logo
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
View
Go to last post Go to first unread
Offline EI  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, May 19, 2010 10:13:57 AM(UTC)
EI
Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 98

James tells us that if any of us lack wisdom to ask our Heavenly Father who will give liberally , not being double minded, but in faith. As a father of too many children to count(lol), in dealing with my children I always think about what would Yahweh/Yahshua do. How does he want me to react. I speak to my heavenly father about this often. I know that sometimes he can speak to us through others, especially those who are committed to following his ways (though I must admit sometimes our Elohim uses even non believers). i hope and pray he uses you. Any thoughts from everyone would be useful....



This weekend my wife and I got into a 'disagreement'. My 4 year old is on a dance/tap team. they had a show this weekend. She wanted to put 'lip gloss' basically lip stick on her for the show with blush. It goes without saying I objected and there was a scene that followed. Can someone please tell me why it is important for a 4 year old to wear color lip gloss(basically lip stick) and blush???? She is four!!!! I told my wife that if my daughter walked out on that stage with anything on her lips and face I would get up, walk on the stage, and take her off. My daughter did not want my wife to put the lip gloss on her lips. During the performace she did not have it on. However, unfortunately I could not go into the 'dressing room' (no men allowed), which my daughter had to take a picture with her team. My wife put the lip gloss and the blush on her before she took the picture in the dressing room. Later on (yesterday) I found the picture by accident. You could actually see my daugher was unhappy. She was not smling at all and had a very disappointed look on her face. Ofcourse, I proceeded to RIP IT UP!!!! Case Closed!!!!

What do you think? Was I wrong? Was I standing up for something that our Messiah really does not care about?

F.Y.I. Pre performance, my wife and I did speak about it and I told her I object and the reasons why I objected.
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, May 19, 2010 12:52:16 PM(UTC)
Robskiwarrior
Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,470
Man
Location: England

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
This is a complicated issue for many reasons. The world is a bent place - kids want to grow up too fast and parents making them doesn't help, I mean the media and toys do enough for them lol. If it was me I think I would have been with you on that one, I would have not agree'ed that my daughter wore make up on stage... thankfully both my daughters were far to scared to get on stage like that.

Anyway - I think the real issue is the damage it causes. The act of putting make up on is merely, well, an act... kids are kids - and in the context of a show, well at least it was just a dance troop.

I think the real issues lie with what your daughter takes from it, and how she is influenced. I think in my case as long as my daughters understand my feelings and why (yea it's hard to talk to a 4yr old like that - mine are 8 and 6) it does a heck of a lot more good than the other front they see. If you look from your kids eyes, and her innocence, she's seen a day that she was looking for her parents to be proud of her - to see their smiling faces and hear their praise afterwards, to find that confirmation and to build those memories.

Now I don't know what when on other than what you wrote but I would be more worried about all her practice and the big day being destroyed by her "stupid parents" who just "don't understand her anyway" and "only care about themselves..." Kids don't see the why's and what's, and even if they do they feel like it's not fair instantly, especially at 4... lol - and if all they see is 2 pissed off parents upset over a day that was special to her I think that does more damage than any amount of make up.

So although I agree the make up is something that needs to be looked at - I think it needs to be weighed against the other issues that can suddenly become lost within the one focuses on. I suppose the real question is why was she unhappy in the pic? Because your wife put on the make up to take the pic? or because the unfolding events she really didn't understand... personally, from my POV, I would put the make up in second place...

And for the record - I am not by far the best father in the world, my fuse is far too short and I don't explain myself enough to my kids who normally see me loose it.

Sorry if that was harsh in anyway - I don't have all the facts, I was just trying to bring another perspective, please tell me to jog on if required. :)
Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Offline EI  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, May 19, 2010 2:48:13 PM(UTC)
EI
Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 98

Robskiwarrior wrote:
This is a complicated issue for many reasons. The world is a bent place - kids want to grow up too fast and parents making them doesn't help, I mean the media and toys do enough for them lol. If it was me I think I would have been with you on that one, I would have not agree'ed that my daughter wore make up on stage... thankfully both my daughters were far to scared to get on stage like that.

Anyway - I think the real issue is the damage it causes. The act of putting make up on is merely, well, an act... kids are kids - and in the context of a show, well at least it was just a dance troop.

I think the real issues lie with what your daughter takes from it, and how she is influenced. I think in my case as long as my daughters understand my feelings and why (yea it's hard to talk to a 4yr old like that - mine are 8 and 6) it does a heck of a lot more good than the other front they see. If you look from your kids eyes, and her innocence, she's seen a day that she was looking for her parents to be proud of her - to see their smiling faces and hear their praise afterwards, to find that confirmation and to build those memories.

