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Offline Yada  
#1 Posted : Saturday, June 30, 2007 9:17:49 PM(UTC)
Yada
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 3,537

Yada asked me to post the following from the yet unreleased Kippurym chapter, in the hopes of starting/furthering discussion on this topic.

Any thoughts from anyone on: the need for, role of, and nature of The Adversary?

Yada writes:

Moving deeper into ZakarYah 12:10, we discover that caphad, the Hebrew word translated “mourning” can also mean “to be snatched and caught up, to be removed and gathered together, even to become assigned and attached.” The word does not specify whether the collected and allied groups are saved or destroyed, and that’s important because the outcome of this day is very different for the foes and friends of God. But since Yahshua ties His return to a time in which “the whole earth mourns” in Matthew 24:30, we must not diminish the importance of wailing, anguish, and mourning in ZakarYah 12:10. On the occasion of Yah’s return to earth there will be “mourning (caphad – lamenting) as one wails (misped – cries out) for an only begotten son, grieving bitterly (marar) over Him as one suffers anguish (marar) over a firstborn.” Those who have sided with Satan will cry out in anguish, recognizing their fate. Those who have sided with God, will have lumps in their throats and tears in their eyes as they gaze upon their Creator and Savior, knowing what we have done to Him. No one will be laughing. No one will be indifferent. No one will be unaffected.

“In (ba – on and during) the day (yowm) that (ha) He (hu) is great (gadal – exalted, honored, glorified, magnified in praise) the shouts (misped – voices crying out) in Yarusalayim, will be like (ka) the wailing of Hadad Rimmown in the valley (baq’ah – depression or plain) of Megiddo (Magiddown – the basis of Armageddon).” (ZakarYah / Zechariah 12:11) Yahuweh’s prediction regarding the time and circumstance of His return is depicted identically in Matthew and Revelation.

Hadad Rimmown is the Anti-Messiyah. Hadad, as the name of a wind and storm god, was adopted as the name of several Edomite (Jordanian) kings, just as Ramses named himself after the sun god Ra. It is a derivative of ‘adad, which in turn is associated with ‘adown, “lord,” and Adonis. Hadad was also the name of Ishmael’s son, but more on that later. Keep in mind that Yahweh referred to Satan as “the ruler and prince of the air,” and thus as a “wind and storm god.” And it is in this vein that the Adversary first tormented Job.

Rimmown was both the name of a Babylonian wind and storm god and the title bequeathed to the idol Hadad. In the ancient world, wind was synonymous with spirit, and thus Hadad Rimmown was a spiritual entity—just like Satan.

As an aid to understanding, the Hebrew word for spirit, ruach, also means “wind.” Wind is something outside of us which is powerful. It can be beneficial or harmful, and it can be felt and inhaled, and yet it cannot be seen. Similarly, the Hebrew word for soul, nepesh, also means “breath.” This is air warmed and changed by life. But unlike the wind which constantly continues to blow, man’s breath is temporal, signifying mortality. All spirits, good and bad, are immortal.

Coveting Yahweh’s symbols and counterfeiting them, the Rimmown title was chosen by Satan because it means “pomegranate.” Yahweh used pomegranates to decorate the Tabernacle because of their blood red color and stain, which was symbolic of blood atonement. In Satan’s case, it was the symbol of death.

Yahweh listed the twelve tribes that would be derived from Ishmael in Genesis 25:12-16. Hadad is not only one of them, this tribe came to inhabit Palmyra, the Arabian home of the moon god cult which inspired the Ka’aba, Mecca’s shrine to the moon deities: Allah, Al Lat, Minat, and Al Uzza. It was this pantheon which gave rise to Islam. Each was represented by a sacred stone placed in the Ka’aba. Appropriately, Allah lived in the Black Stone.

Ishmael’s first born was Nabajoth. Josephus identified him with the Nabataeans, people who lived in the Arabian Desert east of the Red Sea. They spoke Arabic and occupied what is today, Mecca and Medina. After battling the Assyrians in 668 BCE and again in 703 BCE, these Hagarines (named after Ishmael’s mom) retreated into the Arabian Desert where they were safe from attack, but also isolated from the civilized world. Their only interaction with advanced cultures occurred as the result of camel caravans and trading. It was in this vacuum of knowledge and culture that Islam was born.

