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Offline needhelp  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, August 27, 2013 3:16:11 AM(UTC)
Joined: 5/19/2011(UTC)
Posts: 197
Location: US

I understand that the TP&P are made up of metaphors,
but what about Yahowsha's name? What verse actually
says Yahowsha is His? Am I studying too much?
Getting confused.

Yahowsha is His mission and title. "Yahowah saves,
Yahowah is salvation, Yahowah saving us." I don't
know a lot about Hebrew grammar.

But what about ....
" behold (hineh – pay attention and look, noticing the details;
at that time and at an adjacent site) a virgin girl (‘almah – a
maiden, young female who is unwed and has yet to mate) shall conceive
(harah – become pregnant and be with child), giving birth to (yalad –
delivering, bearing and bringing forth, begetting) a Son (ben), and shall call
(qara’ – recite and proclaim, appoint and endow) His name (shem) Immanuel
(‘Imanuw’el – With us is God).” (Yasha’yahuw / Salvation is from Yah / Isaiah 7:14)?

(Isa 7:14 [KJV+TVM (ES)])
Therefore the Lord H136 himself shall give H5414[ H8799] you a sign H226; Behold, a virgin H5959 shall conceive H2030, and bear H3205[ H8802] a son H1121, and shall call H7121[ H8804] his name H8034 Immanuel H6005 H410.

(Isa 7:14 [LXXE])
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; behold, a virgin shall conceive in the womb, and shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Emmanuel.

Isaiah Scroll
28. [{to wear}]y men, will you also weary God, (14) therefore [+YHWH+] [m..adonay] himself will give to you [{a sign}]
29.[{Behold}] the virgin shall conceive and bring forth a son and he shall call his name Immanuel. (15)

[img] [/img]

Imanuw’el - With us is God would
represent Sukoth.
Offline Perwee  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, August 28, 2013 2:28:02 AM(UTC)
Joined: 8/4/2012(UTC)
Posts: 24
Location: Pretoria, South Africa


