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Offline VinceB.  
#1 Posted : Saturday, September 10, 2011 5:54:02 AM(UTC)
VinceB.
Joined: 12/2/2010(UTC)
Posts: 228

Was Qayin working with the Adversary inspiration, responsible for the religion of Babylon?

I've read material, at various times over the years - and in my pursuit of the truth, as it relates to Qayin/Cain - actually, trying to tie it in as it relates to Adam and Chawah having a neshamah/nesamah (conscience - the means to relate with Yah, or side with the Adversary, know right from wrong, good from evil etc) and trying to make sense of it - trying to wrap my brain around the information Yah's provided us, and from His perspective.

I can better understand now, thanks to Yah's Towrah, YY, others, that there was a distinction between Yah's "Crowning Jewel" of Adam & Chawah, and subsequently so too with their twin boys Qayin & Abel being created/born with a neshamah/nesamah - and being enveloped in Yah's protective enclosure of the Gan of Eden, over and against the man and woman created on the sis/sixth day only having a nephesh (soul), one of which who's daughter/daughters Qayin would later marry, who were out building fortified cities as nature would dictate (instincts, and having a "survival of the fittest" mentality no different than migratory birds who'll relocate themselves based on the seasons...)...Adam and Chawah, as well as Qayin and Able, were to model Yahowah, and that special relationship they had with Him, to the other men and women created in Yah's image - that they to might be adopted into (since Yah does provide witness in the creation record itself of the 6+1=7 formula) Yah's family; why else would Yah place Adam and Chawah right in the middle of antediluvian Babylon, as it were, unless it was to be a witness?

Now to my point and/or questions-comments, and as I have read related to Qayin: is it possible that Qayin is the one responsible for the Babylonian sun-god religion? And that to the male and female made in Yah's image without a neshamah/nesamah (not knowing good from evil; their right hand from their left, again, as it were) would see/view Adam, Chawah, Abel, Qayin (anyone coming out of that Garden) as gods?

Qayin having joined with the Adversary, perhaps motivated by fear of someone going to kill him for having been the first murderer being banished from Yah's presence, despite what Yah told him, presented himself, as someone of a kind of lesser god, while promoting his mom and dad, even Abel, as the greater gods making up the pantheon of sun-gods associated with Babylon?

I understand Yah doesn't do anything in a vacuum - and that anytime Yah does anything really big, satan's there to twist it so as to create another 'religious' scam out of it - religions being man-made inspired by satan to give what satan wants: 'Worship' - satan always wants to be worshiped as if he were God regardless of the means facilitating the worship: baptists, mormons, Hindus, Muslims, Catholics Evangelicals - he flatout doesn't care, he only wants to be worshiped, and praised as if he were God while at the same time giving people like Qayin what they want: power, wealth, rulership over others for their own enrichments?

It seems clear to me Qayin joined with the Adversary, and like ha-satan beguiling Chawah, as with Paul - all those who mingle and twist truth and lies to push agendas/religions (balal) - united/inspired by satan, created the Babylonian pagan/satanic religion the world's been bamboozled that can find its 'roots' going all the way back to the beginning?

What do you all think - acknowledging that to know how the enemy operates helps us know and understand our Dad even better? Comments are appreciated...
HWHY
Offline VinceB.  
#2 Posted : Saturday, September 10, 2011 6:40:32 AM(UTC)
VinceB.
Joined: 12/2/2010(UTC)
Posts: 228

I don't know why when I made an edit to "Done with Questioning Paul" on another thread, my questions posted here was removed from being noticed by the forum too?

I was hoping some of you might have some information or ideas related to Cain being instrumental in creating Babel - as in mixing the truth of what he knew of Yahowah in the Garden with lies from the Adversary when he relocated to Nod east of Eden?

I thought to post to technical - but wanted to reiterate my question on the forum to get your take?

Thanks.
HWHY
Offline FredSnell  
#3 Posted : Sunday, September 11, 2011 5:59:03 AM(UTC)
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Good morning, Vince.
I was reading this on this beautiful morning and remembered your question about Cain. Thought this perspective was interesting. See if you can glean anything from it. It certainly has some considerations we should think on.

http://www.hartsvillenew...p;SubSectionID=4&S=1
Offline FredSnell  
#4 Posted : Sunday, September 11, 2011 7:27:19 AM(UTC)
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I often wonder howcome Cain himself was not held to this standard of Yahs.
Genesis
9:5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.
9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of Elohim made he man.