Moving on to the other important name in the passage, Magiddown was a Canaanite city associated with Jezreel, the Whore of Babylon, in I Kings 4:12. It is based upon gadad, meaning “to invade, penetrate, attack, and cut oneself.” There is an inference in the name suggesting the “gathering of troops or large crowds into a fortified position.” Gadad also means “to be cut down.” Gaduwd is “a marauding band of warriors out on a raid.” Other related terms are migbaoth, “turban headgear,” meged, “choice,” and migdol, “tower,” Magiddown, with the addition of har, meaning “mountain or power, forms the basis of Armageddon. And while that term is familiar to many due to its inclusion in Revelation, we’re reading Zechariah.

That said, there is an additional level of detail provided for us regarding this attack on Jerusalem and Yahweh’s return in the 16th and 17th chapters of Revelation. That account includes the fall of Satan and the Whore of Babylon. These things are all related, so while we’ll cover the Renewed Covenant material in due time. But for now, I want to continue the Zechariah narrative because of where it ends.

-Yada
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Offline Jeannie  
#2 Posted : Sunday, July 1, 2007 11:45:41 AM(UTC)
Jeannie
Joined: 6/27/2007(UTC)
Posts: 254
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Location: Florida

Most "Christians" have no idea the nature of The Adversary much less the need for or his role in this world or their life. We have been told to put on the armour of "God" and stand!! Your just begging to be blindsided!! I think YY, FH and TOM is a perfect example of how far removed we have been from the TRUTH and how blaring we have not know The Adversary. Maybe I should say me here instead of we but somewhere along the line we have not taken serious either Yahweh or The Adversary!!! I for one want to know who, what and where I'm fighting and do what it takes to win!
Jeannie
Offline Matthew  
#3 Posted : Friday, October 24, 2008 5:29:36 AM(UTC)
Matthew
Joined: 10/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,191
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Location: São Paulo, Brazil

Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 2 post(s)
Re-opening a thread:

Taken from YY - Called-Out Assemblies - Chapter 9 - Yowbel:

Quote:
"And when the Devil (diabolos - one prone to slander, the false accuser and calumniator, one who speaks maliciously and deceives; from diaballo, meaning to send out and throw away, to traduce (to fraudulently misrepresent and be exposed as blameworthy and shameful), to malign, misrepresent, slander, accuse and defame) had completed (synteleo - finished and ended) each and every (pas) temptation (peirasmos - experiment, attempt, trial, enticement, and test), he departed (aphistemi - withdrew, stood away, removed himself, and became aloof) for a measure of time (kairos - another opportune time)." (Luke 4:13)

The translators made a respectable attempt at transliterating Satan’s title but not, as we shall soon see, Yahushua’s name. It tells us whose side they were on.

It’s too bad we don’t know the meaning behind "devil." We see him as an ugly horned cartoon character decked out in red with a pointy tail and pitchfork. In reality, the Devil is a slick performer, handsome, dressed in all the finest clothes. You’ve seen him misrepresent the truth as president, prime minister, chairman, pope, priest, pastor, professor, and anchorman.

This Scriptural introduction introduces us to Satan’s tools: slander, misrepresentation, and false accusations. He doesn’t have a creative bone in his spirit. All he can do is corrupt and counterfeit. We have also been made aware of Satan’s methods: experimentation, enticement, trials, and testing. He toys with people until he finds something that works - usually sex, power, and/or money. We know that there is a limit to the Devil’s recourses and patience. He gave up and left. From this we can deduce that the Devil isn’t omnipresent. However, Satan is infinite in time and that is an advantage most of us do not have.

Yada is saying here that Satan is infinite in time but can't we say that Satan, though a spirit and eternal by nature, is bound by the rate of time of earth. Because when it reaches the Day of His Second Coming, then his time is up, because he will be bound for 1000 years. And when released at the end of the 7th millennium he is bound by the time-limit again already set by Yahuweh. He is eternal by nature but the rate of time on earth determines his time-limit. Anyone got any thoughts?
Offline BiynaYahu  
#4 Posted : Friday, October 24, 2008 3:32:31 PM(UTC)
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Joined: 4/5/2008(UTC)
Posts: 314
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Location: British Columbia, Canada

Brotherly love, and wisdom from our dad everyone,

Yada wrote:

Yada writes:

After battling the Assyrians in 668 BCE and again in 703 BCE,




I believe these dates are backwards in that 703 BCE came before 668 BCE.

