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Offline Robert9876  
#1 Posted : Sunday, June 21, 2009 3:02:35 PM(UTC)
Robert9876
Joined: 6/9/2009(UTC)
Posts: 106
Location: Pflugerville, Texas

Did they? I have heard from numerous sources that they in fact did. However, I wasn't really presented with facts or evidence aside from showing what commandments were in the KJV and in the CCC(and seeing how the KJV is not very trustable...). As I was searching the web, I cam across the following website...
http://www.theotokos.co.za/adventism/bobs10c.html
...which claims that the "Catholic" commandments were found in the Septuagint exactly the same as they are today in the CCC.

I must admit that it seems pretty fishy that the commandment in question is about graven images and false idols, something I am under the impression that the Catholics do in fact have. But, I will delay judgement until I research a bit more and maybe get some definitive answers...

I also think it is strange that the Septugint and the Latin Vulgate (as the above website says) agree with each other on this, as the Latin Vulgate was a scam, and the Septuagint is the earliest manuscript we have (right???).

I would love some feedback on this. Thanks.
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Offline kp  
#2 Posted : Sunday, June 21, 2009 5:24:04 PM(UTC)
kp
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

The Douay-Rhiems Bible, I believe, is considered the authoritative Roman Catholic version. In it, the Exodus version of the ten commandments reads thus:

Quote:
1 And the Lord spoke all these words: 2 I am the Lord thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3 Thou shalt not have strange gods before me. 4 Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath, nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth. 5 Thou shalt not adore them, nor serve them: I am the Lord thy God, mighty, jealous, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me: 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands to them that love me, and keep my commandments. 7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain: for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that shall take the name of the Lord his God in vain. 8 Remember that thou keep holy the sabbath day. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and shalt do all thy works. 10 But on the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: thou shalt do no work on it, thou nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy beast, nor the stranger that is within thy gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and the sea, and all things that are in them, and rested on the seventh day: therefore the Lord blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it. 12 Honour thy father and thy mother, that thou mayest be longlived upon the land which the Lord thy God will give thee. 13 Thou shalt not kill. 14 Thou shalt not commit adultery. 15 Thou shalt not steal. 16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. 17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house: neither shalt thou desire his wife, nor his servant, nor his handmaid, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is his.


As you can see, it doesn't leave anything out, but is as badly translated as the KJV. In particular, I really don't know how the Catholics (or protestants, for that matter), deal with the Sabbath day thing. I half expected to see the "graven images" prohibition buried, but they weasel out of it with a textual note (which I have deleted, since it's not part of the text).

The New Jerusalem Bible translates it like this:

Quote:
1 Then God spoke all these words. He said, 2 'I am Yahweh your God who brought you out of Egypt, where you lived as slaves. 3 'You shall have no other gods to rival me. 4 'You shall not make yourself a carved image or any likeness of anything in heaven above or on earth beneath or in the waters under the earth. 5 'You shall not bow down to them or serve them. For I, Yahweh your God, am a jealous God and I punish a parent's fault in the children, the grandchildren, and the great-grandchildren among those who hate me; 6 but I act with faithful love towards thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments. 7 'You shall not misuse the name of Yahweh your God, for Yahweh will not leave unpunished anyone who misuses his name. 8 'Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy. 9 For six days you shall labour and do all your work,
10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath for Yahweh your God. You shall do no work that day, neither you nor your son nor your daughter nor your servants, men or women, nor your animals nor the alien living with you. 11 For in six days Yahweh made the heavens, earth and sea and all that these contain, but on the seventh day he rested; that is why Yahweh has blessed the Sabbath day and made it sacred. 12 'Honour your father and your mother so that you may live long in the land that Yahweh your God is giving you. 13 'You shall not kill. 14 'You shall not commit adultery. 15 'You shall not steal. 16 'You shall not give false evidence against your neighbour. 17 'You shall not set your heart on your neighbour's house. You shall not set your heart on your neighbour's spouse, or servant, man or woman, or ox, or donkey, or any of your neighbour's possessions.'


The New American Bible, another Catholic leaning edition, translates it like this:

Quote:
1 Then God delivered all these commandments: 2 "I, the LORD, am your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. 3 You shall not have other gods besides me. 4 You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth; 5 you shall not bow down before them or worship them. For I, the LORD, your God, am a jealous God, inflicting punishment for their fathers' wickedness on the children of those who hate me, down to the third and fourth generation; 6 but bestowing mercy down to the thousandth generation, on the children of those who love me and keep my commandments. 7 You shall not take the name of the LORD, your God, in vain. For the LORD will not leave unpunished him who takes his name in vain. 8 "Remember to keep holy the sabbath day. 9 Six days you may labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD, your God. No work may be done then either by you, or your son or daughter, or your male or female slave, or your beast, or by the alien who lives with you. 11 In six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them; but on the seventh day he rested. That is why the LORD has blessed the sabbath day and made it holy. 12 "Honor your father and your mother, that you may have a long life in the land which the LORD, your God, is giving you. 13 "You shall not kill. 14 "You shall not commit adultery. 15 "You shall not steal. 16 "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. 17 "You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male or female slave, nor his ox or ass, nor anything else that belongs to him."


kp
Offline bitnet  
#3 Posted : Sunday, June 21, 2009 11:59:38 PM(UTC)
bitnet
Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,120

Shalom,

Perhaps Robert9876 is referring to the differences in how the RC church enumerates their 10 Commandments compared to the rest of the churches. (I have a PDF that describes the differences but I do not know how to append this in the post.) In short, the 10 Commandments are divided differently by (a) Jews, (b) Anglicans/Reformed/Other Christians, (c) Orthodox and (d) Catholics/Lutheran.

The first three groups more or less agree on the numbering of the commandments except for the last group of Catholics/Lutherans who bunched up the first two commandments (1) "I am the Lord your God, You shall have no other gods before me," (2) "You shall not make for yourself an idol" into their First Commandment and split the last one into two (9) "You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, (10) "You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor."

This is a sneaky way to try to keep their idols while ignoring the fact that the last Commandment had to do with covetousness, whether for house, cart, ox, or wife or anything else.

If anyone wants to read the pdf please PM me and I'll give it to Robski or Swalchy to post.
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
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