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Offline lassie1865  
#1 Posted : Friday, December 24, 2010 7:45:59 AM(UTC)
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Anyone see this youtube video analyzing the Hebrew alphabet?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lcZUZzsngc
Offline Richard  
#2 Posted : Saturday, December 25, 2010 7:45:51 PM(UTC)
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The film maker's use of the J-word and his allusions to the alleged writings of Paul as Scripture were bothersome, but the main information he shared was wonderful.
Offline cgb2  
#3 Posted : Sunday, December 26, 2010 5:55:00 AM(UTC)
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One thing I got out of it was further study into Early Hebrew Pictographs, specifically Aleph & Tav (Greek translation: Alpha-Omega). In the often multi-layered meaning of YHWHs words I found this interesting.
Aleph is OX head, and conveyes: Ultimate Sterngth/Leader/First
Tav is crossed lines and conveys: Mark/Sign/Covenant
And get the meaning of YHWH + Covenant.

Made me ponder, knowing "cross" is pagan symbol, if it originated only pagan, or instead something stolen and twisted that originated from YHWH.

Kind of show me that this huge list of no-no words needs a little more scrutiny....and certainly being dogmatic about the little things (like vocabulary) that could get in the the way and bog down being able to present the good news so a child could understand then grow from there.

Yeah I've learned so much this last year, especially erroneous things I've been taught, but I didn't come out of it all at once but little steps at a time. I've no way arrived and constantly discover new things, and so I should be far more gentle and patient when sharing with others.
Offline Noel  
#4 Posted : Saturday, January 15, 2011 6:05:17 AM(UTC)
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Hello James, could you help us?
When I quoted a long and amplified version of EX 20 7 ( from the YY radio program by Yada, to some christians basically telling them that their KJV was sadly lacking, I was unable to say exactly where the YY translation came from and therefore all the wind was removed from my sails.

Any ideas on a proper response to this >

Noel
Offline Richard  
#5 Posted : Saturday, January 15, 2011 6:17:49 AM(UTC)
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Noel wrote:
Hello James, could you help us?
When I quoted a long and amplified version of EX 20 7 ( from the YY radio program by Yada, to some christians basically telling them that their KJV was sadly lacking, I was unable to say exactly where the YY translation came from and therefore all the wind was removed from my sails.

Any ideas on a proper response to this >

Noel


Hi, brother.

I am not James, but I saw a James once on TV.

I wondered the same thing, so I started backtracking the Hebrew myself, using BDB. It looks like Yada has taken the root words and brought forth every possible meaning for each root word of every word in the passage. It is a long, tedious process. However, the doing of it confirms the validity of Yada's published results and magnifies the doer's confidence in the translation.

Be aware that Christians will immediately want to focus on Yada's credentials, his pedigree as it were, rather than on the information Yahuwah is presenting through him (and others). But if they'll do their own homework, they will see that Yada's translations are more reasonable than those of our English "Bibles". Just my 2 cents worth.

Richard
Offline James  
#6 Posted : Saturday, January 15, 2011 8:11:39 AM(UTC)
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flintface wrote:
I am not James, but I saw a James once on TV.


That was not me.

Noel wrote:
Hello James, could you help us?
When I quoted a long and amplified version of EX 20 7 ( from the YY radio program by Yada, to some christians basically telling them that their KJV was sadly lacking, I was unable to say exactly where the YY translation came from and therefore all the wind was removed from my sails.

Any ideas on a proper response to this >

Noel


As Richard pointed out, people will quickly attempt to assail Yada's credentials, which is an attack the messenger approach, because they can't attack the message. The best way I have found is to draw the conversation back to the salient point, and not Yada. To do this it is best to ignore the question about Yada, and simply give them words and definitions.

So for the Exodus verse you cited I would start by pointing out that every Hebrew dictionary holds that the primary meaning of nasa is lift up, and accept, not take, that take would be laqah, so if take was meant Yah had a perfectly valid word to use, and didn't.

Next is shem, which literally means Personal and Proper designation, so name is a valid albeit inadequate translation.

Then Yahuweh, which is written Yo Hay Waw Hay, and while there may be some discussion as to the exact proper pronunciation, we are 100% positive that it was not adoni or ba'al, so therefore no way it should be rendered LORD.

Then your God, elohiym, They got this one right.