So Cain, not in His image went unpunished by Yah by not requiring his blood? I would find it very interesting if in the above article that if Satan begat Cain, and Ham begat Canaan, that there is something to it.
Genesis
9:21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.
9:22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.

We read what uncovering one's nakedness represents.
Leviticus
20:11 And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

I often wondered howcome it reads, as if by just seeing his father naked, brings a curse.
Genesis
9:24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
9:25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
Offline VinceB.  
#5 Posted : Sunday, September 11, 2011 8:30:07 AM(UTC)
VinceB.
Joined: 12/2/2010(UTC)
Posts: 228

encounterHim wrote:
I often wonder howcome Cain himself was not held to this standard of Yahs.
Genesis
9:5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.
9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of Elohim made he man.

So Cain, not in His image went unpunished by Yah by not requiring his blood? I would find it very interesting if in the above article that if Satan begat Cain, and Ham begat Canaan, that there is something to it.
Genesis
9:21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.
9:22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.

We read what uncovering one's nakedness represents.
Leviticus
20:11 And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

I often wondered howcome it reads, as if by just seeing his father naked, brings a curse.
Genesis
9:24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
9:25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.



Thanks, I'll check the site out; still working on Chay chapter...

So you have heard/read what I have as well: that Qayin/Cain was not of Adam's bloodline (though he would have been born with a neshamah he'd get from Chawah - that there was more to the fruit than just partaking of it...)...and the reason he so easily discard Yahowah's admonishions was because he really was of his father the devil literally and was being led by that influence that was so compelling and driven - just like Paul being so driven by the demons to push him and his revised version of the sun-god religion while the events of Pesach, Matsah, Birkurym and Shabuwa' were still fresh in that region of the world...

It's along the same lines that Cain/Qayin having joined his soul/nephesh with satan's spiritual nature created the sun-god Babylonian religion using what he knew of Yahowah, satan, Adam, Chawah, even Seth as the blue-print of his satanically inspired religion of sun-gods and goddesses while becoming Sargon I, also known as Sargon of Akkad/Sargon the Great around about the time just prior to the flood...to the man (made in God's image of Gn 1:26: male and female) whom it was, was heavy into human sacrifices and being the Babylonian religion that's plagued us ever since?

BTW, I'm not all that preoccupied with this stuff either - knowing time is of the essence I'm reading through Chay chapter of Book I, about to finish it, and have always wondered about Qayin being Sargon I and the one responsible for establishing the Babylonian religion. Of all the religious scams inspired by helel ben shachar, the babylonian one seems to be where he's put most of his eggs...
HWHY
Offline cgb2  
#6 Posted : Monday, September 12, 2011 7:51:15 AM(UTC)
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Woah hold the boat...Cain not of Adams bloodline?

Gen 4:1 And Aḏam knew Ḥawwah his wife, and she conceived and bore Qayin, and said, “I have gained a man from יהוה.”

Chapter 4
1And the man (‘Adam) became acquainted with (yada' - knew intimately) Chawah (chawah - one who gives and renews life, a tent shelter and tabernacle, and one who declares, interprets, and informs) his wife and woman (`issah), and she became pregnant (harah) and she brought forth (yalad – gave birth to) Cain (qayin – spear) and she said (`amar - spoke with a focus on the content to follow) „I have acquired (qanah – bought, and brought forth) a man (‘ish) according to Yahuweh.‟ 2And she increased (yasaph – added to) by bringing forth (yalad – giving birth to) his brother (ach – male sibling) Abel (Hebel – breath), and Abel existed (hayah) as a shepherd of (raah – one who cares for and feeds) a flock (tson – flock of small mammals) and Cain (qayin – spear) existed (hayah) as a worker of (abad – servant of) the soil (`adamah - ground).
Offline cgb2  
#7 Posted : Monday, September 12, 2011 8:00:54 AM(UTC)
cgb2
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but yet from this Cain could very well have been the first inventor of a stinking religion ;^)

