant, competent and excellent enough to do something! All individual and collective things are possible and capable, competent and able to be done by those who trust and rely, obey and place confidence, certainty and guarantee, assurance and dependence in the Supreme One.”Now with the casting out of a demon from the boy, the demon being a fallen messenger - the answer is at the bottom of the section: “This kind and sort, class and nature is unable and cannot be forced or compelled, overpowered or made to come or disembark, depart or proceed to go in, by or with anything or any means except in, by and with prayer and communication with the Supreme One."It seems there might be a different approch to things that are not bound by this world. It seems that even messengers from the "other side" are not to be commanded directly by the person casting out said spirit, it has to come from Yahuweh. It seems possibly that you have to ask Yahuweh to sort it out, kind of like going to the police to report a crime. Anyone else got any thoughts? |