Then comes shaw, a word which according to every Hebrew dictionary and Lexicon carries the connotation of desolate, and pertains to separation. Used as it is in this verse you get do not lift up the name of Yahuweh your God in a way that is desolate and separates.

Really the better you come to understand the words the more effective your argument will be. What I have given you is a cursory explanation of how KJV and others have mistranslated this verse. I find it is best at first to not overload them with definitions and word studies, but in order to be effective you need to have the rest of the explanations ready in your head, so that you can handle the challenges.

Beyond the fact that I didn't want to simply trust and rely on Yada's translations, this is why I started learning Hebrew, so that I could defend my positions on mistranslated verses, such as this.

My recommendation would be to start by checking Yada's translations. You can do this in a minimal way by using online lexicons and a Strong's Concordance. But to really delve into it you will need many resources. A good start is a Hebrew-English Interlinear and a copy of the Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semitic Domains: Hebrew. You could probably get both for around $60 if you hit up a bunch of Half Priced Books and dig for them, buying them new would be a lot more. Or save up a little money and get the Logos Original Languages package, its $320, but has everything you need to get started.

I hope this was helpful, if you have any other questions, or if there is anything else I can do please let me know.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline cgb2  
#7 Posted : Saturday, January 15, 2011 2:14:58 PM(UTC)
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Noel,
Very powerful free tools for study can be had at:
http://www.e-sword.net/
Then after installed load that puppy up under the "download" menu.

Being greatly annoyed by "the LORD" in most translations I also added this free ISR1998 for it at
http://www.isr-messianic.org/
and often use it to copy/paste on internet.

Nice tabs to change to other translations and find it most easy to use the +KJV as search engine since it has the strongs number beside every word and can easily see definitions on each off to the side. I generally don't trust strongs lexicon as much but can easily change tab compare Thayers (NT) or KBR but also really like AHLB for OT.

Also some good amplified NT translations are at http://www.thewaytoyahuweh.com/

$1500 LOGOs software would be nice, however this is way powerfull for free, and has given me confidence in checking those amplified translations. Also to see how poor most English translations are.

Although ISR is better than most, just this afternoon while studying Hebrew Matthew (du Tillet Hebrew) I thought I'd check the sign of Johah and the "belly of a fish" thing. Interesting the alternate possibility to this being a literal fish in the AHLB (and even Strongs although not as clear).

Offline cgb2  
#8 Posted : Sunday, January 16, 2011 1:42:08 AM(UTC)
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James wrote:

...Or save up a little money and get the Logos Original Languages package, its $320, but has everything you need to get started...

I must have been looking at the premium package. Looks like original languages is now $416
http://www.logos.com/pro...iginal-languages-library

That would be nice to have, but seems free E-Sword has a lot too.
Offline James  
#9 Posted : Sunday, January 16, 2011 5:00:02 AM(UTC)
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cgb2 wrote:
I must have been looking at the premium package. Looks like original languages is now $416
http://www.logos.com/pro...iginal-languages-library

That would be nice to have, but seems free E-Sword has a lot too.

E-Sword has a lot of good stuff, and I have used it too.

The OL has always been listed as $416 at the Logos website, but if you shop around you can find it for $316. I got mine on Amazon.

The Scholars Gold package would be real nice to have, but that's out of my current price range. I saved up for a year and got the OL as a birthday present to myself, and I don't regret it, it is such a wonderful tool for studying Scripture.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline Noel  
#10 Posted : Sunday, January 16, 2011 8:10:51 AM(UTC)
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Thanks, James,Richard and CGB2. Most helpful replies.

I guess that there is really no alternative for hard work on this.

N
Offline cgb2  
#11 Posted : Monday, January 17, 2011 7:50:51 AM(UTC)
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Noel wrote:
Thanks, James,Richard and CGB2. Most helpful replies.

I guess that there is really no alternative for hard work on this.
N


It can start out seeming that way....but with me quickly became almost an obsessive passion. One of my favorite things to do in my free time. So many jewels to uncover.
Offline James  
#12 Posted : Monday, January 17, 2011 8:53:48 AM(UTC)
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cgb2 wrote:
It can start out seeming that way....but with me quickly became almost an obsessive passion. One of my favorite things to do in my free time. So many jewels to uncover.

