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Offline TRUTH B-TOLD  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, April 15, 2009 12:56:08 PM(UTC)
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Shalom friends,

With alot of talk on the forum being about older text written before the jewish and christian scriptures, I thought I would see what anyone knows about this 11,000 years old temple. In Turkey they are excavating a temple they call the Gobekli tepe and put it around 11,000 years old. With God's 6+1=7 plan, putting the man Adam back around 7,000 years ago, whom would you think built this temple? If Yahuweh didn't converse with man until Adam and man hadn't yet been tempted by satan, do you think the builders of this temple knew Yah? If not do you think they were deceived by satan, whom had not tempted Adam at that time? Or would you be more inclined to think that this temple is not as old as they think it is?

If anyone would like to look into this temple you can google "Gobekli tepe", and you can actually get a look at it, I would've gave a link, but I couldn't figure that out, sorry.
Offline Matthew  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, April 15, 2009 1:29:13 PM(UTC)
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Interesting. I'm currently reading Gerald Schroeder's Genesis and the Big Bang and he was going on about that humans before Adam were quite intelligent, about 100,000 years ago they had already starting bury their dead in the foetal position. He mentioned a few other things they acheived before Adam but I can't quite remember and I'm not at home now, sorry.

Adam's sin was just shy of 6000 years ago, so this event has been dated to 5000 years before Adam's sin.
Offline Theophilus  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, April 15, 2009 2:31:17 PM(UTC)
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Truth-B-Told, I 'll have to look up the temple you refer to, as I've not heard of it before. I wouldn't be surprised if pre-Adamic humans could construct structures, but marvel that they could endure 11,000 years. It does also make me wonder when the Adversary rebelled and fell to Earth. Would he and his fellow rebels have desired worship from non-neshama equipped humanoids?

Matthew, how is the Schroeder book? I've read "Science of God" but don't recall the one that you mentioned.
Offline Matthew  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, April 15, 2009 3:07:42 PM(UTC)
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Theophilus wrote:
Matthew, how is the Schroeder book? I've read "Science of God" but don't recall the one that you mentioned.


I just finished "The Science of God" (SOG) a few days ago, and now feel as if I'm reading it all over again by reading "Genesis and the Big Bang" (GBB). GBB was published in 1990, and my version being printed in 1992. SOG seems to be much newer, can't remember the dates. But I saw on Amazon a few days ago that a new updated version of SOG will be printed in June this year. But he didn't mention the burying of the dead in SOG so there are some differences.
Offline TRUTH B-TOLD  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, April 15, 2009 3:18:58 PM(UTC)
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Thanks guys,

Matthew I would be most thankful for any tidbits you could give me of what you've read in Schroeder's books in regards to pre-Adamic humans. Theo in reading about that temple, they said that the people backfilled and purposely buried the temple. This decision to rid their selves of this temple and maybe even their god/ gods was actually the very thing that preserved the temple.








Offline In His Name  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, April 15, 2009 4:28:11 PM(UTC)
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Looks like satan's work to me. Check out the T structures.
“Because he clings to Me, is joined to Me, loves and delights in Me, desires Me, therefore I will deliver him, carry him safely away, cause him to escape from harm making him inaccessible and strong, and delivering him safely to heaven, because he has known, observed, cared for, recognized, instructed and advised others to use, designated, acknowledged, discerned, answered in, My name, authority, character, report, mark, and nature." Psalm 91:14
Offline James  
#7 Posted : Thursday, April 16, 2009 5:11:08 AM(UTC)
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I think men do have a tendency toward a god. Even before Adam I would bet that these primitive men, knew from looking at the world that it wasn't an accident, and felt there had to be something greater, and so built such a temple as a place to worship him.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline Matthew  
#8 Posted : Thursday, April 16, 2009 6:27:57 AM(UTC)
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TRUTH B-TOLD wrote:
Matthew I would be most thankful for any tidbits you could give me of what you've read in Schroeder's books in regards to pre-Adamic humans.


A big OOPS! I was paging through GBB this morning and I couldn't find the section I had read, so I picked up my copy of SOG and I discovered what I was searching for, I was looking through the wrong book. 150,000 years ago Neanderthals's began to appear, they even had tools "formed by deliverate chipping, a possible indication of ability to plan and execute plans" (pg. 129). About a 100,000 years ago "these creatures had started to bury their dead... on its side in the fetal position" (pg. 129). 40,000 years later, about 60,000 years ago, Neantherdal disappeared and was relaced by Cro-Magnon, though they had co-existed for tens of thousands of years. "With the appearance of Cro-Magnon, we find a marked increase in motor skills" (pg. 130). About 10,000 years ago "settlements of Cro-Magnon spread from France to Ukraine and across northen Canada" (pg. 130).

