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Offline Matthew  
#1 Posted : Thursday, October 15, 2009 12:02:08 PM(UTC)
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I saw the question "why is sex so good" and it got me thinking (in a clean way that is). For animals sex is instinctive, but for us humans sex is really enjoyable and we do it for pleasure. There's obviously some instincts involved, but that's besides the point for now. So can we say that Yahweh created us, His children, because it was/is a pleasureable experience for Him? I think we can, because we "create" offspring through the enjoyable experience called sex in order to extend our families. But it doesn't stop their, because when it comes to Chawah's curse, that of painful childbirth, we all know that it's an obvious metaphor for Yahshua's crucifixion, which in turn would give us life, eternal life.

So here we go:

1) God creates us because it pleases Him (and we know His reason is to have fellowship with His children), but for Him to have children they would need to born through a painful experience, hence Yahshua's crucifixion.

2) We create offspring because it pleases us too, it feels good and we do it for reasons of wanting to have children to fellowship with and extend our family size. But their birth comes through a painful experience as well, they personally don't feel the pain but their mother does. Can you imagine how the Spirit felt after departing Yahshua?
Offline James  
#2 Posted : Thursday, October 15, 2009 5:31:22 PM(UTC)
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Great way of putting Matt.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline sirgodfrey  
#3 Posted : Thursday, October 15, 2009 7:12:10 PM(UTC)
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Wow dude. Not sure if I really thought about things in this complete portrait. A friend of mine once said that he saw the Spirit as God's sperm creating children, giving us birth and life.
Offline bitnet  
#4 Posted : Thursday, October 15, 2009 9:52:42 PM(UTC)
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Shalom,

Yes, it is true... without the Set-Apart Spirit we are not conceived! When we are truly born into His Kingdom, we shall be like Him... Spirit. So, having the Ruach Qodesh in us now makes us His, but we still have to be born... and we have to make every effort not to be stillborn! Thinking along these lines... it seems a waste of thousands of sperm when only one is needed... but when we use this to reflect upon the existing situation, His Word goes out to so many but only a few have responded. How precious we must be in His eyes! No wonder the Father gets very angry in the end-days when the world persecutes His children to near extinction!
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#5 Posted : Friday, October 16, 2009 9:05:59 AM(UTC)
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I was thinking about this some more. You know that a pregnancy is 40 weeks? most give birth just before or after... but you are calculated based on 40 weeks.

I was also thinking sex is the creation which is enjoyable, but before you can get your hands on your children you have to go through some pain...

And another, probably a little more obvious - Chawah = Bringer of live or life bringer, she is female, the Spirit is our life bringer and yes we are to be born of Her and because She is Yah, through the pain that He endured.

just a few thoughts.
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Offline sirgodfrey  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, November 11, 2009 6:49:10 AM(UTC)
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My mother and I were talking, debating or whatever you call it last night. It continued on this morning, with me basically waking up to what I didn't necessarily want to wake up to. She said she had one question for me: Did the baby Jesus (no pun intended for those who have seen "Talladega Nights") have a "father." My reply was basically no. She said he had to have a father since He was a baby. If there was a mother, there must have been a father. Now coming to understand a number of the things I currently do about scripture, trinity, so and and so forth, I can honestly say that I don't think he has a "father." Someone please correct me if I am wrong. I told her that He was God - God manifested Himself, as a diminished being - writing Himself into our world (part of the convo last night) as a means to redeem mankind and bring about fellowship and relationship etc. Just because He was a physical baby at one point does not automatically constitute Him having to have a "father."

I brought up the point that Joseph could not be the father because of Him having Adam's tainted blood/sperm or what have you. So she retorted that Mary was also a descendent of Adam. She was asking why could not God be the "father" of the child as He is the one who caused Mary to be pregnant. My stand was, and currently is, that it was a miraculous event... and nothing more really. Yah did not "father" the child Yahushua as many people want to get at Him being a "Son." She told me I needed to look at 3:16 that states a "begotten son" and I was telling her that "begotten" means the same essence and nature, not like being born.


Comments brothers, sisters. Comments and critical analysis. Had to vent.

P.S. I mentioned "Father" and "Son" not even being in original manuscripts and she mentioned the word "abba." I said yeah, that means father. Just coming to think of it, when abba is used, the Messiah is speaking of when WE pray to Yah. .......
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:38:13 PM(UTC)
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Well I kinda see it as Jo adopted him, giving him full rights to Jo's birthright through his line - which I think somewhere his line was upserped from the throne and should have been king of Israel. If this is factual, which I am not sure because I have only heard someone tell me and not confirmed it myself, it would be a great picture of Yah adopting us into his family and our inheritance when becoming his child.