Now I don't know what when on other than what you wrote but I would be more worried about all her practice and the big day being destroyed by her "stupid parents" who just "don't understand her anyway" and "only care about themselves..." Kids don't see the why's and what's, and even if they do they feel like it's not fair instantly, especially at 4... lol - and if all they see is 2 pissed off parents upset over a day that was special to her I think that does more damage than any amount of make up.

So although I agree the make up is something that needs to be looked at - I think it needs to be weighed against the other issues that can suddenly become lost within the one focuses on. I suppose the real question is why was she unhappy in the pic? Because your wife put on the make up to take the pic? or because the unfolding events she really didn't understand... personally, from my POV, I would put the make up in second place...

And for the record - I am not by far the best father in the world, my fuse is far too short and I don't explain myself enough to my kids who normally see me loose it.

Sorry if that was harsh in anyway - I don't have all the facts, I was just trying to bring another perspective, please tell me to jog on if required. :)



Robski,
1. Thank you for chiming in Robski on a very difficult subject/issue. I knew I could count on someone if not many to speak as they are guided. You understand the situation I have placed my self in and for that what you have to say is very important in me. I also know that you love YHWH with all of your heart, mind, and soul; which also makes what you have to say valuable. Your right, this world is a ‘bent’ place.
2. I definitely agree with you , that is the major issue (what she takes from it); crossed that with the world today and the influence from media, other kids, teachers, family; all pointing to the way opposite the one the leads to our heavenly father; I would argue it is even more important to stand for what is right! I believe as parents we need to show our kids where we stand on these issues, in word and action. Thankfully YHWH has given me the ability to speak to my children, and 97% of the time I am not losing my temper with my kids. During this whole ‘confrontation’ I did not lose my temper, holler, or even show anger in addressing it. However, my daughter; both of them, and even my son were able to see where I stood and hear why I stood there, even if they do not understand completely. When they are older and they have to make a decision to follow YHWH or not like the rest of us they will look back and see that daddy was uncompromising; that he was able to love, cherish, communicate, value our hobbies but when it came to following the world or following YHWH, well; let’s say I work everyday by his power to be sure my kids see the line drawn in the sand. Let me say that we need not put the worries of whether kids feel things are fair in rivalry with the word. As a matter of fact that may be a golden opportunity to sit and speak to them and help them to understand the unfairness of life. I praise YHWH that my kids did not see a ‘pissed’ off me; I would agree with you this would not be good. As it is written, be swift to hear, slow to speak, and slow to wrath; for the wrath of man does not produce the righteousness of Elohim. She still participated in the show, had fun, was smiling (except in the picture), got to sit in daddy’s lap the rest of the show while we watched and I was able to tell her how wonderful she did and more importantly I was able to tell her how we will praise YHWH for giving her the opportunity to perform, keeping her injury free; it was a wonderful opportunity for him to be esteemed.
I truly believe was unhappy because my wife had put the make up on and to me that is a good thing!

3. I have to disagree with you on this point in the context of how the situation was dealt. I believe it was a wonderful victory for our Elohim. She enjoyed the whole show, and she even told my wife that she did not want the make up on. She also told her that make up is not important. She says that YHWH is important. I will have to continue to stand in these issues brother, so my daughter understands not to love the things of this world. Kids need us to tell them and demonstrate truth. They respect that more than we know and I believe YHWH is fighting for me, who shall I be afraid of.

4. I am sure you are a wonderful dad. You have a great father who you follow. We all have our ‘thorns’? I praise my heavenly father for my thorn. It is because of her my relationship by his grace is where it is now.

5. Please, do not jog on Robski. I truly value what you have to say. I know I have been really absent in the last two years in regards to posting much as I was battling my thorn daily, trudging through school, raising kids; but I always remember that when I did post you would always reply to me and you would always at least appear to be happy to hear from me. Things like that mean something to me my brother.
In my family robski (talking of my brothers/sisters/mom) we have a thing that if we ask for each others opinion on something we know that what is said will be said regardless of what you may want to hear. We are brutally honest. I thank you for your candor.

We also must take into account the gravity of my situation. I may be in a situation that just can’t afford me to be very compromising.(and you are relatively aware of the situation) And I tell you what; YHWH knows how to pick em!!