"About ten thousand years ago the beginning of farming occurred in what is today central Israel and northern Syria. A thousand years passed and we find reeds being woven into baskets. By eight thousand years ago pottery had been developed. All this, and yet, according to the dates of the Bible, no Adam. The Bible talks about pottery, how it is used, its purity, and contamination (cf. Lev. 11:33). But the Bible doesn't say a word about who invented pottery. It doesn't mention its invention because (I believe) that even predated Adam, and the Bible was well aware of this" (pg. 130). It then goes on to mention metalwork in which Tuval-Cain (Genesis 4:22) was the father of metalwork, about 5,300 year ago. Schroeder doesn't say in this passage if archaeological records prove this but I assume it does.
Offline TRUTH B-TOLD  
#9 Posted : Thursday, April 16, 2009 6:55:10 AM(UTC)
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Shalom Matthew,

Thanks for getting back with me on what Schroeder's books say in regards to pre-Adamic humans.

In His Name, the T-structures are supports for a roof, I'm not sure we can attribute that to satan. But if you got to look at the animal carvings on the stone walls, ones might conclude worship of something or someone other than Yahuweh. Although the vulger is promently featured and thats also picture in our scriptures, where ever the carcuses lay.
Offline dodi  
#10 Posted : Thursday, April 16, 2009 1:45:15 PM(UTC)
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So, do you guys think that there were men before Adam?
Offline Matthew  
#11 Posted : Friday, April 17, 2009 3:07:05 AM(UTC)
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dodi wrote:
So, do you guys think that there were men before Adam?


Dodi, I see no one has been answered your question, so I'll give it a go. In Yada Yahweh Yada explains very well the difference between humans pre-Adam and humans post-Adam. What made Adam different was the Breathe of Life, in Hebrew the word is neshamah. Yada likes to refer to it as our conscience, the ability to connect with God and be spiritual, the ability to reason and make decisions, to choose between right and wrong. All evidence indicates that mankind before Adam didn't have this advanced ability, this ability would definitely lead to advanced skills, especially that of learning to write and making tools from bronze. I'm not sure about communication, but I assume by using basic logic that advanced communication commenced with Adam. God got him to name the animals (Genesis 2:19-20), which means that Adam has no names for animals prior to walking with God, and therefore we can confidently assume he didn't communicate using a language and that humans pre-Adam didn't communicate using a language, them being similar to animals and the sounds they make, such as danger warnings, though probably somewhat more advanced but obviously nowhere (not even a fraction) near language of today (of the last 6000 years).

Evidence, as I highlighted in my previous post, shows that pre-Adam man was becoming intelligent as he evolved, but the sudden leap in intelligence is obviously God-given. Yada goes on to say in YY that God took Adam from amongst these early men and placed him specifically in a walled-garden, Eden, and breathed into him the Breathe of Life, that which made him different to all other men.

Hope this helps so far Dodi?

But here I have a question for forum readers, in Ezekiel 1:28 and 8:2 we are told that Ezekiel sees a "figure like that of a man" when he looks up towards God's throne in heaven. Therefore I assume that God was in that form (that looked like a man) prior to the creation of the world. Do you guys think God created the universe specifically like it is in order that through the 15 billion year process there would be a species in a similar physical image, that of a man, standing upright, two legs, two arms, 5 toes per foot, 5 fingers per hand, two eyes, etc.? God would've had to of done some hectic maths to get that right, and I reckon He did. Or do you think that the figure is a prophetic indication of Yahweh's human manifestation of Yahshua, and the figure then only being temporal, or do you think that form is permanent?
Offline Theophilus  
#12 Posted : Friday, April 17, 2009 4:09:16 AM(UTC)
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Hello Dodi, I think Matthew summarized YY on pre-Adamic humans quite well. Bravo Matthew. I confess that when Yada first suggested pre-Adamic humanoids, I was unsure what to make of it as I had always understood Adam to have been a special creation, as in crafted from the dust / clay of the earth, and therefore no biological parents. Only after Yada amplified the Genesis passages on Adam does the case that Adam was placed in the enclosed garden and their received the neshamah did I understand where he was coming from. I'm still not sure I understand his position on Adam's wife. That is was she a special creation outright or was she an already exiting humanoid also given neshamah?

Quote:
But here I have a question for forum readers, in Ezekiel 1:28 and 8:2 we are told that Ezekiel sees a "figure like that of a man" when he looks up towards God's throne in heaven. Therefore I assume that God was in that form (that looked like a man) prior to the creation of the world. Do you guys think God created the universe specifically like it is in order that through the 15 billion year process there would be a species in a similar physical image, that of a man, standing upright, two legs, two arms, 5 toes per foot, 5 fingers per hand, two eyes, etc.? God would've had to of done some hectic maths to get that right, and I reckon He did. Or do you think that the figure is a prophetic indication of Yahweh's human manifestation of Yahshua, and the figure then only being temporal, or do you think that form is permanent?


