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Offline Walt  
#1 Posted : Saturday, October 29, 2011 6:10:28 AM(UTC)
Walt
Joined: 10/26/2008(UTC)
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Man

I'm looking for a menorah to light for Shabat, I would like to support an online "store" that is closer to truth than tradition. Any recommendations. I want one that isn't loaded with symbols like the star of David or fish symol ect...
Offline Walt  
#2 Posted : Saturday, October 29, 2011 7:27:35 AM(UTC)
Walt
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OK, looking further into the menorah in Scripture

And you shall make a lampstand of clean gold – the lampstand is made of beat- en work. Its base and its shaft, its cups, its ornamental knobs and blossoms are from it, and six branches shall come out of its sides: three branches of the lampstand out of one side, and three branches of the lampstand out of the other side; three cups made like almond flowers on one branch, with ornamental knob and blossom, and three cups made like almond flowers on the other branch, with orna- mental knob and blossom – so for the six branches coming out of the lampstand. “And on the lampstand itself are four cups made like almond flowers, with ornamental knob and blossom, and a knob under the first two branches of the same, and a knob under the second two branches of the same, and a knob under the third two branches of the same, according to the six branches coming out of the lampstand. “Their knobs and their branches are of the same – all of it one beaten work of clean gold. “And you shall make seven lamps for it, and they shall mount its lamps so that they give light in front of it.

Seems like they all ignore the almond blossom, flower being in the lampstand
Offline FredSnell  
#3 Posted : Saturday, October 29, 2011 11:14:54 AM(UTC)
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I think the "pure gold" reference, relieves me of making one. Besides, does anyone know where the original is? After shalom82 showed his handywork, I thought a great deal on this matter and thought to myself, "what was it's original intent?" Well I put the miqra'ey right there as my stand and the middle post (SHABUWAH) counting either way since many peoples of other lands count from right to left, it does not change no matter where you are, or who you are. Just my opinion. And besides, as far as I am concerned, I use no symbolism in anything besides what the 7 Miqra'ey's represent to me.

Walt, are you referring to, Aaron's staff (rod) in Numbers when you mentioned the almond blossoms?
Offline lassie1865  
#4 Posted : Saturday, October 29, 2011 2:22:41 PM(UTC)
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I could not find one that seemed just right. I visited a store in Denver that carries many styles; I asked for a "7-branched" menorah, and the salesman said that they only carry 9-light menorahs; he asked why I wanted a 7-branched one, and I replied: "because that is the way God designed it." Well, I guess I did not make myself real popular at that point. He said that it was "inappropriate" to have a 7-branched menorah since that was designed only for the Temple in Jerusalem. Any thoughts on that?

Anyway, in the meantime, I decided to collect 7 plain glass, long-stemmed candleholders which also have a plain glass "cup" at the top; I plan to buy little floating wicks to float on top of olive oil which will fill the cups; I will just stand the 7 candlesticks on the dining table in a row - some are a little taller than others. So, I hope to teach the granddaughters about the significance of the Menorah and the number 7.
Offline Walt  
#5 Posted : Saturday, October 29, 2011 3:39:43 PM(UTC)
Walt
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The almonds blossoms and other parts are in the description of making the lamp stand in Exodus 25 - just people never recite that far when describing it.
Not looking for a gold one - unaffordable even for a necklace sized one - brass or bronze will do.

The reason that Jews consider it "inappropriate" to have a 7 branch one is because oral law forbids it as does speaking Yah's name.

