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Offline Jeannie  
#1 Posted : Saturday, July 14, 2007 6:10:31 AM(UTC)
Joined: 6/27/2007(UTC)
Posts: 254
Location: Florida

Below is an exchange between Yada and a gentleman concerning the Temple Mount. His name has been removed as a courtsey and to protect his anonymity.
I think nothing raises our ire more than knowing that abomination sits there!!

Tuesday, September 05, 2006:

The following article about Muslim systematic destruction of the
Temple Mount makes my blood boil. Priceless archaeological sources
are being destroyed forever. I am totally unable to understand the
refusal of the Israeli government to put a stop to what is going on.
This is inexcusable.

If it was up to me, the Muslim Waqf would be disallowed on
principle and ALL Muslim control of ANY portions of the Temple
Mount immediately and permanently ended. Muslims have NO rights
to anything at all to do with the Temple Mount. It is the very real site
of the ancient temple of Israel. The Muslim claim to the site rests on
an entirely fictional visit to Jerusalem by Muhammad during which he
supposedly rode his favorite jackass (which conveniently grew wings
for the occasion) to Heaven. Such fantasy is pure hokum, and belief
in such fantasy has as a consequence appeasement of Islamic idiots
to wreck Jewish heritage that has deep meaning to the entire world.

I could not be more upset.

Reports about this matter have been persistent for quite a few years.
The facts are well known to American Evangelicals, who have
protested again and again to no avail. Catholics have also
voiced their concern.

The facts are known to a variety of Jewish and specifically Israeli
groups who have also protested many times. And scholars, especially
archaeologists, have also protested repeatedly. Yet the government of
Israel does absolutely nothing !

Exactly what explains this gross irresponsibility ? We all
deserve to know.

The historic mosques built on the site should be moved elsewhere. They
are not too large for such a project. Then, as much as can still be done
before all hope is lost, there should be a complete archaeological study
of the Temple Mount during a period of perhaps two years. After this
has been done construction should begin on a new temple, as much as
possible based on historical, precedent.

Muslims have ZERO respect for the historical value of the Temple
Mount except insofar as it figures into Islamic history. Against all
empirical evidence they deny the reality of the Hebrew temple of history
and, of course, deny the truth of even those parts of the Bible that have
withstood scholarly scrutiny as providing testable information about
the history of Jerusalem and the Biblical world. The veracity of claims
made in the Qur'an, in other words, is about the same as the veracity
of Urantia, Theosophy, or any other cult you can think of. To give
the claims of Islam the last credence is farsical.

Any practice of Islam should be prohibited on the Temple Mount or its
environs. All Muslim encroachments should be removed, such as Muslim
cemeteries. Otherwise, as the Bible says, the new temple should be a
house of prayer for all peoples. But Islam is a thing apart, a criminal
religion with utterly Fascist beliefs and values and does not deserve the
least recognition or respect.

Further, the Islamification of parts of Palestine and even communities
in Arab dominant parts of Israel, should be made to cease. The process
whereby Christians are made to feel unwelcome in the land where Jesus
lived and died must also end, no matter what Muslims say and no matter
what violent acts they may resort to. Nazareth and Bethlehem should be
under Christian control and become autonomous cities within the nation of
Israel. There is no excuse at all for appeasement of a religion, Islam,
in essence, is a form of Fascism.

Most of all, what is essential is a massive educational campaign that lets
the entire Muslim world know exactly how diseased Islam is, how
anti-humanistic, how psychologically warped, and how intellectually
indefensible. There needs to be a war -a War of Ideas- against Islam.

This war should be fought with newspapers, books, debates, lectures,
movies, TV programs, magazine articles, research papers, personal
testimonials, radio broadcasts, blogs, and all available peaceful means.

What would PROVE beyond all doubt just how perverted and criminal
Islam actually is, would be the predictable Muslim response:

Suicide bombers, beheadings, kidnappings, anti-Semitic hatred in
numerous expressions, and the entire range of ugly behaviors we all
have become familiar with in the past half century -but which historians
have known about as typical of Dar Al-Islam since its beginnings
over 1400 years ago.

Arabs are or can be good , decent, and intelligent people. The same goes
for Iranians, Pakistanis, Turks and all the others. This should only be a
war of ideas, and not a war against people because of their ethnic
background. But it should be a war which we fight to win.

There is no practical difference between the values of Islam and the
values of the Third Reich. This is why there needs to be a war of ideas.
fought with everything we have got.

Essentially Islam is Satanic. Whether or not you believe in the existence
of a literal Devil, this is the character of Muslim religion.

As a former teacher of Comparative Religion my natural tendency, despite
my specific religious preferences, is to respect religions of all kinds.
However, no way in Hell can I respect Fascism, and especially no way
I can respect a religion that is as opposed to the core values of America
as is the case for Islam.