Also I heard another interesting idea from the same person. The sin is passed through the Father, back in the Garden Adam tried to blame Chava, where as Chava held her hands up and basically apologised. This could be more the reason that the men were asked to do the priestly roles as it was a picture more heavily of them atoning for their sin, where as Chava had absolved herself by admiting it - just as we are asked to.

this would mean that the seed would not be passed to Yahushua because Miriam was a virgin and there was no "seed of sin" in the line of woman, hence she could carry the child without passing on sin.

The above is completely speculative at the moment as I don't KNOW it well enough either way - and something I need to spend some time looking into, but its an interesting line of thought...

So I am not 100% on what I think at the moment in regards to this... that's the short of it LOL
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Offline James  
#8 Posted : Thursday, November 12, 2009 3:13:30 AM(UTC)
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Robski wrote:
Also I heard another interesting idea from the same person. The sin is passed through the Father, back in the Garden Adam tried to blame Chava, where as Chava held her hands up and basically apologised.

Chava didn't exactly just own up to it, she blamed the serpent, the same way Adam blamed her. The way I see it's not that he would be condemned if Joseph was the father, because Sin is not passed down from Adam (the idea of original sin), but a sinful nature is passed down, and Yahushua was able to overcome the sinful nature of his human body. Joseph couldn't have been the biological father, because Mariam became pregnant before she ever slept with him, or any man for that matter.

I agree with SGF, Yahushua didn't "really" have a biological father, Joseph was his adoptive father, but he was Yahuweh, or at least a part of Yahuweh separated from the whole and that entered into the body of a man. Yahuweh formed a human being in Mariam's womb, and then put a portion of himself into it, it was him, the body had no father, it was created.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#9 Posted : Thursday, November 12, 2009 4:40:20 AM(UTC)
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But Chava said in my very best James voice...

"The woman said, `The serpent (nahas - viper, poisonous reptile, and venomous snake) deceived and deluded me (nasa' - caused me to depart from the correct path by craftiness and trickery) and (wa - when) I ate.'"

She told the truth, exactly as it happened - where as Adam tried to pass the blame of his sin onto her, pointing the finger and trying to wiggle out of the situation.

If you see what Adam said as well, he hints at it being Yahuwehs fault:

12Adam said, `The woman (`issah) you gave (natan) to be with (`immad - in an association and relationship with) me, she gave (natan) it to me from the tree, and I ate.

The Woman, YOU gave me, she gave me it and I ate it.

There is difference in the way the 2 answered him - I just think this is interesting. Both obviously sinned, but Chava fessed up, Adam went "hey no way Bra, if you handent made her she wouldn't have given it to me, init, peace."
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Offline sirgodfrey  
#10 Posted : Thursday, November 12, 2009 5:07:59 AM(UTC)
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Very interesting stuff guys concerning the Chava fessing up, as opposed to Adam hinting at Yah giving him the woman, consequently leading to his sin.

Concerning Yahushua having a father, of course to a standard christian, it would seem so easy to just say "Yeah, He had a Father - God the Father." We know that this type of thinking is based on the faulty doctrine of the trinity. Now when thoroughly analyzing who Yahushua really was (as James said, a part of Yahuweh set apart from the whole), it is more than a stretch to say that He had a father - even the bodily Yahushua (for lack of a better phrase). Simply because God created Himself through a woman does not grant the ready conclusion that Yahushua had a father in a biological nor a spiritual sense. The only begotten Son of 3:16 easily misleads along with the usage of the word "son" in modern translations.
Offline sirgodfrey  
#11 Posted : Thursday, November 12, 2009 10:15:30 AM(UTC)
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.......

An email to my mother:

"Mother -

Here is an article that I came across today on a forum that I joined a
while ago. It has some useful information concerning some of the things
that we have discussed in the past.

