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Offline Matthew  
#1 Posted : Thursday, November 5, 2009 10:16:30 AM(UTC)
Matthew
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Quick question: was Chawah an instantaneous creation from Adam's rib, or was she already existing and God just used Adam's rib and joined it to Chawah?

Following taken from the Eden chapter of YY:

Quote:
“Yahweh, God (‘elohym), caused the man Adam to fall (napal) deeply asleep (tardemah), and while he slept (yasen), He grasped hold of (laqah — selected and took) one (‘echad) of his ribs (sela’ — bones and cartilage around the heart and lungs) from him and closed up (sagar) its place with flesh (basar — living soft tissues). And the rib Yahuweh, God, took (laqah) relationally (‘asher) from (min) the man Adam (‘adam), He built (banah — made and erected, constructed and established) a woman and wife (‘issah — female partner in marriage), and He came to (bow’) the man ‘Adam with her.” (Genesis 2:21-22) Just as the Set-Apart Spirit is a part of God, taken from God, and sent to us for the purpose of association and life, so it was with Chawah. And in a more plebeian sense, the rib was selected because it surrounded the heart, the seat of love, and the lungs, synonymous with the breath of life, known as the nepesh/soul.


If I was to say Yahshua was Adam and the Woman was us in this case, then I would come to the conclusion that Chawah was already existing but just not yet spiritually awakened. But then I prone to believe she was an instantaneous creation because we are basically nothing without Yahshua, we aren't even alive without Him. To paraphrase Solomon: everything is meaningless without Him.
Offline Matthew  
#2 Posted : Friday, November 6, 2009 2:40:37 AM(UTC)
Matthew
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Ok guys, this is getting deep.

The more I think about Adam's rib the more profound it gets, I was remined of the two radio broadcasts and a preview of TTC (The Torah Code) in regards to the Logos becoming flesh and God taking a part of Himself to create the universe (though can't quite remember if KP said this or not). And with Yada's defnition of the rib "(sela’ — bones and cartilage around the heart and lungs)" and "the rib was selected because it surrounded the heart, the seat of love, and the lungs, synonymous with the breath of life, known as the nepesh/soul" and his translation of Genesis 2:23 it fits the picture perfectly and as deeply profound.

Quote:
“Then the man, Adam, said, ‘This is the foundation, the way to conduct one’s life (pa’am — the pattern of behavior to be followed), the substance of life (‘esem — the very essence of being human, an essential insight into something similar and related to vastness and might of life), out of (min — from) my (‘aniy) essence (‘esem — bones and substance), life (basar) from my life (basar — flesh, body, and humanity). She shall be called (qara — summoned) woman and wife (‘ishah — female) because (kiy) out of (min — from) man and husband (‘ish) she was taken (laqah — grasped and obtained, selected and received).” (Genesis 2:23)


Yahweh really is Love and really wanted companionship. This little passage is so deep on many levels that I don't think we've touched the surface. Our life and existence came because of Yahshua (the second Adam), plus for that to happen Yahshua had to be asleep in the grave, just like Adam was asleep when God removed the rib. It also ties in with Genesis 2:4-7 where water is the essential element that allows life to flourish and for man to be in existence, and this would fit in with Yada's quote in my previous post above of the Set-Apart Spirit being taken from God and sent to us to give us life.
Offline Theophilus  
#3 Posted : Friday, November 6, 2009 6:34:16 AM(UTC)
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Matthew it looks like you have the same question as me. In YY Yada addresses Adam being taken into the enclosed and protected Garden of Joy / Eden. I recall asking about whether Chawwah was similarily a special creation or was like Adam, alive in soul and not yet of Spirit through Neshamah. I never did recieve a specific answer and wondered if any one else has either and if they recieved a reply what it was?

I can certainly agree with the spiritual truths an metaphores discussed here, but since the question was placed here in the Science and Scriptures folder rather than the "In the Beginning" folder, I'd like to persue it from a scientific question, recognizing that the answer is ultimtely secondary to the Spiritual truths aspects.

A plain reading of the text makes me think a Chawwah was indeed a special creation, however, having had my eyes open by Yada's writing on the six Yown of Genesis 1, makes me not want rely on that method if another posssiblity is supportable. I wrote in another post folder that David Rohl. who Yada supports regarding chrnonoly but not for Spiritual insights regards Chawwah (Rohl uses Eve), as a woman already living outside of the Garden made to be like Adam. Rohl at least in the Eden to Exile book I read was not the one he wrote which focuses on Genesis / Eden. I think that one was called Legend and I've yet to see in detail the case he makes for Chawwah, but suspect he agrees at least in part on Adam's entry into Eden.