You might find some answers here.
This I also found in the forum:
“For Your salvation (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה) I wait, O Yahuwah.” (Genesis 49:18) Jacob, as Israel, waited for Yahusha: not just salvation, but Yahuwah's salvation.
“Yahuwah is my strength and song, and He has become my salvation (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה); This is my God, and I will praise Him; My father’s God, and I will extol Him.” (Exodus 15:2) Note: Yahuwah has become Yahusha!
“But Jeshurun grew fat and kicked—You are grown fat, thick, and sleek—Then he forsook God who made him, and scorned the Rock of his salvation (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה).” (Deuteronomy. 32:15) Here Yahuwah has predicted Israel’s scornful mindset.
“Therefore I will give thanks to You, O Yahuwah, among the nations, and I will sing praises to Your name. He is a tower of deliverance (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה) to His king, and shows lovingkindness to His anointed, to David and his descendants forever.” (II Samuel 22:50-51) Yahuwah was Yahusha to King David.
“Sing to Yahuwah, all the earth; proclaim the good news of His salvation (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה) from day to day.” (I Chronicles 16:23) Yahusha is Yahuwah's "good news."
“Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him. Even so, I will defend my own ways before Him. He also shall be my salvation (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה), for a hypocrite could not come before Him.” (Job 13:15-16) Job has equated Yahuwah with the One who "shall be" Yahusha.
“Many are they who say of me, ‘There is no help (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה) for him in God.” (Psalm 3:2) Israel’s denial is once again predicted.
“Have mercy on me, O Yahuwah! Consider my trouble from those who hate me, You who lift me up from the gates of death, that I may tell of all Your praise in the gates of the daughter of Zion. I will rejoice in Your salvation (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה).” (Psalm 9:13-14) Here and in the next one, the Psalmist voices the most oft-repeated theme in all of scripture: that Israel will come to recognize that Yahusha is their Messiah. Their national spiritual restoration as predicted in Ezekiel 37:11-14 depends on it.
“But I have trusted in Your mercy. My heart shall rejoice in Your salvation (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה).” (Psalm 13:5) Ditto.
“Oh, that the salvation (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה) of Israel would come out of Zion! When Yahuwah brings back the captivity of His people, let Jacob rejoice and Israel be glad.” (Psalm 14:7, repeated in Psalm 53:6) As Moses said, the Messiah will arise from Israel.
“My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me? Why are You so far from helping (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה) Me?” (Psalm 22:1) Yahusha quoted this Psalm on the cross, applying it to Himself. Note: Psalm 22:1 1-2 My God (‘el - Mighty One, singular), my God (‘el), why (mah - by what means, for how long, and to what end) have You forsaken (azab - abandoned and relinquished Me, left Me desolate, separated from Me and departed from Me, damned and deserted) Me? Far (rachowq - remote in distance and time, separated in space; alienated and no longer in a state of close association; from rachaq, meaning to be removed and distant, to be sent off and to go far) away from (min - out of and separated from) Yahusha, My salvation (yashuw’ah (- (יְשׁוּעָה Yahusha; a compound name derived from Yahowah and yasha’ ( יָשַׁע ) to save,salvation, and Savior) are the words of my groaning (sheagah – roaring anguish). O my God (‘elohiym), I call out (qara’ - summon) in the daytime (yowmam), but You do not answer (‘anah - respond); and by night (layil) but I have no rest (dumiyah - silence or relief; repose from laying down in death).
“Why are you cast down, O my soul? And why are you disquieted within me? Hope in God, for I shall yet praise Him for the help (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה) of His countenance.” (Psalm 42:5, repeated in both 42:11 and 43:5) We are to praise God for Yahusha---who is literally the countenance of Yahuwah among us.
“Truly my soul silently waits for God. From Him comes my salvation (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה). He only is my rock and my salvation (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה). He is my defense; I shall not be greatly moved.” (Psalm 62:1-2) Yahusha comes from God. And oh, by the way, "He (God) only is...Yahusha."
“God be merciful to us and bless us, and cause His face to shine upon us, that Your way may be known on earth, Your salvation (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה) among all nations.” (Psalm 67:1-2) Yahusha will be known among all nations, and this is equated with "Your (God's) way being known on earth."
“Therefore Yahuwah heard this and was furious. So a fire was kindled against Jacob, and anger also came up against Israel, because they did not believe in God, and did not trust in His salvation (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה).” (Psalm 78:22) Once again, Yahuwah has predicted Israel’s rejection and disbelief---and He says He's angry.
“O Yahuwah, God of my salvation (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה), I have cried out day and night before You. Let my prayer come before You. Incline Your ear to my cry.” (Psalm 88:1-2) Yahuwah is the God of Yahusha. Why would anyone want to be His enemy?
“He [God’s “holy One”] shall cry to Me, ‘You are my Father, My God, and the rock of my salvation (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה).’” (Psalm 89:26) Here God the Father is once again equated with Yahusha.
Offline needhelp  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, August 28, 2013 5:59:53 AM(UTC)
Joined: 5/19/2011(UTC)
Posts: 197
Location: US

Thanks Perwee.
I Know Yahowah's name is important to Him.
Yahowsha is a "physical" version of Yahowah.
Even the messenger in Matt. 1:20-23 said to call
His name Immanuel. I don't understand this. He is
the instrument of salvation and a part of Yahowah,
but it was "written" to call his name Immanuel.
I don't wish to start an argument, there is enough
of that here. Maybe they are right.I should quit studying.
I have been told not to read, talk about the Torah, or
come to this site. That's why I hid for 5 years. But I'm
not getting anywhere. Maybe I need to just quit.
Thankx all for your help.
Offline dajstill  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, August 28, 2013 11:30:16 PM(UTC)
Joined: 11/23/2011(UTC)
Posts: 748
Location: Alabama

Was thanked: 4 time(s) in 4 post(s)
needhelp wrote:
Thanks Perwee.
I Know Yahowah's name is important to Him.
Yahowsha is a "physical" version of Yahowah.
Even the messenger in Matt. 1:20-23 said to call
His name Immanuel. I don't understand this. He is
the instrument of salvation and a part of Yahowah,
but it was "written" to call his name Immanuel.
I don't wish to start an argument, there is enough
of that here. Maybe they are right.I should quit studying.
I have been told not to read, talk about the Torah, or
come to this site. That's why I hid for 5 years. But I'm
not getting anywhere. Maybe I need to just quit.
Thankx all for your help.

Don't quit studying, you are asking great questions. I will admit that Yahowsha is still a hard topic for me to study as well. In fact, I often times put the topic of Yahowsha' to the back of my mind and sometimes relegate it to "belief". I don't like that, it makes me uncomfortable, but I just can't seem to tease out truth. There are too many unanswered questions. This is especially hard as a former christian, where "Jesus" is a god in his own right and could go against "the father" if he chose, change the torah, change the covenant, etc. It is hard for me to figure out just what is true, so you are not the only one struggling as we walk this journey - it is a hard one at times.
Offline Mike  
#5 Posted : Thursday, August 29, 2013 9:45:42 AM(UTC)
Joined: 10/2/2007(UTC)
Posts: 531
Location: Texas

Thanks: 6 times
Was thanked: 20 time(s) in 12 post(s)

Remember, Don’t ever give up! Who told you not to read, study Torah, or come to this site?