Chapter 4
3-5Cain brought the fruit (pari - harvest) of the ground (`adamah - earth) as an offering (minhah) to Yahuweh and then Abel arrived with (bow' – brought with) the best (cheleb - most perfect) firstborn (bakor - first male offspring) from his flock of sheep (tso'n). Yahuweh was attentive to and accepted (sa'ah - was interested in and favorably regarded) Abel and his offering. But He ignored and rejected (lo' sa'ah) Cain and his offering. So Cain became awesomely (ma'od) enraged (harah - very angry and zealous, furious and incensed) and fell down (napal - bowed down, prostrating himself) on his face (paneh).
6-7Yahuweh said to Cain, `Why are you enraged and zealous (harah)? Why is your face fallen (lamah napal paneh `atah - why is your head down)?‟
„Why not (ha lo')?‟
„If (`im - whenever) you are good and do good (yatab - are pleasant, pleasing, and joyful) you'll find forgiveness and a high status (sa'et - the removal of guilt, raising up, standing up, dignity, splendor, honor, and majesty). And if (`im) you aren't (lo') good and don't do good (yatab - aren't pleasant, pleasing, and joyful) sin (hatta' - guilt upon missing the way) is crouching down (rabas) in the opening (petah - doorway). You are into (`atah `el) yourself, and your intense desires and impulses (tasuqah - uncontrollable emotions and feelings, strong cravings, the overwhelming urge for sex and dominance) are things you must learn to govern (masal - understand how to control).
8And Cain (qayin – spear) spoke (`amar - spoke with a focus on the content to follow) to Abel (Hebel – breath) his brother (ach – male sibling). And it came to exist (hayah) them being in (bihayahotam) the field (sadeh – cultivated area for growing), and Cain (qayin – spear) stood up (qum – rose up, when in a negative context like this, it conveys rose in opposition to, or was a foe to) towards Abel (Hebel – breath) his brother (ach – male sibling), and he killed (harag – put to death, usually implies intention, thus murdered) him.
Offline VinceB.  
#8 Posted : Monday, September 12, 2011 2:40:59 PM(UTC)
VinceB.
Joined: 12/2/2010(UTC)
Posts: 228

cgb2 wrote:
but yet from this Cain could very well have been the first inventor of a stinking religion ;^)

Chapter 4
3-5Cain brought the fruit (pari - harvest) of the ground (`adamah - earth) as an offering (minhah) to Yahuweh and then Abel arrived with (bow' – brought with) the best (cheleb - most perfect) firstborn (bakor - first male offspring) from his flock of sheep (tso'n). Yahuweh was attentive to and accepted (sa'ah - was interested in and favorably regarded) Abel and his offering. But He ignored and rejected (lo' sa'ah) Cain and his offering. So Cain became awesomely (ma'od) enraged (harah - very angry and zealous, furious and incensed) and fell down (napal - bowed down, prostrating himself) on his face (paneh).
6-7Yahuweh said to Cain, `Why are you enraged and zealous (harah)? Why is your face fallen (lamah napal paneh `atah - why is your head down)?‟
„Why not (ha lo')?‟
„If (`im - whenever) you are good and do good (yatab - are pleasant, pleasing, and joyful) you'll find forgiveness and a high status (sa'et - the removal of guilt, raising up, standing up, dignity, splendor, honor, and majesty). And if (`im) you aren't (lo') good and don't do good (yatab - aren't pleasant, pleasing, and joyful) sin (hatta' - guilt upon missing the way) is crouching down (rabas) in the opening (petah - doorway). You are into (`atah `el) yourself, and your intense desires and impulses (tasuqah - uncontrollable emotions and feelings, strong cravings, the overwhelming urge for sex and dominance) are things you must learn to govern (masal - understand how to control).
8And Cain (qayin – spear) spoke (`amar - spoke with a focus on the content to follow) to Abel (Hebel – breath) his brother (ach – male sibling). And it came to exist (hayah) them being in (bihayahotam) the field (sadeh – cultivated area for growing), and Cain (qayin – spear) stood up (qum – rose up, when in a negative context like this, it conveys rose in opposition to, or was a foe to) towards Abel (Hebel – breath) his brother (ach – male sibling), and he killed (harag – put to death, usually implies intention, thus murdered) him.





