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Offline Theophilus  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, January 19, 2010 9:31:45 AM(UTC)
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I came across a curious application linked to Google maps which may give some insights on the destructive power of the massively weapons described in the tomes discussed here such as Futre History. The link is :

http://www.carloslabs.co.../200712B/GroundZero.html

It allows a user to map the effects of weapons as small as the US 15 kt "Little Boy" up through the Soviet 50 mt Tsar Bomba. For contrast it also shows the destrucitve power of the astroid impact linked to the extintion of the dinosaurs which dwarfs humankinds weapons by many magnitudes. It makes me wonder what the projected power of Apithnos would be?

It allows the designation of a target, slection of a weapon and mapping of the blast effects in map, satalite or hybred view.
Offline Matthew  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, January 19, 2010 10:12:24 AM(UTC)
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I watched a brief section on the Discovery Channel this weekend concerning the Apophis (Apsinthos) asteroid. They said a satelite is being sent to orbit it to better understand it, and then Russia are planning a mission to deflect it by flying an object (about the size of a washtub) directly into it (about the size of two football fields). What are the chances they'll increase the probability of an impact?
Offline edStueart  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, January 19, 2010 3:23:49 PM(UTC)
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Matthew wrote:
What are the chances they'll increase the probability of an impact?


Chicken or egg scenario.

If YHWH plans for that asteroid to hit earth, it will. No one will be able to change that. Not the Russians, not NASA, not Obama, not even Bruce Willis.

On the other hand, perhaps the Ruskie bathtub is part of the Divine plan...
"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free."
But first, it will piss you off!
Offline edStueart  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, January 19, 2010 3:32:52 PM(UTC)
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Theophilus wrote:
It allows the designation of a target, slection of a weapon and mapping of the blast effects in map, satalite or hybred view.


Hours and hours of fun for the whole family!

Will they develop a version that can be played on the Wii?
"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free."
But first, it will piss you off!
Offline In His Name  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, January 19, 2010 6:27:45 PM(UTC)
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My radio station had a guy on talking about the dangers of EMP. A small(ish) nuclear devise blown up in our atmosphere could essentially knock out all of the electronics on the continent. This is projected to wipe out 90% of the population within 12 months.

I guess the good news is, this doesn't sound like any of the tribulation calamities.


“Because he clings to Me, is joined to Me, loves and delights in Me, desires Me, therefore I will deliver him, carry him safely away, cause him to escape from harm making him inaccessible and strong, and delivering him safely to heaven, because he has known, observed, cared for, recognized, instructed and advised others to use, designated, acknowledged, discerned, answered in, My name, authority, character, report, mark, and nature." Psalm 91:14
Offline edStueart  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, January 20, 2010 2:22:33 AM(UTC)
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In His Name wrote:
My radio station had a guy on talking about the dangers of EMP. A small(ish) nuclear devise blown up in our atmosphere could essentially knock out all of the electronics on the continent. This is projected to wipe out 90% of the population within 12 months.


90% is a very pessimistic estimate.

Read "One Second After" for a description of a post-EMP world.
"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free."
But first, it will piss you off!
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, January 20, 2010 3:33:28 AM(UTC)
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edStueart wrote:


....not even Bruce Willis.



HERETIC!
Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Offline Theophilus  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, January 20, 2010 8:47:10 AM(UTC)
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edStueart wrote:
Hours and hours of fun for the whole family!

Will they develop a version that can be played on the Wii?


I'm not sure about the Wii, but did notice a WW-III PC game called Defcon at:

www.introversion.co.uk/defcon/

It reminds me of SAC's official and unofficial mottos:

"Peace Is Our Profession" .... "Nuclear War Is Our Hobby"

Offline Theophilus  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, January 20, 2010 8:55:41 AM(UTC)
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In His Name wrote:
My radio station had a guy on talking about the dangers of EMP. A small(ish) nuclear devise blown up in our atmosphere could essentially knock out all of the electronics on the continent. This is projected to wipe out 90% of the population within 12 months.

I guess the good news is, this doesn't sound like any of the tribulation calamities.




