bitnet wrote:Shalom,
Matthew, looks like you may have a friend in Sao Paolo! Anyway, what I wanted andrergsanchez to note is that ultimately it boils down to choice: life, death or punishment.
Except nobody chooses punishment. From what I recall, Satan chose to reign in heaven, not to be bound in hell. What you tell me is that they chose a path, and at the end of that path is punishment. The only one choosing punishment in such a case is God, because he is the only one with choice regarding what is at the end of that path.
Quote:For most of us here, we choose life. Many who have not been given the choice shall be given a choice according to their works when the time comes.
And little babies? Young children? Aborted fetuses?
Quote:Those who continue to put themselves as gods, teaching that anything other than the Creator should come first, shall face retribution. Does this make the Creator a sadist? No.
Uh... yes, it does. God does not need to punish such people. He can annihilate them, or he can even reward them. If he inflicts pain, and in such a way that it is final and eternal, then the only reason must because he wants to inflict pain. To want to inflict needless pain is sadism, regardless of who the one involved is.
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We too are given choices. Thankfully we have it slightly better then the fallen angels. But this is also because we are made lower than the angels. How do we know all this? From the Scripture that you are suspicious of.
Yes, and such things are precisely -why- I am suspicious of them. I don't understand them. I'm not asking to know all the mysteries of the universe, but the salvation of my soul should make sense. Would God have made man so little that he could not make sense of that which is most important to him?
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If there was no Scripture we would not know anything. Without Scripture we would be walking in the dark.
Regardless of the validity of the scriptures, God is the light that erases darkness, not them. To worship a book seems as idolatrous as worshiping a golden calf to me.
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Our current practices of governance are loosely based on the laws given by the Creator, without which we would steal, murder and covet each other's possessions.
As a society, that is precisely what we do now. However, on a cruder level, societies that did not have access to scripture have had laws against murder and theft, even envy. They are universal and easily derived from the nature of life in society.
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Of course without the Word we surely can still talk to Him, but what about? Each would ask something for their own benefit without due consideration for the next person.
I came to the conclusion that to pray for another person is innapropriate. It demonstrates lack of faith, as if God were not already looking after them, and all he was waiting for was for someone to remind him to do so. To ask him for things is slightly less innapropriate, because while God is also looking after you, what you are doing is less making a request and more acknowledging that he is the source of everything, and saying that you would accept his gift, whatever that may be. Mostly what I do on a day to day basis is thank God and acknowledge his presence. Our relationship with God is a personal one, is it not?
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He wants to give us eternal life. Life is a gift. Not a curse.
That is exactly what I keep saying.
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And decide not to put anything above Him, not even life itself, however sacred we may think it to be.
I ask again what that means, because I don't understand it.
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Abraham was ready to give the life of his only son, and Abba Yahweh did give up the life of Messiyah Yahushua for us. That is the paramount story here in all of Scripture.
I also do not understand in what way Yahushua was a sacrifice, nor why a sacrifice had to take place. He (supposedly) lives, after all. It is the miracle of him having come back to life and the promise that so may we, that seems most central to the scriptures. The conquest of death through God.
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We need to trust Him.
It is because I trust God that I have trouble accepting this as an accurate depiction of him. I trust God before I trust the Bible (you will excuse me if I use the more commonplace word), and certainly before I trust an interpretation of the Bible.
Quote:If we think that He is being unfair to the billions of souls who have not heard His voice, we judge Him prematurely as surely He has a way for them.
Yes.