Offline Juski  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, May 19, 2010 7:19:53 PM(UTC)
Juski
Joined: 7/6/2007(UTC)
Posts: 114
Location: Salford, UK

Hi EI

Just wanted to add a little thought

If we want our daughters to be women of Yahweh then the most important thing is that they know the love and acceptance of their own fathers. In many girls who have low self worth and get themselves into bad situations, teen pregnancy, drugs etc they don't have a dad around or have dad's who don't invest the time in their daughters. I watched an interesting documentary a while ago about a mormom family, and the dad in that family had regular "date nights" with each of his daughters. He spent time with them, showed them affection and approval. The girls felt valued and loved by their dad so didn't go looking for that approval/affection in the wrong places. It really highlighted to me the real importance of dad to little girls.


On the make up front- our girls have play make up which they use in the house sometimes, but I make them wash it off before we go out. Not in a big deal kind of way, just matter of factly. They really like nail vanish too which I hate (I really don't like seeing little girls dressing older than they are) but as a compromise they are allowed it in school holidays if they ask. I think in the context of a show then a little makeup is fine but not essential. I get really worried about the clothes on market for little girls - mini skirts, revealing tops - its sick and I refuse to allow my children to wear them because they send out totally the wrong message. Hopefully as they get older they will understand more fully why its not a good idea. I hope that my own lifestyle and choices will provide a positive example to them of appropriate clothing and behaviour. I am sure that your daughter will grow into a fine woman of Yah because of your positive influence in her life.
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, May 19, 2010 9:36:14 PM(UTC)
Robskiwarrior
Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,470
Man
Location: England

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Haha yea completely - your situation is one that amazes me ever time I think about it! I am pretty sure I wouldn't be able to cope.

obviously like I said - I didn't have all the facts, just trying to bring another perspective - but I am glad you could disagree :)

Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Offline danshelper  
#6 Posted : Thursday, May 20, 2010 6:20:26 AM(UTC)
danshelper
Joined: 11/30/2009(UTC)
Posts: 196
Location: Gettysburg, PA

EI,

I don't know your situation as obviously Rob does. From your posts it seems that your wife may be the "thorn". Maybe she does not walk with YHWH as you do? So, she may not understand (or agree) that the make-up isn't the primary issue - respect for authority is the greater issue - the one that has the greater impact on your children.

Since you love YHWH, you obviously know that as the husband/father you represent YHWH in the family unit. You and your wife have the primary responsibility and the greatest influence over your children to teach/encourage/exalt reverence and respect for YHWH. A husband's self-sacrificial, servant leadership and a wife's respect for her husband, through support of and submission to his leadership/authority, is the closest and primary example of love and respect for YHWH that children will ever see. Yahushua is the example/impetus for husbands in servant leadership toward wives as so well articulated in Ephesians 5. He is also the example/impetus of reverent submission for wives toward husbands as expressed in Hebrews 5:7 and every other place where He trustingly submitted to the Father's will.

Marriage strength through a husband's loving leadership and a wife's respectful support of that leadership is so "politically incorrect" in our times because of feminism - and abuses of authority. A wife's submission to her husband's authority is pegged by the world as weakness and inferiority, but according to our Creator, it is entirely the opposite! In Proverbs 31:10, it is defined by the word (chayil) that means army, might, strength, power, capability, noble, excellence, etc. Who can possibly deny the power, strength and worthiness of being "helper" since it is the Set-Apart Spirit's designation?

For my husband and me, studying together YHWH's roles for husbands and wives was one of the greatest blessings and strengths to our marriage and child-rearing. We both came from "dysfunctional" backgrounds when it comes to marriage and I was certainly a thorn to my husband for many years. Not having good examples and being the sinners we are, we struggled in our marriage and family until we began together to seek YHWH's wisdom and truth. 30+ years of marriage later and two grown children who are on their own journey "seeking his kingdom and his righteousness" - we are so thankful.

I pray that YHWH would bless you and your wife with great joy of understanding in marriage. And be encouraged - thorns are on the stems of roses!

And congratulations on your doctorate!
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#7 Posted : Thursday, May 20, 2010 6:58:34 AM(UTC)
Robskiwarrior
Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,470
Man
Location: England

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
EI Won't mind me saying this because it is already on the forum, but just to bring you up to speed with what seems to be insider knowledge... His wife and her family are Muslim.
Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Offline EI  
#8 Posted : Thursday, May 20, 2010 3:25:47 PM(UTC)
EI
Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 98

Hey Juski

I actually think my wife mentioned the documentary that you referenced to me. My wife did not have a father. Anyway, your point has much validity. I guess I have to admit sitting through tea time with the 4 and 2 year old daughters can be quite entertaining. Personally, my father disappeared on me when I was 13, however, when he was there he treated me very badly. Use to tell me all the time how much I wasn’t his son and he would kill me…. N E way, sometimes I try to be cognizant whether I am over compensating in regards to love and affection secondary to my childhood experience growing up. Even with my six year old son I show extreme affection.