You might find this article on EMP useful:

http://www.fas.org/nuke/intro/nuke/emp.htm

Quote:
A high-altitude nuclear detonation produces an immediate flux of gamma rays from the nuclear reactions within the device. These photons in turn produce high energy free electrons by Compton scattering at altitudes between (roughly) 20 and 40 km. These electrons are then trapped in the Earth’s magnetic field, giving rise to an oscillating electric current. This current is asymmetric in general and gives rise to a rapidly rising radiated electromagnetic field called an electromagnetic pulse (EMP). Because the electrons are trapped essentially simultaneously, a very large electromagnetic source radiates coherently.

The pulse can easily span continent-sized areas, and this radiation can affect systems on land, sea, and air. The first recorded EMP incident accompanied a high-altitude nuclear test over the South Pacific and resulted in power system failures as far away as Hawaii. A large device detonated at 400–500 km over Kansas would affect all of CONUS. The signal from such an event extends to the visual horizon as seen from the burst point.


What I'm curious about now is how EMP effected the USA and USSR during the surface / atmospheric nuclear weapons tests? Why didn't this effect the electronics in these areas more generally?

Offline Mike  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, January 20, 2010 8:56:14 AM(UTC)
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NASA initially estimated the energy that Apophis would have released if it struck Earth as the equivalent of 1480 megatons of TNT. A more refined later NASA estimate was 880 megatons. The impacts which created the Barringer Crater or caused the Tunguska event are estimated to be in the 10-20 megaton range. The 1883 eruption of Krakatoa was the equivalent of roughly 200 megatons. The exact effects of any impact would have varied based on the asteroid's composition, and the location and angle of impact. Any impact would have been extremely detrimental to an area of thousands of square kilometres, but would have been unlikely to have long-lasting global effects, such as the initiation of an impact winter.
Offline In His Name  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, January 20, 2010 9:17:57 AM(UTC)
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edStueart wrote:
90% is a very pessimistic estimate.

Read "One Second After" for a description of a post-EMP world.

That's the guy that was on, the author of "One Second After".

His 90% number came from a committee of experts, politicians, etc.. (experts and politicians there goes credibility out the window) convened to study the issue. His book, a fictionalized account of an EMP occurrence was written to try to establish a constituency to drive legislation and funding.
“Because he clings to Me, is joined to Me, loves and delights in Me, desires Me, therefore I will deliver him, carry him safely away, cause him to escape from harm making him inaccessible and strong, and delivering him safely to heaven, because he has known, observed, cared for, recognized, instructed and advised others to use, designated, acknowledged, discerned, answered in, My name, authority, character, report, mark, and nature." Psalm 91:14
Offline In His Name  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, January 20, 2010 9:21:53 AM(UTC)
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Theophilus wrote:


What I'm curious about now is how EMP effected the USA and USSR during the surface / atmospheric nuclear weapons tests? Why didn't this effect the electronics in these areas more generally?



From what I understood from the radio program;That was an earlier time, before computers and advanced electronics, but even though there was far less solid state circuitry (?) there were some issues.
“Because he clings to Me, is joined to Me, loves and delights in Me, desires Me, therefore I will deliver him, carry him safely away, cause him to escape from harm making him inaccessible and strong, and delivering him safely to heaven, because he has known, observed, cared for, recognized, instructed and advised others to use, designated, acknowledged, discerned, answered in, My name, authority, character, report, mark, and nature." Psalm 91:14
Offline edStueart  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, January 20, 2010 11:41:26 AM(UTC)
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In His Name wrote:
That's the guy that was on, the author of "One Second After".



In his excellent work, he describes a perfectly executed EMP attack and a very slow reaction of the victims of the attack.

50% of the nuclear weapons used in war did not even hit their target cities. (The Nagasaki bomb missed the target by miles!) I doubt that AQ, the PLO or the NEA could do better than the US Army did in 1945 with regard to accuracy.
"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free."
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Offline In His Name  
#14 Posted : Wednesday, January 20, 2010 12:35:06 PM(UTC)
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edStueart wrote:
In his excellent work, he describes a perfectly executed EMP attack and a very slow reaction of the victims of the attack.