Your loving brother,
Mike
Someone who does not dearly love or welcome, entertain, look fondly upon or cherish people with strong affection or highly esteem them with great favour, goodwill or benevolence, be loyal to or greatly adore them has not known or understood, perceived or realized, noticed or discerned, discovered or observed, experienced or ascertained, learned about or distinguished, comprehended, acknowledged or recognized God*, for concerning this, God* is and exists as brotherly love and affection, good will, esteem and benevolence.
Offline Matthew  
#5 Posted : Friday, October 31, 2008 9:28:35 AM(UTC)
Matthew
Joined: 10/3/2007(UTC)
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Location: São Paulo, Brazil

Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 2 post(s)
I wrote to Yada concerning my previous post and here was his response:

Yada wrote:
Matthew,

As a spiritual being, there is no chance that Satan is bound in the ordinary flow of time as we mortals are. While I'm not sure how much maneuverability he has with regard to time, the fact he is eternal in time gives him considerable advantages over us. His superiority as it relates to time, especially associated with light, should also enable him to go from one place to another almost instantly. So the question is, has Satan, like Yahweh, seen our future by having gone there, and is he capable of traveling back in time, and if so, does Yah restrict what he is able to do in such cases as He did in the case of Job? We aren't told but my guess is yes in both circumstances but with considerable restrictions. Just because God cannot kill him, doesn't mean that He cannot control him. In fact, controlling messengers is central to their purpose and nature.

Satan is our adversary, but not Yahweh's. God and the Devil aren't at war with one another. Halal ben Shachar serves a very important role as it relates to our freewill and choice with regard to God. So, in a very real sense, Satan is still being used by God to make sure choice is genuine. This is why he will be released at the end of the Mellinnial Sabbath. The Devil serves a purpose, so long as he is limited in what he can and cannot do.

Satan's time is never "up," and the 1000 years of binding is from our reference, not his. Yahweh can incarcerate him and restrict him any way He wants, God just can't kill him because spirits are infinite in time.

Yada

I also mentioned BiynaYahu's post and this was his repsonse:

Yada wrote:
Yep, the dates are reversed.
Offline Theophilus  
#6 Posted : Friday, January 9, 2009 7:36:57 PM(UTC)
Theophilus
Joined: 7/5/2007(UTC)
Posts: 544
Man

Thanks: 4 times
Quote:
Yada wrote:
Matthew,

As a spiritual being, there is no chance that Satan is bound in the ordinary flow of time as we mortals are. While I'm not sure how much maneuverability he has with regard to time, the fact he is eternal in time gives him considerable advantages over us. His superiority as it relates to time, especially associated with light, should also enable him to go from one place to another almost instantly. So the question is, has Satan, like Yahweh, seen our future by having gone there, and is he capable of traveling back in time, and if so, does Yah restrict what he is able to do in such cases as He did in the case of Job? We aren't told but my guess is yes in both circumstances but with considerable restrictions. Just because God cannot kill him, doesn't mean that He cannot control him. In fact, controlling messengers is central to their purpose and nature.

Satan is our adversary, but not Yahweh's. God and the Devil aren't at war with one another. Halal ben Shachar serves a very important role as it relates to our freewill and choice with regard to God. So, in a very real sense, Satan is still being used by God to make sure choice is genuine. This is why he will be released at the end of the Mellinnial Sabbath. The Devil serves a purpose, so long as he is limited in what he can and cannot do.

Satan's time is never "up," and the 1000 years of binding is from our reference, not his. Yahweh can incarcerate him and restrict him any way He wants, God just can't kill him because spirits are infinite in time.

Yada


I'm wondering if I understand Yada's position correctly? I understand the Adversary or any angelic / demonic Spiritual beings as differing from Yahuweh with respect to time in that Yah is uncreated and therefore eternal and self existent, while angels (fallen or otherwise) were created at some point in the past yet are immortal and unending. That is to my understanding only Yahweh is truly eternal even while lesser Spiritual entities are ancient and immortal.

Maybe you could visualize what I mean in terms of a number time line. Yahweh's existence could be represented by a true line with no end points. The angelic / demonic host could be represented by rays with a start point either early into or possibly predating the initiation of time-space. Human souls not born anew Spiritually from above or below like animal souls could be represented by short line segments overlapping somewhat each generations parents going back to a beginning pair. Human souls born anew Spiritually could be represented by these recent line segments intersecting Yahweh's unending line or one of the Adversary's rays.

Having witnessed humanity throughout our history and being able to travel in the material universe not to mention having encountered Yahweh directly would certainly give the Adversary and his allied demonic host considerable advantages when testing humanity, but I don't know that Scripture expressly indicates that they can maneuver into the future and back or would even need to in order to recognize their fate or human weaknesses and exploit these for testing purposes.
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