As far as where is the lamp stand now - I was reading an article that one of the Israel ministers asked the pope to return it, citing reports that it was in the vatican's archive basement with the other Temple treasures stolen when the Temple was destroyed by Rome. The pope denied knowing of it's whereabouts, saying that when the loot was hauled off, it was carried across the Mediterranean Sea in 14 ships, they hit a storm, and 1 ship capsized, and it was the one carrying the lamp stand.
Offline shalom82  
#6 Posted : Saturday, October 29, 2011 8:58:51 PM(UTC)
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You know I actually saw an online site that had a menorah that was modelled on the temple menorah. It may not be an exact word for word representation of the Menorah in the temple (by the way we were going to name our child Menorah if it was a girl....now it is looking like we are going to have Yerushalayim....snip snip), but then again how is a menorah that we could hope to afford anything like the temple menorah...and should we even presume that we should have a true temple menorah. Who am I to prioritize but I think things like the fact that the temple menorah is to be made from pure clean gold and its construction methods (being a hammered single piece) carry more weight than the almond blossoms (not to say they aren't important...I am sure they are very important). We will buy something that is more than likely cast brass. The best we can hope for is a very very very pale shadow of the real thing.....a mere reminder of the real thing and its significance. So being that that is the case....I think if you can find something that you are satisfied with....that serves tje main purpose of rememberance of scriptual significance and the secondary purpose of identification and in a way set apartness....then that is enough. Of course none of use would accept blatant disrespect (like a 9 branch menorah) And this is just me talking again....with no authority...just opinions....but the closer I got to the real thing....the more worried I would become. I would be absolutely scared to death to have a big huge pure gold hammered menorah in my house with almond blossoms and knobs and all along with the ministering items. It would make me just about wet my pants. In no way would that make me feel torah observant or comforted. That if I could be assured it was up to YHWHs specifications has no business in my humble dwelling. It belongs in His...and who am I to presume. If somebody knocked on my door and there was the golden lampstand with a certificate of authenticity signed by YHWH and witnessed by Moshe and Aharon....I would fall to my knees rather than say...oh sweet...finally a piece that goes with the whole living room motif. I would be talking to Father Yah in a rather distraught state. But this is not to say....don't get a Menorah. It isn't. I would love to have one. Unfortunately I can't begin to absorb that cost. But I am wondering this....I have a picture of the temple Menorah currently prepared by the temple institute that at least by the scriptual account is accurate or representative of what the Menorah looked like. At any rate it is far better than I could do. In China I took the picture to a Chinese print shop and had it blown up a bit and I framed it. I know it might not be as satisfying but I think that might be a more affordable option and a good first step for those with the inclination.

Now, if I could buy a Torah scroll....wowowwowow.....that would be awesome....a Torah scroll with no vowel pointing....one that was accurate. The day I received that I would cry. I think.
YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
Offline shalom82  
#7 Posted : Sunday, October 30, 2011 5:03:48 PM(UTC)
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I found a picture that was big enough while not sacrificing detail and image quality. I have no idea if anyone is interested or not....but I thought I would at least offer it. Not to say that there aren't better images out there or posters or pictures already available....all I can say is that I haven't seen them. Now to me this is nowhere near ready to be presentable for a framed picture that will no doubt be put on a prominant wall in the household....but I plan to change up things a bit. I am going to square up the menorah, make the backround entirely black and then add some flames to the lampwicks. It should look nice. I have done several images this way...but never an image this high in quality. I will start that maybe even tonight. I don't know how long it will take me....but I will give a heads up when i am done. But then again....if there is a brother or sister that is a professional or does photoshopping as an avocation....here is the image so they can tackle it....if they so desire. I hope somebody will that has a program that is better than what I have and has more talent than what I possess.

Edited by user Wednesday, November 2, 2011 9:20:40 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
Offline Walt  
#8 Posted : Monday, October 31, 2011 3:25:17 PM(UTC)
Walt
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Man

shalom82, very sound advice. My comment about the almond blossoms and parts isn't that I necessarily need the menorah I wanting to get have them, but that they seem to be left out of discussions on menorahs. Those verses seem to be left out when citing Scripture about menorah's. I never realized that they were part of the menorah till looking closer at what Scripture says.
I just don't want all the man devised symbols (star of Davis, fish, cross, each of the 12 tribes symbols ect..) on it. Plus only want it 8-12 inches.
Offline FredSnell  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, November 1, 2011 12:27:17 PM(UTC)
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I would think it more or less denotes the region. y/n?