Thank you for taking the time and chiming in.
I also know that I can be a ‘special’ case in many instances. I truly try to compromise and I constantly ask Yah for wisdom on how to respond to my kids. It is something that, as we all realize, could mean the difference between a foundation that will build them up to everlasting life or one that will crumble down to Halal and the boys. That is why I appreciate all of your comments because I truly analyze and pray on it. May we continue to strive to be like the ultimate parent. I truly have faith that Yah will allow them to see the example, HE is my only hope.
Offline EI  
#9 Posted : Thursday, May 20, 2010 3:53:59 PM(UTC)
EI
Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 98

danshelper wrote:
EI,

I don't know your situation as obviously Rob does. From your posts it seems that your wife may be the "thorn". Maybe she does not walk with YHWH as you do? So, she may not understand (or agree) that the make-up isn't the primary issue - respect for authority is the greater issue - the one that has the greater impact on your children.

Since you love YHWH, you obviously know that as the husband/father you represent YHWH in the family unit. You and your wife have the primary responsibility and the greatest influence over your children to teach/encourage/exalt reverence and respect for YHWH. A husband's self-sacrificial, servant leadership and a wife's respect for her husband, through support of and submission to his leadership/authority, is the closest and primary example of love and respect for YHWH that children will ever see. Yahushua is the example/impetus for husbands in servant leadership toward wives as so well articulated in Ephesians 5. He is also the example/impetus of reverent submission for wives toward husbands as expressed in Hebrews 5:7 and every other place where He trustingly submitted to the Father's will.

Marriage strength through a husband's loving leadership and a wife's respectful support of that leadership is so "politically incorrect" in our times because of feminism - and abuses of authority. A wife's submission to her husband's authority is pegged by the world as weakness and inferiority, but according to our Creator, it is entirely the opposite! In Proverbs 31:10, it is defined by the word (chayil) that means army, might, strength, power, capability, noble, excellence, etc. Who can possibly deny the power, strength and worthiness of being "helper" since it is the Set-Apart Spirit's designation?

For my husband and me, studying together YHWH's roles for husbands and wives was one of the greatest blessings and strengths to our marriage and child-rearing. We both came from "dysfunctional" backgrounds when it comes to marriage and I was certainly a thorn to my husband for many years. Not having good examples and being the sinners we are, we struggled in our marriage and family until we began together to seek YHWH's wisdom and truth. 30+ years of marriage later and two grown children who are on their own journey "seeking his kingdom and his righteousness" - we are so thankful.

I pray that YHWH would bless you and your wife with great joy of understanding in marriage. And be encouraged - thorns are on the stems of roses!

And congratulations on your doctorate!


I concur on all of the above. To study together, that would be a prayer come true, and a maybe a true relieve from heavy persecution, but again, I praise Yah for my thorn. I will continue to love my wife as Yahushua loved the eklessia, because that is what he calls me to do and I seek to do his will. Praise Yahweh for the understanding he has imparted on me in regards to just what it meant for him to love us first (even though we did not love him)

Five years ago one of the first verses my heavenly father gave me, james 1:2-4. Yahweh wisdom is that which I could never imagine. Almost like he knows the future or something.

Offline danshelper  
#10 Posted : Friday, May 21, 2010 6:39:10 AM(UTC)
danshelper
Joined: 11/30/2009(UTC)
Posts: 196
Location: Gettysburg, PA

Quote:
I actually think my wife mentioned the documentary that you referenced to me. My wife did not have a father. Anyway, your point has much validity. I guess I have to admit sitting through tea time with the 4 and 2 year old daughters can be quite entertaining. Personally, my father disappeared on me when I was 13, however, when he was there he treated me very badly. Use to tell me all the time how much I wasn’t his son and he would kill me….


It's just amazing to learn how many did not have fathers. My father died when I was 3.

Quote:
go looking for that approval/affection in the wrong places


That's what I did. But praise be to YHWH, He used the affliction of fatherlessness to deliver me (Job 36:15). Maybe in time EI, your wife will fully see/appreciate the father that you strive to be to your children and understand that all the wisdom and ability to be that dad comes from our Heavenly Father. YHWH bless you as you practice His chesed - steadfast, loyal love - in your family.







Users browsing this topic
Guest
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.