I read your post then looked up Isa 7:14 in e-Sword and looked at the definitions of the various words, then it was like, oh man, what if it should be translated like this:

Isa 7:14 Therefore Yahowah himself gives you a sign: Look, the maiden conceives and gives birth to a Son and shall encounter his reputation, God with us.

So I looked Isa 7:14 up on Logos and read the notes for 7:14 which included this:

28 tn Heb “and you will call his name.” The words “young lady” are supplied in the translation to clarify the identity of the addressee. The verb is normally taken as an archaic third feminine singular form here, and translated, “she will call.” However the form (קָרָאת, qara’t) is more naturally understood as second feminine singular, in which case the words would be addressed to the young woman mentioned just before this. In the three other occurrences of the third feminine singular perfect of I קָרָא (qara’, “to call”), the form used is קָרְאָה (qar’ah; see Gen 29:35; 30:6; 1 Chr 4:9). A third feminine singular perfect קָרָאת does appear in Deut 31:29 and Jer 44:23, but the verb here is the homonym II קָרָא (“to meet, encounter”). The form קָרָאת (from I קָרָא, “to call”) appears in three other passages (Gen 16:11; Isa 60:18; Jer 3:4 [Qere]) and in each case is second feminine singular.
29 sn The name Immanuel means “God [is] with us.”

Isa 7:14 לכןH3651 יתןH5414 אדניH136 הואH1931 לכם אותH226 הנהH2009 העלמהH5959 הרהH2030 וילדתH3205 בןH1121 וקראתH7121 שׁמוH8034 עמנו אל׃H6005

H7121 and H7122 are spelled exactly the same, so why did the translators of English "bibles" choose H7121 instead of H7122?

BDB Definition:
1) to call, call out, recite, read, cry out, proclaim
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to call, cry, utter a loud sound
1a2) to call unto, cry (for help), call (with name of God)
1a3) to proclaim
1a4) to read aloud, read (to oneself), read
1a5) to summon, invite, call for, call and commission, appoint, call and endow
1a6) to call, name, give name to, call by
1b) (Niphal)
1b1) to call oneself
1b2) to be called, be proclaimed, be read aloud, be summoned, be named
1c) (Pual) to be called, be named, be called out, be chosen
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: a primitive root [rather identical with H7122 through the idea of accosting a person met]

BDB Definition:
1) to encounter, befall, meet
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to meet, encounter
1a2) to befall (figuratively)
1b) (Niphal) to meet, meet unexpectedly
1c) (Hiphil) to cause to meet
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: a primitive root, to encounter, whether accidentally or in a hostile manner

BDB Definition:
1) name
1a) name
1b) reputation, fame, glory
1c) the Name (as designation of God)
1d) memorial, monument
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: a primitive word [perhaps rather from H7760 through the idea of definite and conspicuous position]

BDB Definition:
Immanuel = “God with us” or “with us is God”
1) symbolic and prophetic name of the Messiah, the Christ, prophesying that He would be born of a virgin and would be ‘God with us’
Part of Speech: noun proper masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H5973 and H410 with a pronominal suffix inserted

Maybe I’m out on a limb, but something to think about.

Offline needhelp  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, September 18, 2013 4:07:52 AM(UTC)
Joined: 5/19/2011(UTC)
Posts: 197
Location: US

Thank you Mike. Your limb is comforting. I like it.
Makes sense.
I'm no good at translating. Obviously. So I quit
everything. Beats always getting it wrong or not
understanding and coming to the wrong conclusion.
There are too many questions on this
forum that are ignored, too many JamesH. Some
of us, I'm sure I'm not the only one who has to
struggle with our "surroundings" daily. I am sick
to death of hearing "Lord" and "Jesus" and "Christ".
The Holidays have always sickened me. Don't have
enough money to participate. Don't believe in
materialism or commercialism anyway. Who is stupid
enough to think a rabbit can s--t eggs, mine can't,
or a fat man can go down a chimney? The real
questions are in the Towrah. Always have been.
Maybe someday there will be answers. Maybe
someday people won't have to hide to ask them.
Maybe someday we'll be allowed to say Yahowah's
name out loud. Today is not that day.
Thanks for your time and thoughts. Thanks to James, too.
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