That many people denigrate Evangelical Christianity and Orthodox Judaism
is understandable in some respects. All too often the viewpoint of such
believers is pre-scientific and alien to Age-of-Enlightenment values on
which the United States was founded. But in comparison with the mentality
of the overwhelming majority of Muslims, Evangelicals and even the most
Orthodox of Jews are paragons of rationality and empiricism. In case this
fact has somehow escaped your attention, Muslims, with very few
exceptions, are grossly pre-scientific and horribly anti-enlightenment in
their values. It is high time to tell it like it is. Islam is the enemy of
just about
everything that is noble, good, truthful, beautiful, or humane.

We need a war of ideas against Islam, and the sooner the better.

Muslim building projects on the Temple Mount and the expansion of a Muslim
cemetery alongside the Mount have led to significant damage to the site in
recent years and have created an unsightly hodge-podge of repairs and

The 35-acre Temple Mount is the most hotly contested piece of property on
earth. Holy to the world's three monotheistic religions-Judaism, Islam and
Christianity-it has for decades been the focal point of tensions between
Jews and Arabs. The fight over the Temple Mount has sparked riots, such as
those in 1996 after Israel opened an exit to a tunnel alongside the Mount
(which allowed many more visitors to go through the tunnel) and the Second
Intifada (Palestinian uprising), which began after future Prime Minister
Ariel Sharon visited the Mount in 2000.

In 1967, during the Six Day War, Israel captured east Jerusalem, including
the Old City, which contains the Temple Mount. Although the Mount is
technically under Israeli supervision, the Temple Mount has since the war
been in the de facto control of the Muslim Waqf (religious endowment). The
long-established policy, known as the "status quo," is to leave Muslim and
Christian holy sites in the hands of their respective religions.1
1> Therefore, the above ground area of the Temple Mount is reserved for
Muslims and their religious observances. Although Jews and members of other
religions have been allowed on the Mount since 2003 (there was a three-year
exclusion after the Second Intifada started), none are allowed to pray
there. Muslim authorities and the Israeli police keep the 40-year-old
anti-prayer rule strictly enforced. Jews are only allowed to pray at the
plaza outside the Western (or Wailing) Wall, part of the retaining wall
built by Herod in the first century B.C.

Since the late 1940s, the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan has been in charge of
the Waqf as the custodian of Muslim holy places, including the Dome of the
Rock and Al Aqsa mosque, which stand on the Temple Mount. But in the early
1990s, Palestinian leader Yassar Arafat took over control of the Waqf, and a
systematic destruction of any vestige of Jewish presence on the Mount was
begun. Arafat claimed that there never was a Jewish Temple in Jerusalem, an
opinion often referred to as "Temple Denial."2

During the ten-year "reign" of Arafat on the Temple Mount, and in the years
since his death, numerous unauthorized and archaeologically unsupervised
construction projects have been carried out. In 1996 the Waqf began
converting the underground area of the Mount popularly known as Solomon's
Stables into a large mosque. It has bulldozed parts of the top of the mount
to make way for "open" mosques, cleaned ancient cisterns, paved over ancient
areas, damaged an ancient wall, dug a trench for a utility line, and removed
thousands of tons of "debris," from the site, dumping it in the Kidron
3> They've also employed a huge electric saw to cut up ancient stones from
the Temple Mount, destroying any historical evidence the stones may have
offered. An analysis in the early 1990s found that the Waqf had committed
more than 35 violations of Israeli antiquities law on the site.4

Partly as a result of the construction, which has gone unchecked for years,5
5> the walls of the Temple Mount have weakened. As early as 2000, Israeli
archaeologists noticed a bulge in the southern wall.6
6> An earthquake in February 2004 created another bulge in the eastern
wall. The southern wall was repaired by a Jordanian team of engineers, a
compromise because neither the Palestinian authority nor the Israeli
government wanted the other to do the repairs. The Jordanian repairs to the
southern wall have left an unsightly splotch-the new building blocks that
were used to replace damaged ones do not match the old ones in color, and
the result looks like a large patch.


The eastern wall is currently under repair by a joint Jordanian-Egyptian
team. The joint team of engineers was called in at the behest of the
Jordanian government, who regained custodianship of the Temple Mount in 2004
as part of the earlier Israel-Jordan peace agreement. That repair work has
its own unsightliness-scaffolding currently covers the repair area.


The latest Muslim encroachment to the Temple Mount is at the "straight
joint" and the Ophel road at the southeastern corner of the Temple Mount.
The "straight joint" is a masonry seam marking the end of the pre-Herodian
Temple Mount and the beginning of Herod's extension of the wall southward;
the masonry in the extension abuts the masonry to the north and is not
interlocked with it. This was first excavated by Charles Warren in the 19th
century, and then by Kathleen Kenyon, who stopped because of the outbreak of
the 1967 war. Two Muslim cemeteries, one located north of the straight
joint. The area south of the straight joint has been declared an
archaeological park. It has no longstanding history as a cemetery, but new
Muslim graves have now been filling this area.