50% of the nuclear weapons used in war did not even hit their target cities. (The Nagasaki bomb missed the target by miles!) I doubt that AQ, the PLO or the NEA could do better than the US Army did in 1945 with regard to accuracy.


He seemed to be saying that one bomb detonated at the right altitude would cover most of the continent. That does sound out of the realm of possibility for muslim agents now, but what about 17 years from now? What about China or Russia? It didn't sound like we had any type of shield/counter measures deployed now and I doubt Washington is currently considering anything.
“Because he clings to Me, is joined to Me, loves and delights in Me, desires Me, therefore I will deliver him, carry him safely away, cause him to escape from harm making him inaccessible and strong, and delivering him safely to heaven, because he has known, observed, cared for, recognized, instructed and advised others to use, designated, acknowledged, discerned, answered in, My name, authority, character, report, mark, and nature." Psalm 91:14
Offline bitnet  
#15 Posted : Monday, January 25, 2010 3:59:12 AM(UTC)
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Shalom,

Anyone played Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 yet? I have, and there is a chapter titled Second Sun. Interesting how a nuclear detonation way above the clouds reaches across continents...
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
Offline edStueart  
#16 Posted : Monday, January 25, 2010 5:29:04 AM(UTC)
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bitnet wrote:
Anyone played Call of Duty Modern Warfare


I played the "home game" in the 1980's in Grenada and Beirut, as a Marine.

;-)
"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free."
But first, it will piss you off!
Offline Theophilus  
#17 Posted : Tuesday, January 26, 2010 2:30:02 AM(UTC)
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Quote:
50% of the nuclear weapons used in war did not even hit their target cities. (The Nagasaki bomb missed the target by miles!) I doubt that AQ, the PLO or the NEA could do better than the US Army did in 1945 with regard to accuracy.


So was Nagasaki hit or missed by an atomic bomb in 1945?

Quote:
On the morning of August 9, 1945, the U.S. B-29 Superfortress Bockscar, flown by the crew of 393rd Squadron commander Major Charles W. Sweeney, carried the nuclear bomb code-named "Fat Man", with Kokura as the primary target and Nagasaki the secondary target. The mission plan for the second attack was nearly identical to that of the Hiroshima mission, with two B-29s flying an hour ahead as weather scouts and two additional B-29s in Sweeney's flight for instrumentation and photographic support of the mission. Sweeney took off with his weapon already armed but with the electrical safety plugs still engaged.
Observers aboard the weather planes reported both targets clear. When Sweeney's aircraft arrived at the assembly point for his flight off the coast of Japan, the third plane, Big Stink, flown by the group's Operations Officer, Lt. Col. James I. Hopkins, Jr. failed to make the rendezvous. Bockscar and the instrumentation plane circled for 40 minutes without locating Hopkins. Already 30 minutes behind schedule, Sweeney decided to fly on without Hopkins.

By the time they reached Kokura a half hour later, a 70% cloud cover had obscured the city, prohibiting the visual attack required by orders. After three runs over the city, and with fuel running low because a transfer pump on a reserve tank had failed before take-off, they headed for their secondary target, Nagasaki. Fuel consumption calculations made en route indicated that Bockscar had insufficient fuel to reach Iwo Jima and would be forced to divert to Okinawa. After initially deciding that if Nagasaki were obscured on their arrival the crew would carry the bomb to Okinawa and dispose of it in the ocean if necessary, the weaponeer Navy Commander Frederick Ashworth decided that a radar approach would be used if the target was obscured.

At about 07:50 Japanese time, an air raid alert was sounded in Nagasaki, but the "all clear" signal was given at 08:30. When only two B-29 Superfortresses were sighted at 10:53, the Japanese apparently assumed that the planes were only on reconnaissance and no further alarm was given.