Thanks for amplification cgb2...

There's not doubt in my mind that Cain did with Yah's Towrah (teachings, instructions, guidance, direction, and prescription for living), with its terms and conditions (mitswah) exactly like the nation Yisra'el repeatedly does: turning opportunity to engage Yahowah in a family covenant relationship into a religious ritual (having no more desire to have a serious relationship with God, than Christians [all religions] today want, and this with their errant biblos promoting Paul above all - from Gn to Rev.) I realize they didn't have golf nor NFL football back then, but nonetheless, every generation has its preoccupations/priorities that just so happens to be the reasons they can't prioritize Yah first - unless as people tend to want it these days: it comes in the form of a 'Happy Meal' - thus another 'stinking religion'...all religions stink and I'm working my way out of two of the worst: RCC and Pentacostal Evangelicalism; not to mention these two religions do tend to lean social secular humanistic when it seems convenient, just as their founder Paul went about doing things.

Insofar as Qayin and Hebel - yasaph means added to and increased, can also mean continue, continued; and the "And she..." of verse 2 seems to speak that the birth of Qayin and Hebel were happening back-to-back, as in "during the sametime/ during the same event", as in giving birth to twins - fraternal twins? They could have been identical twins for all I know the difference being how they approached Yah relationally/familiarly or only as a religion-religiously...reading through YY's Tarowah Yowm Kippurym and Sukah chapters most resently, I recall there being a distinction made between the adam adamah and the ha-Adam and the realms in which the adversary operates (but I can't find the specifics, perhaps someone knows? and can find it before I do?...I'll keep looking), there being a compelling distinctions/classifications of mankind/humankind - and in the same verse depicting Hebel's birth is as you cited: "...and Cain (qayin – spear) existed (hayah) as a worker of (abad – servant of) the soil (`adamah - ground)." 'adamah' being the realm in which helel ben shachar among mankind/humankind as a kind of 'base of operations' is what I recall reading from those chapters of YY regarding the upcoming Fall Feasts...again, I hope I can find that area in YY's Taruwah Yowm Kippurym and Sukah chapters, wherever it is, that makes a distinction between the three states of man's existence...if push comes to shove, I'll check my notebook since I recall taking notes too.

Also, we know/heard/read about the nephilim and sons (ben) of God (elohym) with bath/daughters...and skeletal remains of individuals over 10' tall - and grapes clusters being carried between two men hanging from a branch Num 13...etc - so as I said before, I've been curious about Qayin being Sargon I establishing a religion using his parents and Yah as the models of his pantheon gods before the adam, male & female formed without a neshamah being very susceptible to such bamboozelings.
HWHY
Offline VinceB.  
#9 Posted : Monday, September 12, 2011 3:50:36 PM(UTC)
VinceB.
Joined: 12/2/2010(UTC)
Posts: 228

Found it - it's in YY Book II Called-Out Assemblies chp 8 Kippurym in describing the adversary and the malak who sided with him's response to a question, from ZakarYah(remember Yah)/Zechariah 13:5,

"So (wa) he will say (‘amar), ‘I am not a divine messenger or prophet (nabi’). I am an individual (‘ysh - person) who serves (‘abad - works or is a slave to) the realm of mankind (‘adamah - the descendants of ‘Adam, the soil, the earth, or the world). For indeed (kiy), from (min) my youth (na’urim - childhood) I have made merchandise of (qanah - possessed and owned) humankind (‘Adam - mankind).’" (ZakarYah / Zechariah 13:5)

And I agree there's a distinction being made in the comments that follow: "The most direct translation of the first part of the verse is "I am an individual who works the soil." But, since Hebrew has a specific word for "cultivated land, field, or tilled soil," I’m convinced that ‘adamah should properly be rendered with its secondary meaning which is the "realm of mankind." This is further advanced by the subject context and the choice of ‘ysh and ‘Adam on either side of ‘adamah..." Yada Yahweh Called-Out Assemblies chapter 8 Kippurym.

You can find this about half way down the page...





HWHY
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