Any other thoughts out there on this question?
Offline kp  
#4 Posted : Friday, November 6, 2009 7:13:02 AM(UTC)
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Funny. Just this morning I was messing with Genesis 2:23 for my discussion of "Life" in The Torah Code. My admittedly paraphrased (but still more accurate than the KJV) take on what Adam said about Chavvah, done entirely independently of Yada's translation: “This one is the next step in my life: her substance and essence are like mine, and her body is good news to me. She shall be chosen as my wife; surely I will receive her and be a husband to her.”

kp
Offline Theophilus  
#5 Posted : Friday, November 6, 2009 7:28:02 AM(UTC)
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kp wrote:
Funny. Just this morning I was messing with Genesis 2:23 for my discussion of "Life" in The Torah Code. My admittedly paraphrased (but still more accurate than the KJV) take on what Adam said about Chavvah, done entirely independently of Yada's translation: “This one is the next step in my life: her substance and essence are like mine, and her body is good news to me. She shall be chosen as my wife; surely I will receive her and be a husband to her.”

kp


Thanks for that Ken. I can see Adam viewing his bride to be is such joyous expressions.

Do you have any thoughts as to whether she physically pre-existed outside the sheltered garden and was made like Adam once inside or was a special / miraculous creation? In other words, was she once physically Adam's removed rib one nap later transformed into a fully developed, neshama equipped woman?

While I'd think it makes little difference Spiritually speaking, the metaphor seems more plausible to me, however a plain reading of the text seems to say otherwise.

-Theophilus
Offline kp  
#6 Posted : Friday, November 6, 2009 7:44:50 AM(UTC)
kp
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All I can say is that the plain reading of the text seems to be saying that this was a literal creative act, a one-time occurance that happened just like the story says. I can't swear that God wasn't speaking in figurative language, but I've go no reason to disbelieve the account as literally presented. Functionally, it would mean that Chavvah had the same DNA as Adam, excuse the Y chromosome. And that DNA would be pristine, perfect, and undegraded. It sounds like what my wife has said she wanted for years: a full-body transplant. :-)

kp
Offline Theophilus  
#7 Posted : Friday, November 6, 2009 7:49:32 AM(UTC)
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kp wrote:
Funny. Just this morning I was messing with Genesis 2:23 for my discussion of "Life" in The Torah Code. My admittedly paraphrased (but still more accurate than the KJV) take on what Adam said about Chavvah, done entirely independently of Yada's translation: “This one is the next step in my life: her substance and essence are like mine, and her body is good news to me. She shall be chosen as my wife; surely I will receive her and be a husband to her.”

kp


Thanks for that translation Ken. I can certainly see Adam viewing his new bride to be is such joyous expressions.

Do you have any thoughts as to whether she physically pre-existed outside the sheltered garden and was made like Adam once inside or was a special / miraculous creation? In other words, was she once physically Adam's removed rib one nap later transformed into a fully developed, neshama equipped woman?

While I'd think it makes little difference Spiritually speaking, the metaphor seems more plausible to me, however a plain reading of the text seems to say otherwise.

-Theophilus
Offline Matthew  
#8 Posted : Friday, November 6, 2009 1:35:54 PM(UTC)
Matthew
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kp wrote:
Funny. Just this morning I was messing with Genesis 2:23 for my discussion of "Life" in The Torah Code. My admittedly paraphrased (but still more accurate than the KJV) take on what Adam said about Chavvah, done entirely independently of Yada's translation: “This one is the next step in my life: her substance and essence are like mine, and her body is good news to me. She shall be chosen as my wife; surely I will receive her and be a husband to her.”


Your verse seems to suggest she was already existing by the use of the word "chosen" but I'm also leaning towards her being literally fashioned before Adam's eyes, we could even say in a twinkling of an eye because his eyes were closed. And perhaps with Adam asleep it could also reference that the time it took, some 14 billion years, for God to wait for us to come around since the Big Bang actually took a twinkling of an eye for Him since He is not bound by our earthly time.

kp wrote:
All I can say is that the plain reading of the text seems to be saying that this was a literal creative act, a one-time occurance that happened just like the story says. I can't swear that God wasn't speaking in figurative language, but I've go no reason to disbelieve the account as literally presented. Functionally, it would mean that Chavvah had the same DNA as Adam, excuse the Y chromosome. And that DNA would be pristine, perfect, and undegraded. It sounds like what my wife has said she wanted for years: a full-body transplant. :-)


And what about DNA? I know the carnal/sinful nature is most likely referring to pleasing our physical bodies for self-gratification but is the carnal nature also somehow connected to our mental desires, like the need to feel rich causing one to steal? How is the sinful nature passed on, through DNA or is it simply mean being born without an initial spiritual connection to God, without His Spirit indwelling the person, meaning that by default one is purely mortal in flesh and in spirit and ceasing to exist if not latching on to the Set-Apart Spirit?

Did the creative act of the neshamah get passed through Adam's DNA into Chawah? Are our children born with a neshamah because of our DNA connection to our biological parents or does God provide neshamah each time a child is conceived? What about the nephesh, is it passed on or is it given individually?

It seems like I got too many questions and it's late so my mind is battling to tie it all together, arghh.
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