Godfrey" (the article that marcus posted concerning Sunday worship and such)

The response from my mother:

"Godfrey, I at this time am in no wise concern about what you and your like-minded
associates thinks pertaining to the Holy Bible. To hear you say that you don't know
who the "father" of Jesus is, (spare patience with my non-speaking Hebrew
ingnorance) and you don't know why you don't know is out right blashemy and heresy.
What is there for you to think of trying to tell anyone anything about Jesus when
you don't know His Father. How can you not know His Father and know His Son? He's
the one that sent the One you acknowledeges. Make any sense to you? If I was in your
shoes at this very moment, I would repent on my knees to the Father but through His
Son Jesus the Christ, before I would even think of speaking to a dog about the Holy
Bible let alone a person. You and your soul are in a terrible situation with
the Lord Himself!!! What need to be on your mind and heart are repentance and
asking for forgiveness of such a statement of confusion
and possibly worse. I'm incline to think the later more than the former. You soul
is in a "terrible fix". You have no right to tell or even to think of telling
anyone about the Gospel of Jesus Christ; for you have no Gospel of Jesus; for you
have no "good news" of who His Father Is. Therefore you haveNOTHING to say on the
matter. You can't even tell yourself the Good News of Jesus, how are you going to
even try to tell someone else. When you tell yourself or read again all the Good
News of Jesus Christ and believe then we will be able to talk of the Holy Bible.
That's the only way. Don't holler to me on this matter anymore unless you have
"truthfully achieved" and "truthfully believed" that which is required of you of
the Full Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Mother"



Offline kp  
#12 Posted : Thursday, November 12, 2009 10:54:36 AM(UTC)
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In the immortal words of Cool Hand Luke... "What we have here is a failure to communicate."

kp
Offline Ben  
#13 Posted : Thursday, November 12, 2009 11:00:05 AM(UTC)
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Godfrey, please find solace in the fact that you are not alone. I will mention your situation in my prayer to Abba, may he grant you strength and wisdom. I cannot begin to imagine how the mail from you mother must make you feel...

Shalom
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#14 Posted : Thursday, November 12, 2009 11:10:24 AM(UTC)
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interesting response.

I kind of thing that's what my mum wants to say to me lol
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Offline Matthew  
#15 Posted : Thursday, November 12, 2009 11:21:38 AM(UTC)
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Godfrey, my heart goes out to you mate. Barriers in family are the hardest, they cause the most ache. I couldn't care less if someone I hardly know rejects me, but if my family members were to say that it would hurt real bad. I could never imagine breaking my relationship with my father, though he has had a few words at me since he didn't agree with something I said concerning the history of South Africa but we got over it the very next second, thankfully.

Anyway...

The doctrine of the Trinity is nasty business, it completely causes whack when people are confronted concerning their core beliefs. Not even Christians understand the Trinity, "it's a mystery," but yet they defend it with all their might, especially against a Gentile using the Hebrew Names. If they understood what we know about God (the Heavenly Father, Spiritual Mother, Child, but yet being one - Isaiah 9:6) then there wouldn't be this confusion, obviously. Just one extra reason to despise false doctrines all the more.

In response to what you said a few posts earlier: I see Yahweh as fathering Yahshua, fathering Him in a spiritual sense, even in a physical sense if you think about it. Consider Luke 2:49 "Why were you searching for me?" he asked. "Didn't you know I had to be in my Father's house?", John 2:16 To those who sold doves he said, "Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father's house into a market!", John 14:2 In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. Obviously Yahshua recognised who His Father was.

Even though Yahshua is Yahweh, He still saw Yahweh as His Father. We can easily get confused with this, but if we assume (correct me if I'm wrong) that Yahshua had no knowledge of anything as a baby and had to learn as He grew then He would've been taught by Miryam and Joseph to converse with God as the Father, and He would've seen Yahweh as such, as His Father, the same way we would. Plus as a person, Yahshua was on His own, though He did have God's Spirit with Him. He was like us in every way, but without sin. He also had to grow like any other child, though He had the advantage of being born without sin and with complete 100% dependence on the Spirit, therefore being fully open to everything the Spirit taught, hence why people marveled at His knowledge when He was only 12 years old. (I still wonder when He came to the knowledge that He was the Lamd?!) If He didn't need to grow and knew everything then He could've just started His ministry from birth, talking seriously deep stuff the moment His slippery head saw the sheep overlooking the whole scenario.

I don't know how this fits in with the whole topic but anyway..
Offline Matthew  
#16 Posted : Thursday, November 12, 2009 11:42:05 AM(UTC)
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EDIT:

I would see Joseph more on the sideline, like a step-father, than trying to take the role of biological father. He probably would've cared for Yahshua like a step-father would. He's not like the real father but can provide support when needed, even teaching him the boy his trade and beliefs, though he would still respect the right of the real biological Father.
Offline In His Name  
#17 Posted : Thursday, November 12, 2009 3:31:28 PM(UTC)
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sirgodfrey wrote:
.......