Almond
a native of Syria and Israel. In form, blossoms, and fruit it
resembles the peach tree. Its blossoms are of a very pale pink
colour, and appear before its leaves. Its Hebrew name, _shaked_,
signifying "wakeful, hastening," is given to it on account of
its putting forth its blossoms so early, generally in February,
and sometimes even in January. In Eccl. 12:5, it is referred to
as illustrative, probably, of the haste with which old age
comes. There are others, however, who still contend for the old
interpretation here. "The almond tree bears its blossoms in the
midst of winter, on a naked, leafless stem, and these blossoms
(reddish or flesh-coloured in the beginning) seem at the time of
their fall exactly like white snow-flakes. In this way the
almond blossom is a very fitting symbol of old age, with its
silvery hair and its wintry, dry, barren, unfruitful condition."
In Jer. 1:11 "I see a rod of an almond tree [shaked]...for I
will hasten [shaked] my word to perform it" the word is used as
an emblem of promptitude. Jacob desired his sons (Gen. 43:11) to
take with them into Egypt of the best fruits of the land,
almonds, etc., as a present to Joseph, probably because this
tree was not a native of Egypt. Aaron's rod yielded almonds
(Num. 17:8; Heb. 9:4). Moses was directed to make certain parts
of the candlestick for the ark of carved work "like unto
almonds" (Ex. 25:33, 34). The Hebrew word _luz_, translated
"hazel" in the Authorized Version (Gen. 30:37), is rendered in
the Revised Version "almond." It is probable that _luz_ denotes
the wild almond, while _shaked_ denotes the cultivated variety.

Offline Richard  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, November 2, 2011 6:56:39 AM(UTC)
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Good intel, eH. Thanks!
Offline shalom82  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, November 2, 2011 9:25:06 PM(UTC)
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UserPostedImage

Well, this is what I was able to do. I apologize. I know there is some problems with the branches...but there is a point where in your attempt to improve you are actually just making things worse. I think the picture already suffers because of me trying to fix and tweak the branches. If someone has the ability to fix it I hope they will tackle it. At this time my eyes feel like I washed them with salt. I hope it is useful.
YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
Offline FredSnell  
#12 Posted : Thursday, November 3, 2011 4:30:13 AM(UTC)
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Wow, that took some work. It is pretty though and you did a good job on it in my opinion.
Offline mtommy  
#13 Posted : Thursday, May 3, 2012 11:03:53 PM(UTC)
mtommy
Joined: 5/1/2012(UTC)
Posts: 13
Location: Gosport

Thank you for all your advices. I was really unsure concerning this topic but now everything is a little bit clearer to me! A "7-branched" menorah would be awesome and I'm looking for one desperately!

Edited by moderator Monday, May 7, 2012 2:35:01 AM(UTC)  | Reason: removed advertisement.

Offline Smoda  
#14 Posted : Monday, July 2, 2012 6:41:28 PM(UTC)
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Location: Santa Clara, CA


I saw some here:

http://www.ajudaica.com/...ry/165/7_Branch_Menorah/

Just did a startpage search
Hope that helps.
please be patient with me while I try to figure this out....
Offline needhelp  
#15 Posted : Thursday, July 12, 2012 2:32:25 AM(UTC)
needhelp
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Location: US


Is the menorah represenative of the seven congregrations
of Revelation, or vice versa, or neither? Or maybe the
seven thousand years as well as the seven steps home.
Offline Mike  
#16 Posted : Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:41:25 AM(UTC)
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Needhelp,

I don’t think that it represents the 7 assemblies in Asia. It does represent the 6 + 1 (man + Yah) = perfection.

This is from YY:

This depiction of the Menorah’s characteristics match the Set-Apart Spirit’s attributes. “He [Aaron] shall place (‘arak) the purifying, cleansing, renewing and restoring (taher) menorah (menowrah – from minhah, gift, and ‘owr, light) luminary (ner – lamp stand) perpetually (tamid) before the presence of (paneh) Yahowah .” (Qara’ / Called-Out / Leviticus 24:4) Being continuously immersed in the Spirit’s cleansing and perfect light is the only way to come into the presence of Yah.
The reason the six plus one configuration of the menorah isn’t designated here is because it was detailed in Exodus 25:31-40. That explanation begins: “You shall make (‘asah) a purifying, cleansing, restoring and renewing (taher) menorah (manowrah – gift of light) from gold (zahab), fashioning the menorah by hammering Her (hi) out (miqsah)—Her (hi) base (yarek), Her (hi) branch (qaneh), Her (hi) shoots (perah), Her (hi) cups (gavia’), and Her (hi) upright pillar (kaptor) by reason of (min) Her (hi) existence (hayah).” (Shemowth / Names / Exodus 25:31)

