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Offline sirgodfrey  
#1 Posted : Thursday, July 2, 2009 5:45:03 AM(UTC)
Joined: 10/2/2008(UTC)
Posts: 512
Location: North Carolina

man thank you so much for sharing this. I really appreciate it :) Shalom brother.
Offline kp  
#2 Posted : Thursday, July 2, 2009 6:07:30 AM(UTC)
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

Not to sound like a pedantic jerk, Swalchy, but it's uncial, not unical. Chalk it up to the anal graphic designer in my past. Uncial is a style of caligraphy or penmanship, used in both Greek and Latin manuscripts, that had rounded or curved letterforms and was basically all "upper case" or capital letters. I think they used it from maybe the third century onward---throughout the middle ages.

Yes, it's fascinating that the "nomina sacra" were retained in uncial manuscripts, for the vast majority of them were produced in post-Constantine times.

Offline Mike  
#3 Posted : Thursday, July 2, 2009 12:46:38 PM(UTC)
Joined: 10/2/2007(UTC)
Posts: 531
Location: Texas

Thanks: 6 times
Was thanked: 20 time(s) in 12 post(s)

Pardon my ignorance but where is/are the Nomina Sacra or placeholders in the Greek?

It’s all Greek to me. I would assume that there is a placeholder in the last line for Jesus/ Yahushua. What are the letters? And they don't show a line over the letters.

[Ζεβεδ]αιου και Σαλωμη κ[α]ι αι γυναικες Zebed]ee and Salome and the wives
[των συ]νακολουθησανων α[υτ]ω υ απο της [of those who] had followed him from
[Γαλιλαι]ας ορωσαι τον στ[αυρωθεντ]α. υυυ ην δε [Galile]e to see the crucified. And
[η ημερ]α Παρασκευη. υ Σαββατον επεφω- [the da]y was Preparation: the Sabbath was daw-
[σκεν. ο]ψιας δε γενομενης επι τ[η Π]αρ[α]σ- [ning]. And when it was evening, on the Prep-
[κευη], υ ο εστιν Προσαββατον, προσ- [aration], that is, the day before the Sabbath,
[ηλθην] ανθρωπος βουλευτη[ς υ]παρ- [there came] up a man, [be]ing a member of the council,
[χων α]πο Ερινμαθαια[ς] π[ο]λεως της from Arimathea, a c[i]ty of
[Ιουδαι]ας, ονομα Ιω[σεφ], α[γ]αθος δι- [Jude]a, by name Jo[seph], g[o]od and ri-
[καιος], ων μαθητης τ[ο]υ Ιη(σου), κε- υυυυ [ghteous], being a disciple of Jesus, but

Also where do you get the pre-4th century Greek texts, papyrii? Are there photos of these available on the internet?

Offline kp  
#4 Posted : Friday, July 3, 2009 11:05:02 AM(UTC)
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

Okay, I've got an open question for Swalchy (or anybody else who might have some knowledge in this area). I was working in I John 4:7-21, where John talks about love. And throughout, he uses "God," that is, the Nominum Sacrum placeholder for "Theos." It occurred to me to look up and see what the scribes did with "Yahweh" in the Septuagint, and sure enough, those buggers replaced God's name with Kurios---"Lord."

Now, I have the impression that the sons of Zebedee were not the simple fishermen they seem to be, but were actually savvy businessmen, with commercial ties and contacts in Jerusalem, including among the ranking priesthood (which would explain their (or at least John's) access to inside information about Yahshua's trial. That would pretty much guarantee that John spoke Greek rather fluently. Could it be that his word choices were "colored" by the Septuagint? Which language do you think he would have been more likely to have the greatest familiarity? Just curious.

Offline kp  
#5 Posted : Friday, July 3, 2009 2:58:32 PM(UTC)
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

Dang. You can't trust anybody anymore. I wasn't looking at a manuscript at all, but an online source for the Septuagint's Deuteronomy 6:4... http://bibledatabase.net...ml/septuagint/05_006.htm . My Greek ain't great, but there's Kurios, right where YHWH ought to be. Thanks for disillusioning me, Swalchy :-)

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