The Israeli government has done nothing to prevent this increasing
encroachment on the Temple Mount. The IAA is powerless to interfere because
it has been so ordered by the highest levels of government.

The Jerusalem Post called the state of the Temple Mount an "archaeological
tragedy," and Eilat Mazar, one of the members of a group of scholars,
archaeologists, jurists and luminaries known as the Committee for the
Prevention of the Destruction of Antiquities on the Temple Mount founded in
2000, said, that the government has to do something: "This is the most
important site in Israel, and yet we don't see the authorities there. We
have to wake up and realize that if we don't take care of it, the vandalism
and illegal construction will continue."7
7> The committee filed a complaint with the High Court of Justice in May to
stop the extension of the Muslim cemeteries.

The result of all the destruction and encroachment is an unsightly mess. The
repair to the southern wall is visible even at a distance, the eastern wall
is currently covered in scaffolding, and graves snake up the land to the
Temple Mount wall.-K.E.M.

BAR editor Hershel Shanks recently returned from a trip to Israel and
Jordan; his pictures of the current state of the Temple Mount Walls can be
found at: Gallery
<http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/TempleWall/bswbTempleWallGallery.asp> .


Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs <http://www.jcpa.org/jl/vp483.htm>

The Committee for the Prevention of Destruction of Antiquities on the Temple
Mount <http://www.har-habayt.org/cpdatm.html>

The Temple Mount Archaeological Destruction

Jewish Magazine <http://www.jewishmag.com/42mag/templemount/templemount.htm>

The Temple Mount Faithful <http://www.templemountfaithful.org/>

Christian Action for Israel

Forward <http://www.forward.com/issues/2003/03.10.10/news9.wall.html>

Hershel Shanks in The Washington Post

Archaeology Magazine <http://www.archaeology.org/0003/newsbriefs/flap.html>

I agree with you about the Temple Mount. If it were me there would be no
Muslims in Israel, much less on the Mount. If it were me, I'd level the Dome
and demolish al-Aqsa. In fact, I would have bombed the Ka'aba after 9/11. I
cover this subject in both TWT and POD. In fact, there are two chapters
dedicated to the flying ass and the dome of the hoofie print.


Thanks for the comments. A little clarification might be a good idea, however.
The mosques on the Temple Mount -from all indications- were built by
Byzantine Christians who were coerced or otherwise persuaded to do this
work. The designs are typically Byzantine Christian and when the Crusaders
took control of the land (I prefer to say that they Liberated it ) it was no problem
at all for them to re-use the buildings as churches. Out of respect for this
heritage I think those structures ought to be preserved.

But what else I stand for in taking back each and every church in the entire
Muslim world that has ever been confiscated by Muslims to become mosques.
While we are at it, as a gesture of good will to others who take a dim view
of Islam and who are (or could be) strong allies in a war of ideas against Islam,
all former Hindu temples taken over by Muslims should be returned to Hindus,
all Zoroastrian properties confiscated by Muslims should be returned to the
Zoroastrians, etc etc,.

Needless to say, however, as far as anything like getting a public hearing is
concerned we need to be circumspect at least to some extent in what we say.
I do NOT mean pulling punches. There has been far too much of that, and
for what ? Our illustrious gvt (both Clinton and Bush ) has played the role
or appeaser and this sort of nonsense is inexcusable. But we don't need
to say it all, each and every time, that's the idea.


Best regards,


I’m sorry B but the Temple Mount as it exists today was enlarged by King Herod. There is one mosque and one shrine on the Mount. Neither were built by the Byzatines. As for rebuilding churches on the site, that would be an insult to Yahweh. It is His Mount and He will rebuild His Temple when He returns.
Offline kp  
#2 Posted : Sunday, July 15, 2007 9:53:09 AM(UTC)
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

It may be of interest to point out that the Millennial Temple from which Yahshua will rule His kingdom will not---cannot---be built upon the present herky-jerky trapezoid known as the temple mount, though T3---the third temple, supported by the Antichrist (built and utilized first by the Jews early in the Tribulation, only to be hijacked by the Antichrist and used to perpetrate the "Abomination of Desolation") almost certainly will be built there. The scriptural clues suggest that the final temple will be built a couple of hundred yards northwest of the Mount, outside the old city wall, over the site of the crucifixion, Golgotha. The topography of Jerusalem will be very very different by then from what it is now, of course. The scriptural evidence is all laid out in Future History, chapter 27: The Millennial Temple.

Offline bitnet  
#3 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2008 7:02:17 PM(UTC)
Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,120

Much as we like to preserve antiquities, however significant, we must be careful not to make them into idols. We know that this is the head of the match that will light the fires in the ME and that our opinions don't really factor much in current affairs. But it will when the real Owner comes to claim it.
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
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