An email to my mother:

"Mother -

Here is an article that I came across today on a forum that I joined a
while ago. It has some useful information concerning some of the things
that we have discussed in the past.

Godfrey" (the article that marcus posted concerning Sunday worship and such)

The response from my mother:

"Godfrey, I at this time am in no wise concern about what you and your like-minded
associates thinks pertaining to the Holy Bible. To hear you say that you don't know
who the "father" of Jesus is, (spare patience with my non-speaking Hebrew
ingnorance) and you don't know why you don't know is out right blashemy and heresy.
What is there for you to think of trying to tell anyone anything about Jesus when
you don't know His Father. How can you not know His Father and know His Son? He's
the one that sent the One you acknowledeges. Make any sense to you? If I was in your
shoes at this very moment, I would repent on my knees to the Father but through His
Son Jesus the Christ, before I would even think of speaking to a dog about the Holy
Bible let alone a person. You and your soul are in a terrible situation with
the Lord Himself!!! What need to be on your mind and heart are repentance and
asking for forgiveness of such a statement of confusion
and possibly worse. I'm incline to think the later more than the former. You soul
is in a "terrible fix". You have no right to tell or even to think of telling
anyone about the Gospel of Jesus Christ; for you have no Gospel of Jesus; for you
have no "good news" of who His Father Is. Therefore you haveNOTHING to say on the
matter. You can't even tell yourself the Good News of Jesus, how are you going to
even try to tell someone else. When you tell yourself or read again all the Good
News of Jesus Christ and believe then we will be able to talk of the Holy Bible.
That's the only way. Don't holler to me on this matter anymore unless you have
"truthfully achieved" and "truthfully believed" that which is required of you of
the Full Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Mother"


SGF, I gotta tell you, this made me smile big time. Your Mother loves you more than enough to tell you straight up what she thinks. If she were close enough I could see her taking a few swats with a rolled up newspaper. And what she thinks is that you are confused by all of this contrary stuff you keep talking about. The Father part should be easy enough to get past, as KP said it is a failure to communicate. You aren't saying anything against her belief, only that it is difficult to comprehend the boundaries of that relationship. Assure her that you believe in the Son and the Father. You do, you just aren't sure how it all works (their being the same person is just a bit confusing). And you can assure her that you hold Scripture in the highest of regard, that is why you are trying to learn so much about it and why you want to share what you learn with her. If you haven't already, show her how Yahweh's name has been changed. Hopefully she has a Bible that makes the tetragammon mea culpa in the forward. My childhood Bible says straight up that (paraphrasing) 'we put Lord in place of YHWH cause thats what everyone else did' Then you can tell her that is not the only way God's word was changed and you want her to know the truth.

I don't know what will work for her and you, but it sounds to me like she loves Yahweh and you and is trying hard to protect you from harm.

There is one god, whose name is Yahweh. He took form on this earth to bring salvation to all who will trust in him. He accepted the punishment and responsibility for the sins we committed, for He was sinless. He died, was buried and rose conquering death, promising to also raise those who trusted in him. In my mind that is what is important for us as individuals, everything else is secondary.

As a family the secondary issues are very important. Following Yahweh's narrow path is what collectively keeps us healthy and safe, and keeps evil away.

Anyway, I love your mother, you gotta make up.
“Because he clings to Me, is joined to Me, loves and delights in Me, desires Me, therefore I will deliver him, carry him safely away, cause him to escape from harm making him inaccessible and strong, and delivering him safely to heaven, because he has known, observed, cared for, recognized, instructed and advised others to use, designated, acknowledged, discerned, answered in, My name, authority, character, report, mark, and nature." Psalm 91:14
Offline StuDent  
#18 Posted : Thursday, November 12, 2009 4:28:19 PM(UTC)
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Thank you all for sharing. I know how special the relationship with a loving mother can be. You are in my prayers as well. May YHWH's will be done in your life.
"As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he"
Offline sirgodfrey  
#19 Posted : Thursday, November 12, 2009 4:40:16 PM(UTC)
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Joined: 10/2/2008(UTC)
Posts: 512
Location: North Carolina