The “Gift of Light” is symbolic of our Spiritual Mother and of what She does for us. We will come to exist forever because She enlightens and protects us and Her Garment of Light “purifies, cleanses, restores, and renews us.” This is all part of Yahowah’s six plus one plan of salvation, one predicated upon the Upright One’s sacrifice on the Upright Pillar.
Consistent with this message, perah, translated “shoots,” also means “to rise up and fly.” It is from pirhah, meaning “a gathering of people or offspring with a common nature.” Our Heavenly Father is speaking of His family being able to fly like spiritual beings. Vocalized differently, parah means: “to sprout, flourish, and to bear fruit,” and especially “to grow.” In our eternal nature, we gain dimensions and energy, becoming more like God.
While all English translations other than interlinears ignore the seven feminine references in this passage, most conclude by saying that the Menorah “is of one piece.” And while that would be symbolic of Yahowah being one, and would be consistent with the process of hammering the Menorah out rather than piecing it together, there is no basis for “one” or “piece” in the Hebrew text. Based upon the Hebrew words, the ending actually reads: “from her they shall be.” So it is a different truth being conveyed here. Oneness will have to wait one verse…

“Six (shesh – something bleached white, especially linen) branches (qaneh) shall extend (yasa’) from (min) her sides (sad), her three (salos – meaning to set apart and send away, extending oneself) menorah (manowrah – gifts of light) branches (qaneh) coming out of (min) one (‘echad – a singular unity)….” (Shemowth / Names / Exodus 25:32) When it comes to His pattern of six plus one, God is consistent. Everything meaningful is based on it. It is the key which unlocks the secrets otherwise hidden in Yahowah’s plan of salvation and its timeline. God provides many more details regarding the construction and placement of His Gift of Light. With each additional facet, He illuminates specific aspects of His plan and nature. Yahowah loves tangible symbols because they facilitate understanding. But to appreciate them, and Him, one has to pause on occasion (say once a week on the Sabbath) and camp out a while (say for seven days during the Miqra’ of Sukah) with Yah.

“Six (shesh – something bleached white, especially linen) branches (qaneh) shall extend (yasa’) from (min) her sides (sad), her three (salos – meaning to set apart and send away, extending oneself) menorah (manowrah – gifts of light) branches (qaneh) coming out of (min) one (‘echad – a singular unity)….” (Shemowth / Names / Exodus 25:32) When it comes to His pattern of six plus one, God is consistent. Everything meaningful is based on it. It is the key which unlocks the secrets otherwise hidden in Yahowah’s plan of salvation and its timeline. God provides many more details regarding the construction and placement of His Gift of Light. With each additional facet, He illuminates specific aspects of His plan and nature. Yahowah loves tangible symbols because they facilitate understanding. But to appreciate them, and Him, one has to pause on occasion (say once a week on the Sabbath) and camp out a while (say for seven days during the Miqra’ of Sukah) with Yah.

Shalom
Offline needhelp  
#17 Posted : Thursday, July 12, 2012 5:40:04 AM(UTC)
needhelp
Joined: 5/19/2011(UTC)
Posts: 197
Location: US


Thanks. I'm still working on the "hidden (extended)meanings
in the words". Some of them have a lot of surrounding words
to study. Septuagint gives the best description I think, but
doesn't have word resources or references. The Arch of Titus
is interesting but doesn't help study.
What part of YY did you get that piece from? I don't think I
have it. Thanks again
Offline Mike  
#18 Posted : Thursday, July 12, 2012 8:13:28 AM(UTC)
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The quotes are from YY Book 2: Invitations to Meet God Chapter 9 Sukah – Shelters.
Offline needhelp  
#19 Posted : Friday, July 13, 2012 2:02:10 AM(UTC)
needhelp
Joined: 5/19/2011(UTC)
Posts: 197
Location: US


Found it. Wrong folder. Getting better at making mistakes.


Found a new dictionary. At least new to me. Any ideas from
anybody? Think you can only download it. 4mb.

The Dictionary of Torah
Names and Words

http://www.crowndiamond....BHM.dictionary.1stEd.pdf
Offline FredSnell  
#20 Posted : Friday, July 13, 2012 3:57:07 AM(UTC)
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^
That's a great find, needhelp. Will enjoy looking it over tomorrow!
Offline needhelp  
#21 Posted : Friday, July 13, 2012 5:14:05 AM(UTC)
needhelp
Joined: 5/19/2011(UTC)
Posts: 197
Location: US

You may like this one, too.

http://www.crowndiamond....ctionaries/notaricon.pdf

78kb It is interesting

check out the whole page, all it is is downloadable
resources. Free

http://www.crowndiamond.org/public/
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