At 11:01, a last minute break in the clouds over Nagasaki allowed Bockscar's bombardier, Captain Kermit Beahan, to visually sight the target as ordered. The "Fat Man" weapon, containing a core of ~6.4 kg (14.1 lbs.) of plutonium-239, was dropped over the city's industrial valley. It exploded 43 seconds later at 469 meters (1,540 ft) above the ground exactly halfway between the Mitsubishi Steel and Arms Works in the south and the Mitsubishi-Urakami Ordnance Works (Torpedo Works) in the north. This was nearly 3 kilometers (2 mi) northwest of the planned hypocenter; the blast was confined to the Urakami Valley and a major portion of the city was protected by the intervening hills. The resulting explosion had a blast yield equivalent to 21 kilotons of TNT (88 TJ). The explosion generated heat estimated at 3,900 degrees Celsius (4,200 K, 7,000 °F) and winds that were estimated at 1005 km/h (624 mph).

Casualty estimates for immediate deaths range from 40,000 to 75,000. Total deaths by the end of 1945 may have reached 80,000.


It seems the answer was both. The weapon technically did miss the planned detonation point by two miles, and likely limited the casualties to some extant. Given high altitude bombing limitations in the 1940s it’s not stunning that it didn’t hit with the precision of a JDAM like smart weapon, but with 20kt + explosive yield, the fat man bomb did not need to be precise in order devastate the target city. Looking at the BDA photos at the link, I’m not sure that I’d call it a complete miss:

http://en.wikipedia.org/...f_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki
Offline Theophilus  
#18 Posted : Tuesday, January 26, 2010 2:31:25 AM(UTC)
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bitnet wrote:
Shalom,

Anyone played Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 yet? I have, and there is a chapter titled Second Sun. Interesting how a nuclear detonation way above the clouds reaches across continents...


So how was it?
Offline Theophilus  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, January 26, 2010 2:35:55 AM(UTC)
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edStueart wrote:
I played the "home game" in the 1980's in Grenada and Beirut, as a Marine.

;-)


"Home Game", is that what it's called now?

Ed, without violating national security, I was curious if the USMC trains in employing nuclear or tactical nuclear weapons, or if the joint chiefs decided against entrusting the Marines with nukes? Maybe the Corps is massively destructive enough already without them?
Offline edStueart  
#20 Posted : Tuesday, January 26, 2010 10:00:46 AM(UTC)
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Theophilus wrote:
"Home Game", is that what it's called now?


Yeah, like "contestants receive the home version of The Price Is Right, from Parker Brothers..."

Theophilus wrote:
Ed, without violating national security, I was curious if the USMC trains in employing nuclear or tactical nuclear weapons, or if the joint chiefs decided against entrusting the Marines with nukes? Maybe the Corps is massively destructive enough already without them?


My job had me working with artillery, tactical air and naval gunfire. The Marine artillery batteries had training in how to use tactical nuclear artillery projectiles. They were "dial-a-yeild" 155mm weapons. As I recall, the maximum yield was well under a kiloton. The training requirements for keeping the battery nuke qualified were onerous, and since The Battle of Fulda Gap never took place, it was all for naught. It takes a lot of training to get a Marine competent enough to set up a nuke for battlefield use. Remember, the Average Marine, standing in a sandbox, can ruin a steel crow-bar as soon as the Lieutenant's back is turned.

During our 'sandtable' exercises (wargames played out with just leadership and communicators, no troops) I would always call for a fire mission, requesting nukes on our own position, using my best Ronald Regan voice. Good times! Something that I had never thought until now was the fact that the Marine Air Wing didn't seem to have any nuke capability. I reckon that sort of thing was left up to the Air Farce.


"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free."
But first, it will piss you off!
Offline edStueart  
#21 Posted : Tuesday, January 26, 2010 10:20:02 AM(UTC)
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Theophilus wrote:
So was Nagasaki hit or missed by an atomic bomb in 1945?

It seems the answer was both.
[snip]
Looking at the BDA photos at the link, I’m not sure that I’d call it a complete miss:


Was it a direct hit, no, but it was close.

"Close" only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades and (wait for it) A-bombs.

(I've been waiting for years to use that line! It was in context even!)

;-)
"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free."
But first, it will piss you off!
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