Thank you Ben for your offering of incense to Yah on my behalf. And maybe KP is right. I don't know. We have had many conversationg and such concerning God and she knows how I feel about Torah, as well as other issues. For any who have felt that I might be terribly hurt by her email, that is far away from the truth. I actually started smiling very hard. I am certainly not happy that she feels like that, but I am happy knowing that anyone, mother or whomever, that is willing to tell me such because of the studying and diligent seeking I have done is very welcome to do so. I certainly do not reject the "Son"-- as someone mentioned, it's the boundaries of the relationship to "Father" that is --- eh, you know. And, In His Name, you are right. My mother loves me tremendously, but this is one thing that will never change. I will not forsake the knowledge that I have come to concerning God. I certainly do not claim to know everything, or anything close, but I certainly have shaken off the dirt, grime and utter deception of Christianity. I have come to despise it. I do try and share whatever it is that I share with love and patience and kindness. That is the most that I can do along with prayer.

I never said that I saw Yahushua as a "Son" (responding to a previous post above). Yes, I acknowledge Him as the Son - as in the human manifestation of YHWH - but not as God saying "This is the son whom I have given birth to."
Offline James  
#20 Posted : Friday, November 13, 2009 3:20:46 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: SGF' Go to Quoted Post
Don't holler to me on this matter anymore unless you have
"truthfully achieved" and "truthfully believed" that which is required of you of
the Full Gospel of Jesus Christ.

I have to say I love this line, it basically says don't talk to me about this until you agree with me.

Godfrey, i would say you took this letter exactly as you should. I feel truly sorry for your mother, who is so far wrapped in the depiction of religion, that rather than addressing your points she outright dismisses you. You should point out to her that 1) the article was not written by you, and 2) that attacking the messenger is a very poor debate tactic, and one that shows that the one using it is ignorant.

As for Yahushua referring to Yahuweh as his Father, he told us to refer to Yahuweh as our Father, and part of Yashushua's mission, was to serve as an example to us of how we should relate to Yahuweh. But to say that Yahuweh is Yahushua's Father in anything other than a metaphorical way, is to imply that Yahushua is a second generation deity.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline James  
#21 Posted : Friday, November 13, 2009 3:23:05 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: SGF' Go to Quoted Post
Gospel of Jesus Christ.

The Sun God's Spell of The Horned Ones Drugging and Whitewashing.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline sirgodfrey  
#22 Posted : Friday, November 13, 2009 4:59:04 AM(UTC)
sirgodfrey
Joined: 10/2/2008(UTC)
Posts: 512
Location: North Carolina

James wrote:
But to say that Yahuweh is Yahushua's Father in anything other than a metaphorical way, is to imply that Yahushua is a second generation deity.


James, I honestly do not know if I could have said this better myself. Such a statement may have communicated better to my mother what I was trying to communicate the other night when we were having a conversation/debate/whatever concerning the "Father" and "Son."

What a freakin great statement. Thanks.
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#23 Posted : Friday, November 13, 2009 6:51:29 AM(UTC)
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Well thats the whole problem - Yah is One. Everything He does is metaphorical, trying to help us grasp the un-graspable - and this is only the smallest glimps of a mission to bring us back, the amount more we are going to find out when our minds can handle it, well, blows my mind.

Everything is a "parable" lol
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Offline kp  
#24 Posted : Friday, November 13, 2009 8:34:07 AM(UTC)
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Y'know, Sirgodfrey, I dealt with a lot of these issues in the second chapter of the book I'm working on, The Torah Code. But it's not up on the web yet, and I (being a technodunce) don't know how to attach the file to a forum posting. But if you'd like to read it, email me at email@futuretruth.net, and I'll attach it in a return email. Maybe there something in there that will help you bridge the communication gap with your Mom, 'cause it seems to me you're both sayin' the same thing, more or less, but you're speaking different languages.

kp
Offline James  
#25 Posted : Friday, November 13, 2009 9:42:50 AM(UTC)
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sirgodfrey wrote:
James, I honestly do not know if I could have said this better myself. Such a statement may have communicated better to my mother what I was trying to communicate the other night when we were having a conversation/debate/whatever concerning the "Father" and "Son."

What a freakin great statement. Thanks.

Can't take too much credit for that, I'm only paraphrasing something that I read in either Yada's work or Ken's, can't remember which, but I liked it, and it stuck with me.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline sirgodfrey  
#26 Posted : Monday, November 16, 2009 4:22:05 PM(UTC)
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Posts: 512
Location: North Carolina

And just so people know, this is not a "I hate you son" letter. My mother and I actually are living under the same roof currently. She could not find work back where we're from, so I told her she could stay with me until she finds a job or my lease is up.
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