I concur, it's really too enjoyable to be considered work for me.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline FredSnell  
#13 Posted : Thursday, October 13, 2011 2:52:00 AM(UTC)
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Offline cgb2  
#14 Posted : Friday, December 16, 2011 2:08:22 AM(UTC)
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Seems good resource for comparisons of Masoretic and DSS here:
http://www.thewaytoyahuw...esearch/dead-sea-scrolls
Offline pilgrimhere  
#15 Posted : Sunday, February 19, 2012 1:40:54 PM(UTC)
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Those of you who have delved into Hebrew, could you offer suggestions/guidance? My wife and I have come to agree that some of our questions may not be answered to our satisfaction outside of available primary sources. Specifically, in learning Hebrew, is there a significant preference for ancient/modern? Are there Particular pros/cons among the range from free http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/7_home.html to expensive (r' stone)?

I appreciate all of you!
Offline James  
#16 Posted : Monday, February 20, 2012 3:07:48 AM(UTC)
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pilgrimhere wrote:
Those of you who have delved into Hebrew, could you offer suggestions/guidance? My wife and I have come to agree that some of our questions may not be answered to our satisfaction outside of available primary sources. Specifically, in learning Hebrew, is there a significant preference for ancient/modern? Are there Particular pros/cons among the range from free http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/7_home.html to expensive (r' stone)?

I appreciate all of you!


In my opinion learning Hebrew will help you less than purchasing several lexicons and interlinears and studying Scripture that way. Most here who have worked on translating couldn't carry on a conversation in Hebrew with a three year old. We use tools like Logos to examine each word and translate it. The problem with learning to speak Hebrew is that you will either learn the modern Hebrew, which isn't what Scripture was written in, or in the case of Biblical Hebrew most of the teachers will be religious who will teach you word for word translations which don't delve into the nuances of the words, and are often given a religious twist. The advantage of using Lexicons, dictionaries and interlinears is that you are not subject to just one persons view on what the word means.

If you check here you can see a couple of walkthroughs which show what i use for my translations. Yada uses a similar method only with more tools.

Hope this helps.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline pilgrimhere  
#17 Posted : Monday, February 20, 2012 4:53:01 AM(UTC)
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Excellent. Thanks James.

We had also looked into Logos and are contemplating that for reference. Something my wife mentioned was that she wanted a hardcopy to read of something like a parallel with readability alongside explanation so that the kids would see her with a book and know that she is reading rather than see her at the computer and have no idea what she is doing. Do you know of something that might work that way? I suspect that sort of thing would carry considerable compromise with it, but we are both still toddlers trying to find our balance.

Offline FredSnell  
#18 Posted : Tuesday, February 21, 2012 1:00:45 AM(UTC)
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Those with less qualifications find this site helpful, namely, me!

http://www.sacrednamebib.../kjvstrongs/STRINDEX.htm
Offline dajstill  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, February 21, 2012 1:33:38 AM(UTC)
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Here is what I purchased in book format:
http://www.amazon.com/Br...565632060/ref=pd_sim_b_8

It is the Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew English Lexicon

I also purchased the Strong's Hebrew English Lexicon for my Kindle for only $1.50

I want my kids to learn some Hebrew as well, so I purchased some resources for them including these: http://www.amazon.com/Ma...id=1329827505&sr=1-2

They are Hebrew Magnetic letters and really fun. They can now write the name of the Father and Son on the fridge with the magnetic letters. I am getting a large magnetic white board to put on the wall in their classroom (we home school) so we can learn 1 Hebrew word a week which should be neat.
Offline James  
#20 Posted : Tuesday, February 21, 2012 2:57:05 AM(UTC)
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Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew English Lexicon is a great lexicon, it's a part of the logos package that I use all the time.

If you are wanting to get hard copy books, that and a good interlinear would be a good place to start. The interlinear I use the most is the Lexham Hebrew English interlinear, but I think it is only available for Logos. I would say one is going to be as good as the other as long as it gives you the Lema, which is the root of the word which you can then look up in your lexicon. I would recomend eventually purchasing more lexicons and dictionaries, Strong's isn't great but it's good and cheap so you might pick up one of those. Vine's is another one you can get at a pretty decent price that is descent. The Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament is great to have, but might be a bit more expensive.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline Daniel  
#21 Posted : Tuesday, February 21, 2012 5:42:44 AM(UTC)
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dajstill wrote:
(we home school)


We are part of that cult, too!

;-)
Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
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