Matthew, I suspect that there are good reasons for humans to have the design-plan that we have; binocular vision for depth perception, opposable thumbs for fine motor skills, etc. All of these features are for our benefit while existing in our physical environment. I think of Yah as existing as an extra-dimensional being of Spirit primarily, who uses messengers, and diminished manifestations of Himself in human-form not because "He" always maintains a physical form like ours, rather for our benefit in relating to "Him" as a person and indeed as our Heavenly Father and Spiritual Mother.
Offline TRUTH B-TOLD  
#13 Posted : Friday, April 17, 2009 4:58:46 AM(UTC)
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Shalom friends,


Quote:
What made Adam different was the Breathe of Life, in Hebrew the word is neshamah. Yada likes to refer to it as our conscience,the ability to connect with God and be spiritual, the ability to reason and make decisions, to choose between right and wrong. .All evidence indicates that mankind before Adam didn't have this advanced ability, this ability would definitely lead to advanced skills, especially that of learning to write and making tools from bronze. I'm not sure about communication, but I assume by using basic logic that advanced communication commenced with Adam


Matthew, I would think that this 11,000 year old temple would have to be considered evidence that the pre-Adam humans atleast had some concept of God, I doubt very seriously that it was Yahuweh, but atleast a thought or a concept. To build a temple would indicate that they did worship, maybe it's not a temple for worshipping, it would also take sometype of advance communication to build this large of a structure, and the ability to understand sometype of engineering to build supports for the temple. They might not of named the animals, but they sure did a good job of carving them into stone, I'm sure they had some thought as to what they were carving.
Offline In His Name  
#14 Posted : Friday, April 17, 2009 5:02:12 AM(UTC)
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Matthew wrote:

But here I have a question for forum readers, in Ezekiel 1:28 and 8:2 we are told that Ezekiel sees a "figure like that of a man" when he looks up towards God's throne in heaven. Therefore I assume that God was in that form (that looked like a man) prior to the creation of the world. Do you guys think God created the universe specifically like it is in order that through the 15 billion year process there would be a species in a similar physical image, that of a man, standing upright, two legs, two arms, 5 toes per foot, 5 fingers per hand, two eyes, etc.? God would've had to of done some hectic maths to get that right, and I reckon He did. Or do you think that the figure is a prophetic indication of Yahweh's human manifestation of Yahshua, and the figure then only being temporal, or do you think that form is permanent?


I agree, Yahshua existed in human likeness from the beginning:
Quote:
Colossians 2:8-10 “Be discerning and see to it that no one takes control of you, leading you away in submission by way of philosophy and meritless, empty, and vain deceit according to the traditions and teachings of man according to the rudimentary basic and natural elements of the world rather than according to the Messiyah...”
“...because within Him resides all that which is in accord with the content, completeness, and fulfillment the divine qualities (the nature and character of God) bodily (corporeally, in a tangible way, in human form).” “Even also in and by Him [the Messiyah Yahushua] you have been made totally complete, abounding and liberally supplied, for He exists as the head of all creation (the chief architect and builder from the beginning, the power from before the commencement of time, the authority over of all that was caused) and the one with unlimited authoritative power.” (2:10)


I think the scripture indicates the body form is permanent. Although the Gen quote below could probably be construed either way, "image" (shade) seems to convey a physical aspect. Also, if Yahshua existed in 'form' from the beginning, still exists in the present and we are given no indication of a change in the future; why would we think it is not permanent.
Quote:
GENESIS 1:26 “And God said, Let us produce the man Adam in our image (tselem – resemblance, pattern, and model; from an unused root meaning shade), after our likeness (damuwth – similitude and manner; from damah, meaning comparable, resembling, and with imagination and thinking).” .”


I also agree with you Matthew, the math is mind blowing!
“Because he clings to Me, is joined to Me, loves and delights in Me, desires Me, therefore I will deliver him, carry him safely away, cause him to escape from harm making him inaccessible and strong, and delivering him safely to heaven, because he has known, observed, cared for, recognized, instructed and advised others to use, designated, acknowledged, discerned, answered in, My name, authority, character, report, mark, and nature." Psalm 91:14
Offline In His Name  
#15 Posted : Friday, April 17, 2009 5:31:43 AM(UTC)
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TRUTH B-TOLD wrote:

In His Name, the T-structures are supports for a roof, I'm not sure we can attribute that to satan. But if you got to look at the animal carvings on the stone walls, ones might conclude worship of something or someone other than Yahuweh. Although the vulger is promently featured and thats also picture in our scriptures, where ever the carcuses lay.


Call me skeptical. Yes they are supports for the roof, but they are obviously more than that (someone else called this a temple, not me) and as roof supports they did not have to take a T formation. Also, like you suggest, these structures carry pictures of birds and animals of prey, not to mention decapitated humans, hardly what I would expect from worshippers of Yahweh.

I haven't made my mind up, I am just very skeptical of coincidence and couldn't ignore the symbolism.
“Because he clings to Me, is joined to Me, loves and delights in Me, desires Me, therefore I will deliver him, carry him safely away, cause him to escape from harm making him inaccessible and strong, and delivering him safely to heaven, because he has known, observed, cared for, recognized, instructed and advised others to use, designated, acknowledged, discerned, answered in, My name, authority, character, report, mark, and nature." Psalm 91:14
Offline dodi  
#16 Posted : Friday, April 17, 2009 2:06:41 PM(UTC)
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Thanks for the explanation. I will have to go read Yada's write up.
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