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Offline Matthew  
#1 Posted : Thursday, August 27, 2009 4:11:29 AM(UTC)
Matthew
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What's your understanding of these verses that indicate those who walked with Yahshua will not taste death but will see His kingdom come first? I got presented these passages from an ex-Christian where they think the kingdom in this passage is talking about the millennial reign:

Mark 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

Luke 9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

And then this passage is concerning Yahshua before the Sanhedrin where he seems to specifically say these Sanhedrin will see Yahshua sitting at the right hand of God upon His return:

Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Offline kp  
#2 Posted : Thursday, August 27, 2009 5:01:46 AM(UTC)
kp
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

Tell your friend he's gotta check the context, Matt. In each of these accounts the very next verse explains what he meant: Yahshua took Peter, James, and John with Him up on a mountain and was "transfigured" before their eyes into a new form of deity that revealed His glory. Yes, its the same form of the Messiah that will reign during the Millennial Kingdom, but the earthly reign wouldn't begin until the ultimate Feast of Tabernacles---in 2033, unless I miss my guess. Yahshua was very precise in His prophecy: these three disciples "would not taste death" until they had seen the Kingdom's revelation in power: it all happened only six days after the prophecy was given.

The Mark 14:62 passage, I believe, spells bad news for the chief priests (but to understand why, you have to understand the Three Doors). He's declaring to these guys that they wouldn't suffer mere destruction or dissipation when they died. No, they had invited Satan's spirit to indwell their neshamahs---He'd called them a "brood of vipers," you'll remember---and therefore, they would be quite conscious of Yahshua's assent to the Throne at the beginning of the Millennial Kingdom, and they'd therefore be in torment, knowing that they would be separated from Him forever.

kp
Offline Matthew  
#3 Posted : Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:48:59 AM(UTC)
Matthew
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Thanks kp!

But I must confess, I didn't read in context as I was in a rush so I threw it out to you guys to solve for me, ;)

But as I walked out the door while thinking upon these verses I remembered John 17:12 which says "While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled." I came across Psalm 41:9 which discusses the betrayal by Judas but which passage indicates that Yahshua will protect His followers while He was with them? Even though the earlier part of Psalm 41 speaks about Yahweh delivering the weak during times of trouble because they trust in Him, I'm not sure if John 17:12 specifically refers to that part of Psalm 41.

And if I'm not mistake the Sanhedrin would've stoned Peter (if he had confessed about knowing Yahshua rather than denying Him) and the Disciples to death at the same time, or maybe a little later, based upon Deuteronomy 13 which says Jews must not entice other Jews to follow after other gods. Maybe they would've put them to death based upon following a "false" prophet, but I'm not sure, but I do know they were definitely in a time of trouble and most likely would've been staked as well if they weren't scattered like sheep.

We know the Pharisees tried to have Yahshua lynched by way of Leviticus 24:16, "anyone who blasphemes the name of Yahweh must be put to death," just a pity they weren't paying attention to the Torah where it says "if a man schemes and kills another man deliberately, take him away from my altar and put him to death" (Exodus 21:14).

Also, after His resurrection the Disciples once again saw the "kingdom of God" when they saw Yahshua in a spiritual body, plus they saw Him go up to Heaven. Am I right in saying that the "kingdom of God" relates, firstly, to being a believer in the Messiah, for example Romans 14:17, 1 Corinthians 4:20, which speak of the believer experiencing righteousness, peace and joy in the Set-apart Spirit, and, secondly, that of living in Yahweh's presence after being resurrected in a spiritual body, for example 1 Corinthians 15:50? If this is the case, which I think it is, then that would make Mark 9:1, Luke 9:27, Matthew 16:28 all referring to the Discples seeing Yahshua spiritually transfigured.

What are people's takes on 1 Corinthians 15:24-25? "Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet" To me this passage indicates that the "kingdom of God" already begun with Yahshua, therefore it doesn't only relate to the Millennial Reign, which the person who initially emailed me suggested.
Offline Matthew  
#4 Posted : Thursday, August 27, 2009 12:54:59 PM(UTC)
Matthew
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kp wrote:
The Mark 14:62 passage, I believe, spells bad news for the chief priests (but to understand why, you have to understand the Three Doors). He's declaring to these guys that they wouldn't suffer mere destruction or dissipation when they died. No, they had invited Satan's spirit to indwell their neshamahs---He'd called them a "brood of vipers," you'll remember---and therefore, they would be quite conscious of Yahshua's assent to the Throne at the beginning of the Millennial Kingdom, and they'd therefore be in torment, knowing that they would be separated from Him forever.


Mark 14:62 "And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven."

I check the Greek word for "coming" (erchomai) means to "to come, to come from one place to another, to appear, make one's appearance, come before the public, to come into being, arise, come forth, show itself, find place or influence, be established, become known, to go, to follow one," therefore Mark 14:62 in the English version could possibly be better translated as, well maybe not better translated since Yahshus will be returning in the clouds but maybe expanded to saying something like "... and coming in and being established in the clouds of heaven." Hmmm, calling Swalchy?

Also, *bump*, since my previous post did not register.
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